Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[The_Mask]

Deep Gnome and Duergar aren't core races, they were added in supplements.

Are you saying Lilura's "write-ups" have misinformation in them?

 

[sullynathan]

Imagine when the game comes out and you're all wrong

Spoiler

 

[Saerain]

Hey, that article confirmed you'll be able to control your party so it looks like it'll be more Dragon Age Inquisition than Dragon's Dogma.

In other news, I popped on over to Lilura's blog and learned how 5e removed stat penalties from races

Dragonborn
◦ Strength +2, Charisma +1, Draconic Ancestry, Breath Weapon, Damage Resistance.
• Dwarf
◦ Constitution +2, Darkvision, Dwarven Resilience, Dwarven Combat Training, Stonecunning
◦ Sub-races: Hill Dwarf, Mountain Dwarf, Duergar.
• Elf
◦ Dexterity +2, Darkvision, Keen Senses, Fey Ancenstry, Trance
◦ Sub-races: High Elf, Wood Elf, Dark Elf (Drow)
• Gnome
◦ Intelligence +2, Darkvision, Gnome Cunning
◦ Sub-races: Forest Gnome, Rock Gnome, Deep Gnome (Svirfneblin)
• Half-Elf
◦ Charisma +2, Two other ability scores +1, Darkvision, Fey Ancestry, Skill Versatility
• Half-Orc
◦ Strength +2, Constitution +1, Darkvision, Menacing, Relentless Endurance, Savage Attacks
• Halfling
◦ Dexterity +2, Lucky, Brave, Halfling Nimbleness
◦ Sub-races: Lightfoot, Stout
• Human
◦ All ability scores +1, Extra Language
• Tiefling
◦ Charisma +2, Intelligence +1, Darkvision, Hellish Resistance, Infernal Legacy

If you think half-orcs can't be just as smart and halflings and gnomes can't be just as strong as any other race then you are a bigot. Pillars of Eternity had stat penalties, so this makes Josh Sawyer more of a race realist than the 5e guys (insert FreeKaner meme here).

Yeah, that's been gone for longer than just 5e.

But I don't see the functional difference, just presentational. Half-orcs do have a penalty relative to gnomes, tieflings, humans, and high elves. Gnomes do have a penalty relative to dragonborn, dwarves, half-orcs, and humans...

 

[jf8350143]

The way I think the co-op will work:You will have your normal companions and you control them. When somebody joins your game they will be play as "another adventurer" instead of your companions.

It's pretty much a combination of DOS 1 and DOS 2.

 

[jf8350143]

Remember that feeling of gradually getting more powerful as a melee character in BG1? Finding that first +1 sword that didn't break (they put weapons in that broke Sven), and how it hit just that little bit more often. Then you got your first +2 longsword that hit even more often, and did more damage - but you had to kill a real bastard to get it. Later on you got some gauntlets that simulated melee weapon mastery, but it's unlikely you had a single warrior that could have won the duel without help. Then much later in the game you beat a little brat of a religious nut who hit like an ogre - and it turns out she had a particular belt. And from that point on, you had 18/00 STR and everyone better watch out - especially once you got DUHM. But you still had to be concerned about rolling a 1.

All those trials overcome from starting out as someone who may have had decent strength to begin with, but still had to be concerned about missing and getting critically 1-shot in return if you were arrogant enough to charge in melee without help...

...Yeah well, you're probably not gonna have that kind of experience in BG3 because the developers think missing is dumb.

Or they could go with the PF:K route, aka showering you with tons of magic weapons where you don't even feel like keeping them as souvenir.

Start with a +3 long sword! That will solve your missing problem.

 

[Cael]

Remember that feeling of gradually getting more powerful as a melee character in BG1? Finding that first +1 sword that didn't break (they put weapons in that broke Sven), and how it hit just that little bit more often. Then you got your first +2 longsword that hit even more often, and did more damage - but you had to kill a real bastard to get it. Later on you got some gauntlets that simulated melee weapon mastery, but it's unlikely you had a single warrior that could have won the duel without help. Then much later in the game you beat a little brat of a religious nut who hit like an ogre - and it turns out she had a particular belt. And from that point on, you had 18/00 STR and everyone better watch out - especially once you got DUHM. But you still had to be concerned about rolling a 1.

All those trials overcome from starting out as someone who may have had decent strength to begin with, but still had to be concerned about missing and getting critically 1-shot in return if you were arrogant enough to charge in melee without help...

...Yeah well, you're probably not gonna have that kind of experience in BG3 because the developers think missing is dumb.

Or they could go with the PF:K route, aka showering you with tons of magic weapons where you don't even feel like keeping them as souvenir.

Start with a +3 long sword! That will solve your missing problem.

Start with Scat and Fragglerock as statted in ToEE.

 

[hell bovine]

All those trials overcome from starting out as someone who may have had decent strength to begin with, but still had to be concerned about missing and getting critically 1-shot in return if you were arrogant enough to charge in melee without help...

I wonder how many players thought they got lucky with their characters, when in reality it was that hidden "can't die in one hit at level one" mechanics that protected them.

You mean in games other than BG1? Or did that mechanic apply on less than normal difficulty settings?.

l usually play on core or higher and still see it. E.g. against the ogre with the belt.

IWD has it too, afaik.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

All those trials overcome from starting out as someone who may have had decent strength to begin with, but still had to be concerned about missing and getting critically 1-shot in return if you were arrogant enough to charge in melee without help...

I wonder how many players thought they got lucky with their characters, when in reality it was that hidden "can't die in one hit at level one" mechanics that protected them.

There is likely a lot of hidden rule(and roll) fudging going on behind the scenes

 

[Mojobeard]

Then much later in the game you beat a little brat of a religious nut who hit like an ogre - and it turns out she had a particular belt. And from that point on, you had 18/00 STR

Ackshually, Baldur's Gate 2 had the strength belts. It's gauntlets of ogre power, and they're only better than the gauntlets of weapon expertise if you have less than 18/76 strength. And the strength tome's right around the corner by then.

 

[Riddler]

Josh Sawyer [...] a race realist

This is news to you? My man is a crypto-austrian.

 

[Chippy]

Then much later in the game you beat a little brat of a religious nut who hit like an ogre - and it turns out she had a particular belt. And from that point on, you had 18/00 STR

Ackshually, Baldur's Gate 2 had the strength belts. It's gauntlets of ogre power, and they're only better than the gauntlets of weapon expertise if you have less than 18/76 strength. And the strength tome's right around the corner by then.

That's true, my mistake. I used to play once a year until the EE came out, and have stayed away since to try and bleach SOD from my mind. So I'm a bit rusty.

 

[FreeKaner]

Spoiler

This just shows, regardless of what combat format is, it is going to be an absurd epic fantasy with saving the world from an ancient evil. That is really fucking disappointing.

Why don't companies make comfy adventures? Do we always have to aim for the stars and defeat the most ancient and alien evil there is in a dance with gods new and old? Can't take our party to clean a dungeon from goblins, defeat some bandits or take on the criminal underworld of the local city.

It seems BG1 will remain the best D&D game there is for any foreseeable future. Both for combat and setting.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Spoiler

This just shows, regardless of what combat format is, it is going to be an absurd epic fantasy with saving the world from an ancient evil. That is really fucking disappointing.

Why don't companies make comfy adventures? Do we always have to aim for the stars and defeat the most ancient and alien evil there is in a dance with gods new and old? Can't take our party to clean a dungeon from goblins, defeat some bandits or take on the criminal underworld of the local city.

It seems BG1 will remain the best D&D game there is for any foreseeable future. Both for combat and setting.

The only game that tops BG1 in 'epic fantasy' scale is BG2. You're a fucking half-deity of the lord of murder.

 

[FreeKaner]

The only game that tops BG1 in 'epic fantasy' scale is BG2. You're a fucking half-deity of the lord of murder.

Technically, yes. The game doesn't play like that though. You start as an orphan who is suddenly thrown into the wilds to fend for yourself. You are struggling in mines and plains against kobolds and bandits. The combat is fast, grounded and lethal, people die to crossbow hits and lucky crits from two-handed weapons. Your entire party can die to an assassin in first town you go if you are particularly unlucky with hits. Even the prime antagonist Sarevok, who is also son of lord of murder, is more like an evil knight.

So from a purely "lore" point of view, it is epic. The reality of how the game plays and what you are doing is different though. It would have been better if you weren't half-deity child of lord of murder and neither was Sarevok. Still, compared to storyline of BG2 and what this BG3 looks like or indeed compared to PoE1/2 or DIVOS2 it is really down to earth. While technically being an epic fantasy, it feels borderline low fantasy.

 

[J_C]

Spoiler

This just shows, regardless of what combat format is, it is going to be an absurd epic fantasy with saving the world from an ancient evil. That is really fucking disappointing.

Why don't companies make comfy adventures? Do we always have to aim for the stars and defeat the most ancient and alien evil there is in a dance with gods new and old? Can't take our party to clean a dungeon from goblins, defeat some bandits or take on the criminal underworld of the local city.

It seems BG1 will remain the best D&D game there is for any foreseeable future. Both for combat and setting.

The only game that tops BG1 in 'epic fantasy' scale is BG2. You're a fucking half-deity of the lord of murder.

I think the difference here is the presentation. In the BG games you are just going around, solving problems because of yourself. Some parties are attacking you, but most of the times you don't even know why is that happening. It is different from having a big,bad, world-destroying evil from the start, which you have to pursue.

 

[Lacrymas]

Illithid invasion didn't sound very grounded from the get-go. You know we'll be fighting nests of mindflayers by level 3. Or perhaps the tutorial will be clearing a nest of mindflayers.

 

[Strange Fellow]

It seems BG1 will remain the best D&D game there is for any foreseeable future. Both for combat and setting.

How you can say this when Dark Sun exists is a mystery to me. Or Planescape or Ravenloft or Spelljammer or Menzoberranzan, although I can see how these wouldn't appeal to you.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Illithid invasion didn't sound very grounded from the get-go. You know we'll be fighting nests of mindflayers by level 3. Or perhaps the tutorial will be clearing a nest of mindflayers.

A single mindflayer is only CR7.

 

[FreeKaner]

How you can say this when Dark Sun exists is a mystery to me. Or Planescape or Ravenloft or Spelljammer or Menzoberranzan, although I can see how these wouldn't appeal to you.

I just really enjoy low fantasy and urban fantasy. Those are too fantastic or epic or sci-fi. Not that I dislike sci-fi or extreme fantasy, I think those settings are interesting and fun too but it isn't really what I envision when I am talking about D&D.

 

[Lacrymas]

Illithid invasion didn't sound very grounded from the get-go. You know we'll be fighting nests of mindflayers by level 3. Or perhaps the tutorial will be clearing a nest of mindflayers.

A single mindflayer is only CR7.

Nests have uchuulons, urophions, mozgriken, sometimes ulitharids or alhoons. Perhaps even an elder brain if it's in transit.

You know we'll have bounty side quests to kill elder brains within the city. Kill 0/6 elder brains, 0/8 ulitharids, 0/4 Illithiliches, 0/6 brainstealer (ancient) dragons, etc.

 

[Lacrymas]

I just noticed that the elder brain CR has been reduced from 25 in 3E to 14 in 5E. Coincidence? I think not. I'm now certain we'll be fighting them en masse.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Illithid invasion didn't sound very grounded from the get-go. You know we'll be fighting nests of mindflayers by level 3. Or perhaps the tutorial will be clearing a nest of mindflayers.

Page 40:

Is the fact that Illithids will be the main enemy enough evidence that it's going to be shit and the ruleset butchered with low level characters fighting something like Illithids?

 

[Lacrymas]

Page 67:

So Witcher 3: Baldur's Gate edition. You *know* WotC told them to make it "like that witch game". Clearing nests of mindflayers strewn about the city, collecting mindflayer spunk to win a prize, collect 8 mindflayer tentacles quests, Witcher Bhaalspawn vision, etc.

 

[Cael]

[
The only game that tops BG1 in 'epic fantasy' scale is BG2. You're a fucking half-deity of the lord of murder.

To be fair, in just about any RPG, you are basically either the half-deity of murder or outright deity of murder. Fallout's kill count just emphasises this big time.

 

[FreeKaner]

Page 40:

Page 29:

I also hope that the scaling won't go from low level D&D to just killing dragons by mid-game. It is nonsensical to expect this from Larian but if they did turn-based low level D&D it could be great. Just BG1 but turn-based. I guess I am also stupid for hoping for this.