Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[jackofshadows]

I don't think devs have any say in the matter. The problem is that a cutting edge game in the 90s could be made with a team of 12 sweaty nerds paid in dr pepper and cheesy puffs, but today it needs 300 people working full time for 3+ years, some A list voice actors, and an orchestra. With those sorts of budgets it is the money guys calling the shots, not the devs themselves.

That's an understatement. According to wiki, overall budget of BGII was ~4kk$, 20 months of development. With the team up to 65 members (lots of crunches involved). It's not exact near Larian's insane numbers but still quite big. I wonder by the way whose call was to dramatically increase staff for BG3's production: was it WoTC's condition of the deal (full cinematic dialogue feature) or Larian's ambitions/intentions to cover the costs alone. Anyway, the irony part is that today it's Larian who actually are calling the shots, not some publisher like it was natural for any significant gamedev back then and now they're obviously also doesn't want to take any chances, keeping their successful formula untouched as possible.

 

[FranticDistortion]

Not with Larians gimmick based design and generally retarded design decisions aimed at the lowest common denominator, such team based initiative.

There isn't anything they've added that isn't part of 5E D&D. A team-based initiative is an optional rule in 5E. Yes, it sucks but you win some you lose some. If that's the only thing wrong with the combat, I'm gonna get over it.

RE: Larian and the industry - you might want to notice they are the only ones who managed to shift the overton window to the side of party-based RPGs, be they TB or not, I'd say actual RPGs in general, Twitcher might be popular but it's not an RPG. Obsidian failed spectacularly. They are on the side of incline in the general scheme of things.

There's more stuff, like that impossible jumping mechanics which break engagement, the element interactions plus the whole weapon dipping mechanics into the environment, which are Divinity staples, also throwing breaking the action economy. I bet there will be more elemental exploits in added resistances and vulnerabilities. And that's what we know so far. I don't think those will result in a worse game, but they distance BG3 from D&D.

D&D is about players pulling shit out of their asses just to mess with DM. If DM mentions a fucking puddle, one of the players will probably freeze it after luring enemies on it. Environmental shenanigans are quite popular in D&D campaigns.

I don't worry about the combinations per se, but more about Larian's restraint. I would not be surprised if, say, you could drop your boots into lightning from a storm, throw them in the marsh and create a poison tornado, all in one bonus action. Even though I find all those playthroughs of Divinity where players would only use barrels amusing, they would annoy me in a D&D game and trivialize character builds. What does it matter if you're a wizard if the fighter can do the same with grenades while wearing armor and having more HP?

They said they will tone down environmental hazards, and grenade is a thing in d&d that can be effectively used only by alchemists, so they will probably gate it's power.

 

[Orma]

For too long developers have convinced players that they don't deserve anything and should just shut up and take what they're given. They made you all cucks. You deserve better and your voice deserves to be heard. Stand up against decline instead of just taking it because some codex fucks are going to rate your post as butthurt. Have some heart and passion.

gamers rise up

 

[Grunker]

Yes, but so what? I already said the writing is going to be garbage.

Sorry, I'm still coming down from the fact that someone thinks mindflayer tadpole lore is something that can be ruined, let alone someone who fancies themselves a highbrow humanities person. Give it time

What? It is objectively not following the lore, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say. It is still a Forgotten Realms game and it should still follow some basic rules this universe operates on. If they decide to throw all that away, ok, what can I do about it? It won't be a Forgotten Realms game for me then, but I'm not emotionally attached to FR, it's as bland as it gets.

mindflayer tadpole lore is on the list of "basic rules" now

 

[Lacrymas]

Uhm, yes, it is. It's been in the lore since 1998.

 

[gerey]

You might have had a point if you weren't discussing Baldur's fucking Gate.

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 don't have particularly deep or intricate writing, but unlike anything Larian has written the BioWare writers at least managed to get the tone right. They knew when the characters were supposed to act and speak in a certain way. It's by no means a high bar to overcome, yet the very fact Larian has released 7 or so RPGs and are still incapable of meeting such basic requirements speaks volumes about the writing talent they have on hand.

As an example, after waking up in Irenicus' dungeon Imoen and the rest react naturally, as you'd expect people to do. They're scared, angry, grief stricken, and the other denizens of the dungeons, at least those willing to talk, are equally traumatized. People that have been abducted by Lovecraftian rejects and injected with mind parasites eating away at their brains should be equally disturbed, yet none of the characters shown in the demo behave like that.

Larian is utterly incapable of injecting feelings of gravitas into their narratives, everything they have ever written has this fecal veneer of unfunny fantasy parody to it - and there's nothing quite as godawful as tryhard humor that fails to make people laugh.

It feels like one of those modern Star Wars or Marvel movies aping Joss Whedon - full of snarky comebacks and quips and nobody in the cast taking the situation seriously - or Dragon Age: Inquisition, which was written by chimps with the same philosophy behind their writing. I don't think it's a coincidence the characters look similar to those found in Inquisition either.

Now, it's fine for Larian to make their own IPs and let female comedians write a humorous plot and fail to be funny (as is their nature), but if you take Baldur's Gate and turn it into a D:OS mod, not just in terms of gameplay, but approach to narrative, of course people are going to call you out on it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Larian games have always been very light hearted and whimsical. It's part of their charm.

Whimsical as fuck.

And D:OS2 features genocide, guess it's not whimsical either because one plot element completely changes the entire game.
Beyond Divinity is basically a fantasy buddy cop movie.

 

[Grunker]

Basic rules of Faerûn:

1) there's sort of an overgod named Ao
2) there's like a bunch of shit from Earth-lore like Mulhorand and stuff but we don't talk about that because in retrospect its kind of silly although it's getting to be old enough that it might also be sort of kitsch in a way so i dunno dude just... whatever
3) a god's power is determined by his amount of followers it was made that way because at one point gods didn't give a toss about some cruddy mortals so now they sort of do but only because they have to
4) icewind dale is north and chult is south the rest you can sortta move about as you please with some lame excuse like a spellplague or whatever just know the basics right
5) mindflayer tadpoles mate. read up on that shit. i know it may not look like much but if you fuck this up those nerds will be fucking on to you bruv and they're gonna say "well this game's gonna have shit writing innit???"

 

[Lacrymas]

...when the game is about mind flayers and starting by one inserting a tadpole in you, it's obvious to expect basic mind flayer lore. Why are you like this?

 

[FranticDistortion]

You might have had a point if you weren't discussing Baldur's fucking Gate.

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 don't have particularly deep or intricate writing, but unlike anything Larian has done the BioWare writers at least managed to get the tone right. They knew when the characters were supposed to act and speak in a certain way.

After waking up in Irenicus' dungeon Imoen and the rest react naturally, as you'd expect people to do. They're scared, angry, grief stricken, and the other denizens of the dungeons, at least those willing to talk, are equally traumatized. People that have been abducted by Lovecraftian rejects and injected with mind parasites eating away at their brains should be equally disturbed, and by the fact they have a ticking bomb in their heads, yet none of the characters shown in the demo behave like that.

Larian is utterly incapable of injecting feelings of gravitas into their narratives, everything they have ever written has this fecal veneer of unfunny fantasy parody to it - and there's nothing quite as godawful as tryhard humor that fails to make people laugh.

It feels like one of those modern Star Wars or Marvel movies aping Joss Whedon - full of snarky comebacks and quips and nobody in the cast taking the situation seriously - or Dragon Age: Inquisition, which was written by chimps with the same philosophy behind their writing. I don't think it's a coincidence the characters look similar to those found in Inquisition either.

Now, it's fine for Larian to make their own IPs and let female comedians write a humorous plot and fail to be funny as is their nature, but if you take Baldur's Gate and turn it into a D:OS mod, not just in terms of gameplay, but approach to narrative, of course people are going to call you out on it.

You're leaving out the fact that they are: Gith that hunts illithids, Dude fiddling with magic that put a nuke in his guts, Vampire, Monster Hunter who made a pact with the demon, etc. I don't think they would be surprised by mind flayer doing mind flayer things.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

And D:OS2 features genocide, guess it's not whimsical either because one ploy element completely changes the entire game.

That's just some extra cartoonish violence and nothing more since it is not showing its impact, warts and all, as The Witcher series does. It's simply cartoonish violence taken to a different degree and basically making light of the issue of genocide in itself. It's neither deep nor dark.

 

[Grunker]

...when the game is about mind flayers and starting by one inserting a tadpole in you, it's obvious to expect basic mind flayer lore.

nah it's not really that important

Why are you like this?

because I'm an asshole. Also because I really, really can't fathom the fact that you really think mindflayer tadpole lore is something that can be ruined. AND you take yourself really seriously in discussions about literature and the art of writing and stuffies! It amuses me to no end. I'm sorry man

 

[rusty_shackleford]

As an example, after waking up in Irenicus' dungeon Imoen and the rest react naturally, as you'd expect people to do. They're scared, angry, grief stricken, and the other denizens of the dungeons, at least those willing to talk, are equally traumatized. People that have been abducted by Lovecraftian rejects and injected with mind parasites eating away at their brains should be equally disturbed, and by the fact they have a ticking bomb in their heads, yet none of the characters shown in the demo behave like that.

Then 5 minutes after seeing her husband mutilated jaheira wants to have sex with you.
Such amazing writing.

 

[Lacrymas]

...when the game is about mind flayers and starting by one inserting a tadpole in you, it's obvious to expect basic mind flayer lore.

nah it's not really that important

Why are you like this?

because I'm an asshole. Also because I really, really can't fathom the fact that you really think mindflayer tadpole lore is something that can be ruined. AND you take yourself really seriously in discussions about literature and the art of writing and stuffies! It amuses me to know end. I'm sorry man

It is ruined because it is not followed and is replaced by something dumb. Is this not clear?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

And D:OS2 features genocide, guess it's not whimsical either because one ploy element completely changes the entire game.

That's just some extra cartoonish violence and nothing more since it is not showing its impact, warts and all, as The Witcher series does. It's simply cartoonish violence taken to a different degree and basically making light of the issue of genocide in itself. It's neither deep nor dark.

Half of the entire game focuses on it. One character's entire back story is about it, arguably the "main character" in terms of how he was featured in the promo art.
It's clear you haven't played the game, maybe do that before discussing it.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

It's clear you haven't played the game, maybe do that before discussing it.

Sorcerers are rounded up and killed, how dark! Does it show the teeth grinding of torture or the screams of anguish of loved ones left behind? Nah, bro; watch these animations and have some extra witty jokes to go with your genocide!

 

[AwesomeButton]

Then 5 minutes after seeing her husband mutilated jaheira wants to have sex with you.
Such amazing writing.

Yes, my PC is that irresistable. Maybe Gaider is getting turned on by murder scenes and has been taking cues from his own experiences, who knows.

 

[gerey]

Then 5 minutes after seeing her husband mutilated jaheira wants to have sex with you.

You're being deliberately facetious here, and misinterpreting what I'm getting at. We both know it takes a while longer for that sequence of events to trigger, and only really if the player goes down that path.

Not that it matters, since I'm not arguing that the Baldur's Gate games were perfect, or the pinnacle of cRPG writing, but at the very least they tried to make the player feel like the events taking place around him were serious. Hell, treating the plot seriously is something the vast majority of games try to do - usually with mixed results depending on the quality of writing - but I'll take an unintentionally campy plot that tries to be serious over whatever garbage Larian is peddling.

The fact Larain can't stop with their shitty attempts at humor even when working on a new (for them) IP just reinforces the notion that BG3 will just be a D:OS2 reskin.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Sorcerers are rounded up and killed, how dark! Does it show the teeth grinding of torture or the screams of anguish of loved ones left behind?

Yes it does. D:OS 2 was almost silly grimd0rk in places.

 

[FranticDistortion]

It's clear you haven't played the game, maybe do that before discussing it.

Sorcerers are rounded up and killed, how dark! Does it show the teeth grinding of torture or the screams of anguish of loved ones left behind? Nah, bro; watch these animations and have some extra witty jokes to go with your genocide!

Well, there is a scene where you find a collection of souls that demon, stole represented by mountains of candles (soul each), that you have to snuff in order to weaken him. It's set up very well, by having you blow out a couple of souls with commentary for each, before revealing the giant pile. Dark doesn't always have to be gory, edgy, rapy shit.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's clear you haven't played the game, maybe do that before discussing it.

Sorcerers are rounded up and killed, how dark! Does it show the teeth grinding of torture or the screams of anguish of loved ones left behind? Nah, bro; watch these animations and have some extra witty jokes to go with your genocide!

I have not played the game but I want to voice my shit opinion: the post

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Well, there is a scene where you find a collection of souls that demon stole represented by mountains of candles (soul each), that you have to snuff in order to weaken him. Dark doesn't always have to be gory, edgy, rapy shit.

It doesn't, but when such a scene is the exception rather than the rule, then the game remains the witty comedic adventure which it had been for most of its content's design.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's clear you haven't played the game, maybe do that before discussing it.

Sorcerers are rounded up and killed, how dark! Does it show the teeth grinding of torture or the screams of anguish of loved ones left behind? Nah, bro; watch these animations and have some extra witty jokes to go with your genocide!

Well, there is a scene where you find a collection of souls that demon stole represented by mountains of candles (soul each), that you have to snuff in order to weaken him. Dark doesn't always have to be gory, edgy, rapy shit.

How about the cave full of mutant insect monsters that has body parts strewn everywhere, full of gore, and if you have an elf full of stories of people being eaten alive

 

[Grunker]

Then 5 minutes after seeing her husband mutilated jaheira wants to have sex with you.

You're being deliberately facetious here, and misinterpreting what I'm getting at. We both know it takes a while longer for that sequence of events to trigger, and only really if the player goes down that path.

It's actually not just a question of length, it's pretty much ironically the reverse of the actual issue with that romance being that like all the compaions Jaheira shows the signs of preBioAngstEra and so you have a lengthy line of banters where she moans about Khalid and how life is hard and is Very Angry About Stuff. So ol'e Rusty the DivApologist here isn't just using hyperbole, he is pretty much just wrong in as about as many ways as he can be.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Sorcerers are rounded up and killed, how dark! Does it show the teeth grinding of torture or the screams of anguish of loved ones left behind?

Yes it does. D:OS 2 was almost silly grimd0rk in places.

second act features a chef kidnapping people, cutting them up and cooking them into a stew.
first act has kniles the torturer, enough said.