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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

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Codex Year of the Donut
So the only thing rusty_shackleford is basing his point on is that you must literally do artistic gymnastics in armor to have any chance of avoiding a blow from a blunt weapon, and since that would be too fatiguing, people in armor just stood in one place and took all the hits. This is one of the more remarkably nonsensical positions I've read on the internet.
No, I'm saying that AC is a bad abstraction and retards who worship D&D will defend it because everything D&D is the greatest thing ever made.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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Oh yeah plate armor is bad and you're not mobile in it at all meme... There is such thing as footwork mate, it's not matrix dodge but even sidestep can make opponent blow just graze or miss you.
Plate armour weighs about as much as a modern soldier's harness. 40-60 lb. Given that modern soldiers can run in the damned things, it is an old and tired myth that plate armoured knights are like turtles on their back.
https://www.livescience.com/15128-armor-drained-medieval-knight-energy.html
A new study that put armor-wearing volunteers on treadmills finds that wearing a full suit of armor (which might weigh up to 110 pounds, or 50 kilograms), takes more than twice the energy of walking around unencumbered. Even lugging around a backpack of equal weight is less energy-intensive than wearing armor, the study found, because wearing 17 pounds (8 kg) of steel plates on each leg requires no small amount of extra exertion.

Jeesus.

So many misconceptions and absolutes here. First of all, armour is not magic. Plate armour doubly not magic. There is a modern stupidy about that you can do athletic stuff in it. Sure you can. For about 5 minutes. Do you know how much long battles actually last? Good. Secondly, most people can not afford full plate in medieval times. Only the elite can even in a well organized military endeavour. Most would be wearing gambeson.

Also, swords are not only sharp or pointed objects. They have weight. There are at least three well-known ways in medieval literature to apply blunt damage with them. Blunt damage is "reduced" by armour, so is cutting and piercing damage. So damage reduction is a perfectly good way to represent armour. On top of that, you can add bonuses like well fitting, lightened etc to represent a gain in mobility due to better craftsmanship. But that is of course special.

Finally, swords are not meme weapons. Swords are fucking terrible in the right hands. Especially in a organized formation, short swords are havoc due to thrusting attacks, that are fast and can be done by mass infantry. How do you think the Romans beat the Macedonian sarissas? It was Javelins and short swords.
Finally somebody that knows some shit about the topic.....and it is not lazy enough to write about it.
:excellent:

Tho being expensive is not the matter,as it could be expensive in the game too,Kingdom Come as example. The agility part is not to be sustained but to show that in combat you will be able to dodge shit,and yeah,i noticed that they are using very expensive plate armour that most soldier wouldn't be able to afford. Still it shows that they are not walking trees :).
Plate armour in the end is pretty heavy and a capable general could use it against the enemy. Good example is one of our Tzars,Tzar Kaloian that lured a bunch of arrogant knights in a swamp area and fuck them up good. It was during the times of the Latin "Empire",the fucks fucked with the wrong people. Even got their "emperor" as a trophy.
 

Cael

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So the only thing rusty_shackleford is basing his point on is that you must literally do artistic gymnastics in armor to have any chance of avoiding a blow from a blunt weapon, and since that would be too fatiguing, people in armor just stood in one place and took all the hits. This is one of the more remarkably nonsensical positions I've read on the internet.
No, I'm saying that AC is a bad abstraction and retards who worship D&D will defend it because everything D&D is the greatest thing ever made.
No. They are saying what Gygax himself said about the system he helped create: Everything is an abstraction. The number of attacks you get is an abstraction, AC is an abstraction, HP is an abstraction.

They are not defending so much as correcting your deliberate fake news.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Codex Year of the Donut
So the only thing rusty_shackleford is basing his point on is that you must literally do artistic gymnastics in armor to have any chance of avoiding a blow from a blunt weapon, and since that would be too fatiguing, people in armor just stood in one place and took all the hits. This is one of the more remarkably nonsensical positions I've read on the internet.
No, I'm saying that AC is a bad abstraction and retards who worship D&D will defend it because everything D&D is the greatest thing ever made.
No. They are saying what Gygax himself said about the system he helped create: Everything is an abstraction. The number of attacks you get is an abstraction, AC is an abstraction, HP is an abstraction.

They are not defending so much as correcting your deliberate fake news.
Except Gygax explicitly endorsed the point I'm making in the original AD&D
N1LA7VT.png


This is when the 'class' part of 'armor class' actually meant something, the adjustment was done before modifiers.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Ahhh typical americantard. I hate to break it to you,but the computer is invented by a Bulgarian.
:smug:
Yes, a "Bulgarian" who was born in New York to an American mother, whose name was John Vincent, who visited Bulgaria only twice in his entire life, and who was assisted by one of his students, that's why the computer is called the Atanasoff-Berry computer.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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Ahhh typical americantard. I hate to break it to you,but the computer is invented by a Bulgarian.
:smug:
Yes, a "Bulgarian" who was born in New York to an American mother, whose name was John Vincent, and he was assisted by one of his students, that's why the computer is called the Atanasoff-Berry computer.
:hmmm:
You really don't know when to shut up and let the american get butthurt by that garbage. You really must be shit at social events,constantly butting in and trying to explain the joke to people.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I just get extremely triggered when Bulgarians claim literally foreigners with achievements to be Bulgarian, all the while we have perfectly good examples of Bulgarians with achievements who are actually Bulgarian. It's a pet peeve of mine. Another golden example I hate is the saints Cyril and Methodius.
 

Efe

Erudite
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and of course infinitron will keep this shit here and split gameplay posts to retardoland
 

AwesomeButton

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
This thread is trying to match the level of dumb the game will reach or what?
Don't know about game (because we STILL don't have any footage of gameplay, ffs), but people here definitely compete with each others in "special" Olympics. I think it's safe to say that thread derailed completely at this point.
Here is a question - what is your guess, why don't we have any footage, or even any verbal description of the gameplay yet?
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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I just get extremely triggered when Bulgarians claim literally foreigners with achievements to be Bulgarian, all the while we have perfectly good examples of Bulgarians with achievements who are actually Bulgarian. It's a pet peeve of mine. Another golden example I hate is the saints Cyril and Methodius.
:argh:
I am the same,still i do swallow my pride if it is going to butthurt the americantard. Geee you are really bad at reading the situation :).


This thread is trying to match the level of dumb the game will reach or what?
Ahhh,at least something fun to come from this game.
 

Lutte

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Ahahahah, this thread earned my first tag after more than a decade of being on the dex and multi-alt account making (I don't count the one that got safe spaced.. which happened retroactively months after I had already stopped logging). What a hill to die on, news jew.
 

ColonelTeacup

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Ahahahah, this thread earned my first tag after more than a decade of being on the dex and multi-alt account making (I don't count the one that got safe spaced.. which happened retroactively months after I had already stopped logging). What a hill to die on, news jew.
Congratulations on your first true title, lutte.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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Ahahahah, this thread earned my first tag after more than a decade of being on the dex and multi-alt account making (I don't count the one that got safe spaced.. which happened retroactively months after I had already stopped logging). What a hill to die on, news jew.

Was there a particular post that precipitated the awarding of your unflattering tag?
 

Rinslin Merwind

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Here is a question - what is your guess, why don't we have any footage, or even any verbal description of the gameplay yet?
I don't live in Belgium and my name isn't Swen and surname isn't Vincke, so I can only guessing why exactly there is no gameplay revealed.
Hovewer, I have several theories about this and right now my main theory is plain and simple - they started to work on game only after E3 and did not produced anything yet.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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they started to work on game only after E3 and did not produced anything yet.
This doesn't make for a good explanation though. The fact they haven't produced anything doesn't necessarily mean they don't know what they will be producing yet. On the contrary, we often get hints that they know the answer to the gameplay question, but they are deliberately hiding it. Why would they possibly hold back? Other companies have announced RPGs years before release and have been open about the gameplay. What makes Larian want to postpone revealing this?
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
The rumor that they've been working on BG3 was spread quite a while ago, so no, they've been working on it for quite some time.


Why would they possibly hold back? Other companies have announced RPGs years before release and have been open about the gameplay. What makes Larian want to postpone revealing this?

Trying to garner new audience because they know the only people who are interested in BG3 at this time are fans of BG already, and they know the reveal of the combat system is going to cause a shitstorm on every forum, social media platform and YouTube video. In this context, the combat system might be TB and they are only hiding it because it isn't RTwP, but that's hilariously optimistic, and that's excluding the fans of TB they already have.
 

Corvinus

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Goodluck convincing people that think D&D is the greatest creation ever invented by mankind of this

That is unlikely to happen, of course. And I'm sure that even though anything of substance isn't yet available, BG3 will cater to the mentally destitute masses - meaning that it will be a worse game than the originals. With a little luck we may at least be spared the political shoehorning of including faggots and worse however. But I digress. What I wanted to say was the following, which I didn't get myself, until I played the original D&D:

The D&D rules are deeply unrealistic if you go by the standards of what is assumed today, which means mid to high level play, double to triple digit HP, etc.

HOWEVER.

D%26d_Box1st.jpg


If played as originally concieved, with a competent GM, I'd say that the rules are abstract but realistic. Meaning that for most of the time, you will be level 1. "Everyone" is level 1 and have about 1d6 HP. Few survive long enough to reach level 2, and even fewer exist beyond that. Usually, someone with three hit dice or more is considered heroic, as are opponents! Veteran troops who've seen too much of war already would be level 2. Someone on on a forum I frequented had, by the spells he casted in the books, concluded that Gandalf was no more than level 5! Going from the First Blood appearance alone, I'd speculate that Rambo is below that, maybe level 3 or 4, considering his long combat experience. This is of course the reason that most humanoid monsters are classless, single hit die types (id est a typical specimen of that kind). Being level 1 isn't bad, it's average!

Let that sink in a little, ...and then consider the terror of going up against the lowly ogre, which has 4 HD and dish out 3-8 points of damage per hit. And to make things worse, he is usually not alone, since they tend to congregate in small packs of only 1-8 individuals! A vampire is a supernatural horror, typically of 8 HD, which cannot be harmed with mundane weapons such as axes, flintlocks or the mighty .223 BOZAR, and still regenerates 3 HP per turn if injured somehow. Good luck. Dark Souls is for nu-male hipsters.

The armour system (AC) is also worth mentioning. In an average unarmoured swordfight between two humans, each opponent has 50% of scoring a hit which in turn has a 50% of being lethal (assuming 1D6 damage and HP, respectively - zero HP means no longer combat effective / dead).
Wearing padded or "leather" armour sets your Armour Class to 7, mail to 5 and plate to 3. Meaning that the chance of remaining unscathed, per turn (which might be up to a minute long), is increased to 60%, 70%, or 80%. It all sounds reasonable to me.

Now, the inflation of level and HD is there from the beggining (when Gygax & Co. went out of the picture?), more or less. The early Forgotten Realms have level 10 town mayors for example, which is crazy and very lazy when taking the above into consideration. Good GM's can do other things when important NPC's gets murdered by the PC's. Consequences!

So, what does all of this come down to?

1.) The original D&D system is vastly superior the the latter versions and inherently much more realistic, as there should be no HP bloat to talk about, if the GM is competent.

2.) HP bloat, being of low level is bad, missing is "bad design" - all of that stems from the assumption that D&D is for mid to high level play, when it wasn't originally.

3.) Would a low level CRPG campaign with D&D rules be fun and relatively tactical? Yes! For the average nu-male hipster C"RPG" gamer who is unable to comprehend basic probability and expects to win despite of sucking? Not so much.

4.) Would the above campaign be as good in computer format as PnP? Unlikely. Much of the enjoyment comes from the GM's skill at describing things, at least to me. First person shooting / fighting and these rules isn't ideal. Isometric would be the way to go.


TLDR; If they go the first or third person over shoulder routes they should probably alter the ruleset or do something else altogether. Isometric route? Please keep it, even if the PnP experience with these rules is superior.
 
Last edited:

Curratum

Guest
Here is a question - what is your guess, why don't we have any footage, or even any verbal description of the gameplay yet?
I don't live in Belgium and my name isn't Swen and surname isn't Vincke, so I can only guessing why exactly there is no gameplay revealed.
Hovewer, I have several theories about this and right now my main theory is plain and simple - they started to work on game only after E3 and did not produced anything yet.

Still doesn't stop them from mentioning how the game is designed in terms of perspective and fundamental gameplay.

I'm not saying it will be over the shoulder, I'm just saying I can almost understand why people decide to let their autism run rampant and post dumb shit about how it's going to be over the shoulder.
 

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