Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Early Access Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

whydoibother

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
17,690
Location
bulgaristan
Codex Year of the Donut
What HP bloat are we talking about here? I've played through Act I before the druid patch, and the only encounter that dragged on a bit was a spider that kept teleporting in an arena with verticality and shadows, and that was the whole point of that fight. It was attritional.
I don't remember any HP bloat, or any time I had to beat an enemy like a piñata to down it.
 

Shrimp

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
1,071
What HP bloat are we talking about here? I've played through Act I before the druid patch, and the only encounter that dragged on a bit was a spider that kept teleporting in an arena with verticality and shadows, and that was the whole point of that fight. It was attritional.
I don't remember any HP bloat, or any time I had to beat an enemy like a piñata to down it.
I can't guarantee it's what's being referenced here when people talk about HP bloat, but I remember fairly early on shortly after the launch of the EA version there were some discussions about some changes Larian had made to goblins' stats.
5e manual goblins have lower health but higher AC compared to Larian goblins which have higher health and lower AC, likely a result of their/Swen's video game philosophy that no one likes missing hits. I remember seeing some more well-rounded arguments using hit averages based around the fact that the higher health meant the player was less likely to OHKO enemies that typically are used as cannon fodder. Unfortunately that's just about all I remember from those discussions and I have no idea if the same types of stat adjustments also exist elsewhere in the game.
 

Swen

Scholar
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
2,279
Location
Belgium, Ghent
What HP bloat are we talking about here? I've played through Act I before the druid patch, and the only encounter that dragged on a bit was a spider that kept teleporting in an arena with verticality and shadows, and that was the whole point of that fight. It was attritional.
I don't remember any HP bloat, or any time I had to beat an enemy like a piñata to down it.
Did you know I love Bulgaria?
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
17,267
Location
Frostfell
likely a result of their/Swen's video game philosophy that no one likes missing hits.

When I was playing Temple of Elemental Evil(the turn based D&D cRPG, not the P&P module), I decided to not re roll or re save scum so I had a sorc with 7 DEX which once he ran out of spells, he failed 27 times to hit with his crossbow. In 3.5E makes sense, half BAB and -2 DEX mod means that your accuracy will gonna be trash.

As for Lethality, I still remember my first death in Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager. I had to climb a Zigguratt full of defilers(mages) with nasty traps, so I buffed a lot my half giant gladiator and gave to him a very powerful magical weapon which can cast disintegrate when hit a enemy(and 2E disintegrate, not the ultra nerfed 5E disintegrate), he killed 2 defilers in a single turn and then in the next turn, one of the defiler dominated on him and he killed my two casters in a single turn and almost killed my other fighter.

This type of cool and unique situations can't happen in BG3.
 

Sharpedge

Prophet
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,061
What HP bloat are we talking about here? I've played through Act I before the druid patch, and the only encounter that dragged on a bit was a spider that kept teleporting in an arena with verticality and shadows, and that was the whole point of that fight. It was attritional.
I don't remember any HP bloat, or any time I had to beat an enemy like a piñata to down it.
I can't guarantee it's what's being referenced here when people talk about HP bloat, but I remember fairly early on shortly after the launch of the EA version there were some discussions about some changes Larian had made to goblins' stats.
5e manual goblins have lower health but higher AC compared to Larian goblins which have higher health and lower AC, likely a result of their/Swen's video game philosophy that no one likes missing hits. I remember seeing some more well-rounded arguments using hit averages based around the fact that the higher health meant the player was less likely to OHKO enemies that typically are used as cannon fodder. Unfortunately that's just about all I remember from those discussions and I have no idea if the same types of stat adjustments also exist elsewhere in the game.
They changed enemy attributes to reflect those of the MM so any arguments along those lines are asinine, unless you want to argue that monsters in the MM have too much HP as well, in which case you are just asking for the game to be made easier. Not that that particular argument had much weight to begin with even when enemies did have more HP than the MM, because nobody that was arguing that enemies had bloated HP bothered to provide a useful definition for what constitutes as bloated HP to begin with. Pretty much the only fight in the entire EA which can take up a significant amount of time is the woad demons at the tree in the swamp and that isn't because they have a large amount of HP, its because they have shitty AI and each spend over 1 minute trying to decide what to do during their turn which results in them taking forever to do anything.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
30,045
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
There are a huge difference. Monks made the vow of poverty and follow it. Commies wanna everyone else to make vow of poverty while the great leader and his friends live in absolute luxury.
Don't get bogged down by details.
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
2,394
Location
Milan, Italy
They changed enemy attributes to reflect those of the MM so any arguments along those lines are asinine, unless you want to argue that monsters in the MM have too much HP as well, in which case you are just asking for the game to be made easier. Not that that particular argument had much weight to begin with even when enemies did have more HP than the MM, because nobody that was arguing that enemies had bloated HP bothered to provide a useful definition for what constitutes as bloated HP to begin with. Pretty much the only fight in the entire EA which can take up a significant amount of time is the woad demons at the tree in the swamp and that isn't because they have a large amount of HP, its because they have shitty AI and each spend over 1 minute trying to decide what to do during their turn which results in them taking forever to do anything.
There have been instances of goblin having "inflated HP" (and we are still talking about something of MARGINAL degree compared to some of the insane shit you can spot in Wrath of the Righteous, to be clear) but a lot of it has been scaled down already.
Not to mention that it was never an unilateral issue. In fact there have been episodes of the opposite, with ALLEGEDLY strong enemies implemented in a nerfed format.

Larian is still taking some questionable license with the bestiary (i.e. Phase spiders are supposed to "ambush" you and fight only in melee, not to teleport around and spit AOE from range; minotaurs are supposed to hit hard and charge in a straight line, not to do the HULK singnature "landing with a smash", etc) but "HP BLOAT EVERYWHERE" as a design guideline is not really an ongoing issue outside

Incidentally I just had that swamp fight you are talking about yesterday in the last patch and it took me something like three minutes top, from start to end.
And the goblin fight in their camp that Victor keeps complaining about "taking hours" becomes SIGNIFICANTLY shorter if you make at least a half assed-attempt to not be an idiot and lower their numbers beforehand with few stratagems (i.e. poisoning their beer, fighting the few isolated groups separately, etc, etc) rather than charging the whole settlement face-on like a moron. Not to mention it's an entirely optional fight to begin with, so you aren't exactly forced into it.
 
Last edited:

Larianshill

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
2,133
I'm happy to report that if you slaughter the Druid Grove before being told to do it in the evil path, it doesn't break the game anymore. The game registers that you've already done it, skips the battle, places the quest giver NPC in the appropriate location and compliments you on your bloodthirst.
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
2,394
Location
Milan, Italy
Posted this on the Larian forum, but since it's not like we have much else to talk about I may as well share it here, so I can (eventually) hear some other opinion on these things:
____________________________

Playing through Grymforge highlights so many problems with Ui and controls.

Well, I guess the title gives you a solid hint of what direction this will take.
I'll also throw a bit of generic feedback about minor things I noticed in the process.

As a premise, after an initial attempt I mostly ignored Patch 6 until just days before Patch 7 launched (I just wasn't interested enough to the stuff it introduced) and as a consequence I experienced Grymforge for the first time through both patches in the span of the last few days.

Let's start with the good: it's a gorgeous, very well made new area with plenty to explore.

Now the bad: the way some of the key areas (and the "final boss fight") are designed is an almost tragic mismatch between how much micro-management and party-splitting is generally required (or let's say "strongly advised") and how utterly painful the game tries to make that playstyle in practice.
Move characters through trapped environment (where they may also get ambushed by enemies at any given moment, so be ready to move others too when needed) split your group to operate levers and mobile catwalks, jump, climb, use featherfall or misty step, etc, etc.

The final boss in particular (that I have to admit I liked in principle, despise not being exactly the most standard "D&D-like experience" out there) highlights how terrible the current reaction system can be, not to mention it makes the absence of ready actions more annoying than ever.
Before finally dispatching said boss for good I experienced several cases where an autoattack/reaction triggered when I was trying to lure the golem in a specific direction, usually with consequent outcomes that forced me to a reload.
It's also worth noting that one downside of "new shiny UI" introduced in Patch 7 is that it makes circling between ALL your characters, selecting the "Passive" submenu and disabling their Attacks of Opportunity even more cumbersome than before.
And it's not even a "one and done" thing, since there are moments during the same battle where you DO want to take these juicy AoO, while in others you definitely don't, so it's a constant "cycling and switching toggles" that becomes annoying fairly quickly and makes me chuckle a bit when I think about the people (a minority, admittedly) that in the past months said "they would hate a Solasta-like reaction system with quick case-by-case confirmations because it would slow down the combat".

In one of my attempts, I also experienced a fight where I won but I had my party wiped seconds later, since the game went back to real time and every companion had the SPLENDID idea to improvise a cheerful stroll in a pool of lava in an attempt to RUSH toward the character I had selected in the moment the boss died. I had to reload once again and remember to UNCHAIN the goddamn entire party as soon as the fight started, so "Thanks again, toilet chain" I guess?

And now a passing comment on a minor detail I noticed across the entire build:
what the hell is going on with a lot of NPCs now having these random-ass and not-particularly-lore-friendly shitty facial tattoos as if every one of them was designed by a bunch of DeviantArt rejects?
Can we go back to designing NPCs that have a sensible and well-put together look, fitting with their role in the story, status, class and race?
Adding arbitrary details on top doesn't make them better, it just makes them more "busy". Leave the weird abominations to the players in these "Post your own character" threads all over the internet.
________________________________________________
 
Last edited:

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
30,045
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Adding arbitrary details on top doesn't make them better, it just makes them more "busy". Leave the weird abominations to the players in these "Post your own character" threads all over the internet.
That sounds like they are trying to make it easier for all these dudes to be told apart from one another.
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
2,394
Location
Milan, Italy
Adding arbitrary details on top doesn't make them better, it just makes them more "busy". Leave the weird abominations to the players in these "Post your own character" threads all over the internet.
That sounds like they are trying to make it easier for all these dudes to be told apart from one another.
Well, if that's the case I can only hope they are using placeholders, because adding random-ass tattoos to every underdwarf a five miles radius without a single care for the fact that they are for the most part stylistically mismatched seems like a fairly BAD way to go about it.
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
2,394
Location
Milan, Italy
More random thoughts, since I'm in a sharing mood.

The more I play EA over the patches, the more puzzled I get about the fact that we have countless potential camping spots already existing on the world map.
They would make a "contextual" camping system à-la Solasta perfectly viable with minor adjustments, and it feels almost like part of the team was placing these specifically to make it a point with the rest of the production.

But Larian decided to go for these instanced pocket-dimension camps that are potentially a lot more work to be included in and that even with all the effort in the world to give us dozens of different ones will NEVER overcome that weird disconnect in immersion they will have over something that feels "naturally" integrated into the scenario.

Funnily enough I was thinking that a case where NOT having an instanced camp would be an issue would be that tiefling (lousy) celebration party. And then it hit me:
it doesn't really make any fucking sense that a whole caravan of wandering tieflings would leave the druid grove to come "celebrate" their victory at your improvised campfire in the wilds...
 

017

Novice
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
47
Moving through these last few pages, seeing BG3 getting hate from weebs and BG2 drones is really satisfying. Quite an indicator that this game will, at the very least, be good. Big incline. Based Swen filtering trash once again.
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
2,394
Location
Milan, Italy
Moving through these last few pages, seeing BG3 getting hate from weebs and BG2 drones is really satisfying. Quite an indicator that this game will, at the very least, be good. Big incline. Based Swen filtering trash once again.
You can go to be an idiot on reddit with the rest of the adoring fan club, honestly.

We are arguing pros and cons. If you think that's "hate" you are delusional, but that's just your problem.
 

CodexTotalWar

Learned
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
121
There has been some small but nice undocumented changes in the latest patch

1) Darkness + Devil sight now works - you can see and shoot out of it with advantage. Though it's not as cheeseable as PnP since you can't make the darkness move with you.

2) Fear mechanics seems to be working closer to PnP now - so Menacing attack is no longer OP

3) The dialogue log now uses actually FR calendar dates instead of just "Day X", small, but it gives you a sense of time now - i.e. we know the game is taking place mid-summer
 

017

Novice
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
47
Moving through these last few pages, seeing BG3 getting hate from weebs and BG2 drones is really satisfying. Quite an indicator that this game will, at the very least, be good. Big incline. Based Swen filtering trash once again.
You can go to be an idiot on reddit with the rest of the adoring fan club, honestly.

We are arguing pros and cons. If you think that's "hate" you are delusional, but that's just your problem.
Gonna cry? Unless you feel like you were targeted by my comment, which you weren't, I refuse to believe that you're genuinely convinced that a selection of edgelords and degenerates (like Sunri, to name just one of them - absolutely disgusting, really embarrassing) in here is "arguing pros and cons". It's a Larian thread after all.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
17,267
Location
Frostfell
, I refuse to believe that you're genuinely convinced that a selection of edgelords and degenerates (like Sunri, to name just one of them - absolutely disgusting, really embarrassing) in here is "arguing pros and cons". It's a Larian thread after all.

So lets argue the pros and cons from the last panel from hell.
Pros :
  • Barb
  • Throwing stuff
Cons:
  • Everything else.
 

Sharpedge

Prophet
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,061
, I refuse to believe that you're genuinely convinced that a selection of edgelords and degenerates (like Sunri, to name just one of them - absolutely disgusting, really embarrassing) in here is "arguing pros and cons". It's a Larian thread after all.

So lets argue the pros and cons from the last panel from hell.
Pros :
  • Barb
  • Throwing stuff
Cons:
  • Everything else.
If you consider the changes to UI to be a con in comparison to the UI which existed before then...
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
17,267
Location
Frostfell
, I refuse to believe that you're genuinely convinced that a selection of edgelords and degenerates (like Sunri, to name just one of them - absolutely disgusting, really embarrassing) in here is "arguing pros and cons". It's a Larian thread after all.

So lets argue the pros and cons from the last panel from hell.
Pros :
  • Barb
  • Throwing stuff
Cons:
  • Everything else.
If you consider the changes to UI to be a con in comparison to the UI which existed before then...

Yep. The UI improved a lot. Fells more like a UI for a 5E game instead of a UI for a DOS game.
 

Swen

Scholar
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
2,279
Location
Belgium, Ghent
, I refuse to believe that you're genuinely convinced that a selection of edgelords and degenerates (like Sunri, to name just one of them - absolutely disgusting, really embarrassing) in here is "arguing pros and cons". It's a Larian thread after all.

So lets argue the pros and cons from the last panel from hell.
Pros :
  • Barb
  • Throwing stuff
Cons:
  • Everything else.
My BG2:EE solo run on Legacy of Bhaal difficulty

I thought you only played the original version Victor?

Friendly reminder:

kVC8mP2.png


Lol at this old boomer garbage
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom