Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Reinhardt]

replace 3D models with 2D portraits

Yes.

 

[Grunker]

It's complete bullshit anyway. Solasta did reactions and it's literally a non-issue. If some tiny resourceless indiegame that looks like it was made for Windows ME can make a functional completely unintrusive Reaction-system, Larian can too. And it's one of the major features that makes 5E combat tick, so it's easily the gameplay feature I'm most frustrated bout them leaving out. I can't imagine it plays anywhere near as well without it.

Not sure why you call Solasta's version crude and unappealing. For all that game's faults I think the way it handles interface-design around reactions is nearly perfect.

 

[Larianshill]

It's complete bullshit anyway. Solasta did reactions and it's literally a non-issue.

I've seen some shitters on reddit complain about it, saying it "slowed down action" and was "unbearable". I think they might have ADHD.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

It's complete bullshit anyway. Solasta did reactions and it's literally a non-issue.

It IS an issue in the moment their solution is something Larian is actively trying to avoid.

 

[Grunker]

It's complete bullshit anyway. Solasta did reactions and it's literally a non-issue.

I've seen some shitters on reddit complain about it, saying it "slowed down action" and was "unbearable". I think they might have ADHD.

That's insanity. Even if you play as a paladin who gets a reaction prompt *on every single hit* it feels almost like double-clicking. It's that fast.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

It's complete bullshit anyway. Solasta did reactions and it's literally a non-issue.

I've seen some shitters on reddit complain about it, saying it "slowed down action" and was "unbearable". I think they might have ADHD.

I've seen similar claims (with a strong vibe of disdain on top, I might add) on the Larian discord channel.

Well, I've seen a lot of people being rabidly hostile toward Solasta for several reasons, more in general, but that point about "slowing the combat" and being tedious" was brought up several times.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Reporting to Swen that the codex is currently happy with the reaction system as implemented.

 

[Grunker]

I don't even like Solasta. Wrote a mini-review in the Solasta thread. It's a game with tons of good systems that falls apart completely because of lacking difficulty and horrid encounter- and enemy design.

But the way the game handles reactions is very nifty, because it acts as an instant counter-proof to anyone claiming those can't be implemented well in a video game.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I've been thinking about the issue with the current reaction system in the game for a while, the fact that Larian doesn't want interruptions/pop-ups because they consider it "disruptive to the continuity of the action" or something (which is a bit bizarre in a turn-based game where the alternative at interjecting the combat with your actions is... to watch NPCs move on their own for a while, if you ask me).

I've came to the conclusion that this is probably a matter of presentation more than mechanics for Larian. To be more explicit, I think that what they think is more or less: if we are going to implement reactions, they need to look "sleek and cinematic" in line with the rest of the game rather than just being a crude and unappealing "YES OR NO" pop-up over-impressed on the screen on a regular basis, like in Solasta.

I'm honestly not sure how I'd solve this. I've been trying to imagine some compromising ways they can give the players reaction in a more involved manner and "make it look good for the casual player", so to speak.
A very quick camera close-up and slow down before prompting you for confirmation? Offering a short time window like a QTE rather than literally pausing the game?
I'm not really sure what could work without being an even worse problem than the half-baked automated reactions we have now.

I've been mostly thinking about how XCOM 2, which is probably the current pinnacle of "triple A production value" when it comes to a turn-based tactical, would manage this.
That game has ONE type of reaction that is not automated, and it's a skirmisher skill that simply gives you a "micro-turn inside the enemy turn" instead of an ordinary automated overwatch. But even that is not an exact match, because that's about doing whatever you want with that action, while reactions in D&D are about confirming a specific type of attack on a predefined target.
And then when I was voicing my doubts on the official forum someone suggested as reference the "Breach mechanic" in Chimera Squad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UirMOn9RpXo&t=44s (0:44 if the timestamp doesn't work for some reason).

You know what? It could actually work as a compromise.
Zoom-in with slow-mo on the enemy doing his thing (moving away for AoO, casting for counter-spell, etc), on the player side offer something intuitive like "Left click to confirm your reaction, right click to skip it", make the whole thing quick and snappy enough to not be overly tedious over multiple times.
We would get what we want, which is some more involved reaction system that goes beyond an automated response with a toggle, and Larian could salvage the pretense of maintaining a sleek, mostly-seamless cinematic presentation without those "pesky text pop-up for nerds".

P.S. I know some of you autistics would suggest to just disable all animations, period, replace 3D models with 2D portraits and increase the speed of everything 10X, but let's be fucking real, please.

I'd basically put in a system that allowed a choice on whether to take the reaction or not, but also add a toggle option that defaults to keeping the system off which keeps things as they are now. That way both rules purists and moviefags are happy.

 

[Anonona]

I've been thinking about the issue with the current reaction system in the game for a while, the fact that Larian doesn't want interruptions/pop-ups because they consider it "disruptive to the continuity of the action" or something (which is a bit bizarre in a turn-based game where the alternative at interjecting the combat with your actions is... to watch NPCs move on their own for a while, if you ask me).

I've came to the conclusion that this is probably a matter of presentation more than mechanics for Larian. To be more explicit, I think that what they think is more or less: if we are going to implement reactions, they need to look "sleek and cinematic" in line with the rest of the game rather than just being a crude and unappealing "YES OR NO" pop-up over-impressed on the screen on a regular basis, like in Solasta.

I think you may be partially right, but I would say the issue is probably multiplayer. Most likely they don't want to slow down the game even more when there are multiple players. Seeing the "simultaneous" turn mechanic included in the game, I think this may be the real reason. I would go as far as to say that even the chain system is probably there for multiplayer, so players can make their own "small parties" of what characters they are going to control, similar to the DoS games. You could even "break" the party and "declare war" to the other players and fight them whenever in DoS 2, which I don't really know why would anyone want to do that, but you could. Another option they could have gone with are timed turns or timed pop-up windows to force players to think fast, but I don't think it would be inline with Larian design philosophy.

 

[Jaska]

You could just keep it like it is and allow options for the player. You could have it as a option that certain reactions will get prompted and some don't. Most important thing would be for Larian to allow the player to design macros on when the reaction happens automatically. Like set paladin to smite only if you crit, the enemy would live after that and it's a sufficiently high "level" enemy. That should please everybody me thinks. Casuals wouldn't even notice the system and people who want to fine tune things could design and automate some parts of it, while manually clicking on others. Obviously it won't happen, but it's a dream I have.

If we can't design when the automation happens, then the system should just manually prompt us.

 

[Grunker]

You could have it as a option that certain reactions will get prompted and some don't

you mean like Blood Bowl and almost every other competitive tactical 1v1 games do? sounds impossible to implement tbh

 

[Ontopoly]

I listened to Swen talk at a GDC expecting to hate him, his reasons, and everything else he says. I ended up realizing he really does have no idea what he's doing. He tries some things out not really knowing what the outcome will be. He's unsure of himself, making things up as he goes, making dumb decisions, taking risks; and instead of hating him more, learning that my first impression was right makes me a little bit more sympathetic. Who am I to judge him when he's just trying to figure out what works and what doesn't, similar to how I'm figuring out things myself? I would certainly hate him more if he was sure of himself in the decisions he makes, but I understand how some of his bad decisions came to be. I won't be playing the game because it's obvious we have two different philosophy when it comes to gaming, and the game definitely should not have been called bg3, but I'm definitely less passionate about hating him now.

A bad game is less offensive than an artist with no game.

 

[Saravan]

Day 430.

Dear diary,

Today Swen made me feel things. It's a strange sensation in the nether regions. I think I might be gay for him. Tonight I will explore this feeling further.

 

[Quillon]

Random question: Anybody tried to kill the hag when she was serving food at the grove? Do everyone around turn hostile? If killed what happens to that quest in the swamp?

 

[The_Mask]

I listened to Swen talk at a GDC expecting to hate him, his reasons, and everything else he says. I ended up realizing he really does have no idea what he's doing. He tries some things out not really knowing what the outcome will be. He's unsure of himself, making things up as he goes, making dumb decisions, taking risks; and instead of hating him more, learning that my first impression was right makes me a little bit more sympathetic. Who am I to judge him when he's just trying to figure out what works and what doesn't, similar to how I'm figuring out things myself? I would certainly hate him more if he was sure of himself in the decisions he makes, but I understand how some of his bad decisions came to be. I won't be playing the game because it's obvious we have two different philosophy when it comes to gaming, and the game definitely should not have been called bg3, but I'm definitely less passionate about hating him now.

A bad game is less offensive than an artist with no game.

At least Swen is using the money he gets out of his RPGs to make other RPGs, and even if some things suck about his game(s), he's, at least, a white male in his prime, providing jobs for other people, while not giving up the dream of making "a better RPG next time".

There was nothing to hate about him in the first place. And the best thing you can do is provide him with honest and accurate feedback. Very simple.

 

[Wulfric Pinewood]

So... this is crpg, where is map for BG3?

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Well, we had a short honeymoon with the last patch about the marginal improvement introduced, but it's time to back to some relentless bitching.

I have to say that another thing of the game that is genuinely starting to grind on my nerves is how Larian is almost regularly disregarding the canonical stats/abilities for the monsters they are using.

Some get buffed with powers they shouldn't have, some get nerfed significantly, lose special powers, don't show any sign of their typical resistances or immunities, etc.
This is happening over and over across the entire portion of the game available so far. Phase spiders that are gifted ranged AOE venom spit when they should just attack in melee (which is two times as bizarre, given that D&D DOES offer spiders that canonically have ranged attacks), Minotaurs that don't "charge" in a straight line but do hulk jumping and ground stomping instead, mud mephits and wood woads gimped to the point of being husks of what they were supposed to be, etc.

It feels almost like people at Larian after negotiating and getting the official D&D license one morning woke up decided that they feel only contempt and disdain for it. "Fuck this shit, we'll do our own bestiary" or something.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Human barbarian is an interesting option,

Ah, you're an individual of discerning taste I see.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Human barbarian is an interesting option,

Ah, you're an individual of discerning taste I see.

Doesn't compute with their avatar.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Human barbarian is an interesting option,

Ah, you're an individual of discerning taste I see.

Doesn't compute with their avatar.

That's ok I can't compute either.

 

[Reinhardt]

Human barbarian is an interesting option,

Ah, you're an individual of discerning taste I see.

Doesn't compute with their avatar.

Fuck off, niggerching-chong! Launched ddo today on my barbarian bank character to get some favor for more bags and had a blast. Barbarians are good civilization! Slash! Advance! Slash! Advance!

 

[Grunker]

truly that is best in life

 

[Slaver1]

Like a neurotic Californian couple asking their infant what gender it thinks it is, posters on this thread are always trying to steer BG 3 into being different from the current form it holds.

This suggests a deep and widespread disaffection about the game from everyone who seems to be playing it. Meanwhile they enjoy taking snide shots at Pathfinder 2, a game whose thread marches at breakneck pace with discussion chock full about already existing systems and the mind boggling array of options it offers the player.

 

[Reinhardt]

Pathfinder 2, a game whose thread marches at breakneck pace with discussion chock full about

what most recent patch broke.