Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[DraQ]

Except Larian aren't the only ones making RPGs, we have a bunch of studios and we have gotten some pretty good RPGs lately. They are still being made. What Larian's success would mean is bigger interest in more niche RPGs that deserve it.

There's more stuff, like that impossible jumping mechanics which break engagement, the element interactions plus the whole weapon dipping mechanics into the environment, which are Divinity staples, also throwing breaking the action economy. I bet there will be more elemental exploits in added resistances and vulnerabilities. And that's what we know so far. I don't think those will result in a worse game, but they distance BG3 from D&D.

You can set oil and your arrows aflame in D&D.

Nonono. Proper DnD cRPG must be strictly limited to being a xvart fireballing simulator.
Anything allowing slightest bit of creativity on part of the player, of the kind that GM would handle and likely reward in actual PnP is strictly verboten.

I would love to send the glimpses of this thread back in time to, say, 2007.
I bet it would be sledge time for the server.

 

[Lacrymas]

If this turns out to be a dud and unplayable, ok, but self-sabotage is not my MO. We are hurting the RPG cause by anathemizing basically a miracle. This is not equivalent to Skyrim, Witcher 3 or that cringe-inducing FF7 remake, this is a pure-blood party-based RPG, being AAA in of itself is not an indictment and it's not about mindlessly consuming AAA garbage. This is the opposite because there are a lot of good arguments for the development of this game.

 

[Black]

re:throwing oil and lighting it on fire
That's entirely 5E.
https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Oil#content

Out of all complaints, the ones about environmental effects make the least sense.
If you play D&D and throw a fireball in a forest and trees don't catch on fire- you've got yourself a shitty dm.
If your dm doesn't allow you to throw boots at stuff- you got yourself a shitty dm.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

If this turns out to be a dud and unplayable, ok, but self-sabotage is not my MO. We are hurting the RPG cause by anathemizing basically a miracle. This is not equivalent to Skyrim, Witcher 3 or that cringe-inducing FF7 remake, this is a pure-blood party-based RPG, being AAA in of itself is not an indictment and it's not about mindlessly consuming AAA garbage.

Combatfaggotry at its finest.

 

[deama]

More slave labour

Why is that lady in the front bending over? How freaking hard is it for nerds to look at least a little bit photogenic? It looks like they're all afraid of each other's personal space (except for the kneeling duo) and they could have all easily fit into the shot without making a second row.

Probably the coronavirus scaring people.

 

[anvi]

Lacrymas

I don't think devs have any say in the matter. The problem is that a cutting edge game in the 90s could be made with a team of 12 sweaty nerds paid in dr pepper and cheesy puffs, but today it needs 300 people working full time for 3+ years, some A list voice actors, and an orchestra. With those sorts of budgets it is the money guys calling the shots, not the devs themselves. The devs themselves only care about making great games that they and us like, but they have proven that they can't be trusted to make that profitable. That's why every good dev got bought out by EA and dismantled. And that's why Larian's recent games required crowdfunding on kickstarter, instead of getting published like a grown ups company. With this game they buy the rights to an old franchise and it acts as a huge bunch of good value marketing because everyone is talking about the return of Baldurs Gate, so they can be sure a lot of people will at least try it. That's why there are so many remakes and reboots these days, in gaming and in movies. Just pray that Divinity Gate: Baldur's Sin is better than Lady Ghostbusters.

Really we are lucky that this is being made by someone who can let you build characters and use spells and whatnot because it quite easily could have been a single character action game made by Zenimax or some other shitlords. I'd rather it be made by the KOTC guy or something but then it wouldn't have any budget and that's why KOTC2 looks like it is made out of paper with glitter and glue. tl;dr It isn't gonna be the BG3 people hoped for but at least it is a new RPG that is probably gonna be fun for a month or so and that's about as much you can hope for these days.

There's plenty of small studios still making great games. Maybe not 11 but 30 or 40.

Yeah but not huge AAA ones like this. Buying the rights to BG will have cost them a lot, but it will pay off with a bigger audience than DoS had. But it also requires that they hire far more staff, spend a lot more time on animations and graphics and music and voice overs and all that lame AAA shit. But without all that, there would be no BG3. I'd rather get this game with AD&D combat instead of DoS3 with the same dumb exploding barrels combat I've already seen twice before.

 

[Black]

re:throwing oil and lighting it on fire
That's entirely 5E.
https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Oil#content

Don't D&D oil flasks go as far as 2e if not earlier?
How big is Larian's reach?!

 

[GhostCow]

Dragonfall, Battle Brothers, Underrail for starters.

I've played Dragonfall. It wasn't horrible but I couldn't get into it. I don't remember what I didn't like about it. Maybe it would be worth another shot if I get desperate enough for something to play. Battle Brothers looks like it might be good but for some reason I really don't like 2d for srpgs. 2.5d like Disgaea I could do but not the flat plane stuff I'm seeing in these screenshots. The art style isn't making me want to play it either. Underrail gets a crazy amount of praise here but I am a bit of a graphics whore and it doesn't look very visually appealing to me compared to the IE games. I guess I'll give it a shot anyway. Right now I'm trying to get into Utawarerumono but it seems like too much of a storyfag game to me. If I end up dropping it I'll try Underrail next.

 

[Lacrymas]

Graphics whore and RPGs don't mix well. You could try the new Warhammer 40k: Mechanicus. Or any of the roguelikes like ToME or Caves of Qud, but they aren't going to satisfy your graphics whoredom.

 

[Saravan]

If this turns out to be a dud and unplayable, ok, but self-sabotage is not my MO. We are hurting the RPG cause by anathemizing basically a miracle. This is not equivalent to Skyrim, Witcher 3 or that cringe-inducing FF7 remake, this is a pure-blood party-based RPG, being AAA in of itself is not an indictment and it's not about mindlessly consuming AAA garbage.

Combatfaggotry at its finest.

What a counter-argument, truly got him there.

Lacrymas

I don't think devs have any say in the matter. The problem is that a cutting edge game in the 90s could be made with a team of 12 sweaty nerds paid in dr pepper and cheesy puffs, but today it needs 300 people working full time for 3+ years, some A list voice actors, and an orchestra. With those sorts of budgets it is the money guys calling the shots, not the devs themselves. The devs themselves only care about making great games that they and us like, but they have proven that they can't be trusted to make that profitable. That's why every good dev got bought out by EA and dismantled. And that's why Larian's recent games required crowdfunding on kickstarter, instead of getting published like a grown ups company. With this game they buy the rights to an old franchise and it acts as a huge bunch of good value marketing because everyone is talking about the return of Baldurs Gate, so they can be sure a lot of people will at least try it. That's why there are so many remakes and reboots these days, in gaming and in movies. Just pray that Divinity Gate: Baldur's Sin is better than Lady Ghostbusters.

Really we are lucky that this is being made by someone who can let you build characters and use spells and whatnot because it quite easily could have been a single character action game made by Zenimax or some other shitlords. I'd rather it be made by the KOTC guy or something but then it wouldn't have any budget and that's why KOTC2 looks like it is made out of paper with glitter and glue. tl;dr It isn't gonna be the BG3 people hoped for but at least it is a new RPG that is probably gonna be fun for a month or so and that's about as much you can hope for these days.

There's plenty of small studios still making great games. Maybe not 11 but 30 or 40.

Yeah but not huge AAA ones like this. Buying the rights to BG will have cost them a lot, but it will pay off with a bigger audience than DoS had. But it also requires that they hire far more staff, spend a lot more time on animations and graphics and music and voice overs and all that lame AAA shit. But without all that, there would be no BG3. I'd rather get this game with AD&D combat instead of DoS3 with the same dumb exploding barrels combat I've already seen twice before.

It's already blatantly apparent from the pre-alpha gameplay that they have toned down the whole exploding barrels combat from DoS 2 to fit more in line with DnD combat. It's impossible to take you guys seriously when you are determined to hate the game, it doesn't matter what's true or not.

Thoughtful criticism like pointing out that you can't change from team-based initiative, assuming it will be that way on the final build, I can understand. That system makes a lot of sense in co-op to spare people from waiting for each other to make their move but is not ideal for single player sessions.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

If this turns out to be a dud and unplayable, ok, but self-sabotage is not my MO. We are hurting the RPG cause by anathemizing basically a miracle. This is not equivalent to Skyrim, Witcher 3 or that cringe-inducing FF7 remake, this is a pure-blood party-based RPG, being AAA in of itself is not an indictment and it's not about mindlessly consuming AAA garbage.

Combatfaggotry at its finest.

What a counter-argument, truly got him there.

Between a RPG with good plot & thematic depth and a pozzed product which happens to have great combat, I'll always pick the former. It's a matter of preference, so there's no objective argument to be had either way.

 

[GhostCow]

Graphics whore and RPGs don't mix well. You could try the new Warhammer 40k: Mechanicus.

I dunno man I can think of a lot of RPGs that look really good. The Yakuza series is probably the nicest looking series I've ever played if you want to count action RPGs. I think we all agree that the IE games look great. All of the old Final Fantasy games look great and so do the new ones even though I hate everything that came after FFX. Disgaea looks great and so do all of the 3d Fire Emblem games. Especially Three Houses. Vampire Bloodlines still looks amazing to me today too. At least the character models do anyway. The screenshots of that 40k game actually look really pretty and the steam reviews are pretty damn good. I'll definitely give it a shot.

 

[DraQ]

If this turns out to be a dud and unplayable, ok, but self-sabotage is not my MO. We are hurting the RPG cause by anathemizing basically a miracle. This is not equivalent to Skyrim, Witcher 3 or that cringe-inducing FF7 remake, this is a pure-blood party-based RPG, being AAA in of itself is not an indictment and it's not about mindlessly consuming AAA garbage.

Combatfaggotry at its finest.

What a counter-argument, truly got him there.

Between a RPG with good plot & thematic depth and a pozzed product which happens to have great combat, I'll always pick the former. It's a matter of preference, so there's no objective argument to be had either way.

You might have had a point if you weren't discussing Baldur's fucking Gate.
Thematic depth my ass.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

If this turns out to be a dud and unplayable, ok, but self-sabotage is not my MO. We are hurting the RPG cause by anathemizing basically a miracle. This is not equivalent to Skyrim, Witcher 3 or that cringe-inducing FF7 remake, this is a pure-blood party-based RPG, being AAA in of itself is not an indictment and it's not about mindlessly consuming AAA garbage.

Combatfaggotry at its finest.

What a counter-argument, truly got him there.

Between a RPG with good plot & thematic depth and a pozzed product which happens to have great combat, I'll always pick the former. It's a matter of preference, so there's no objective argument to be had either way.

"pozzed"
Larian games have always been very light hearted and whimsical. It's part of their charm.
DOS2 was probably their most serious game to date.

 

[mondblut]

re:throwing oil and lighting it on fire
That's entirely 5E.
https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Oil#content

Don't D&D oil flasks go as far as 2e if not earlier?
How big is Larian's reach?!

Pool of Radiance had oil flasks.

That said, all this talk about muh exploding barrels is reaching the "you can bake bread in Ultima 7!111" level of annoying. I mean, do Divinities have any other redeeming qualities? Will every combat location be painstakingly handcrafted to include the same fucking gimmick?

I played games with oil flasks and I played games without oil flasks - and you know what, those oil flasks make ZERO fucking difference to me. Just like baking bread.

 

[FranticDistortion]

Dragonfall, Battle Brothers, Underrail for starters.

I've played Dragonfall. It wasn't horrible but I couldn't get into it. I don't remember what I didn't like about it. Maybe it would be worth another shot if I get desperate enough for something to play. Battle Brothers looks like it might be good but for some reason I really don't like 2d for srpgs. 2.5d like Disgaea I could do but not the flat plane stuff I'm seeing in these screenshots. The art style isn't making me want to play it either. Underrail gets a crazy amount of praise here but I am a bit of a graphics whore and it doesn't look very visually appealing to me compared to the IE games. I guess I'll give it a shot anyway. Right now I'm trying to get into Utawarerumono but it seems like too much of a storyfag game to me. If I end up dropping it I'll try Underrail next.

Trails in the sky is decent too. Battlechasers looks really stylish, but doesn't have a lot of customization. Banner saga is gorgeous and well written, with some primitive stat and skill progression.

 

[mondblut]

Larian games have always been very light hearted and whimsical. It's part of their charm.

Whimsical as fuck.

 

[Grunker]

Yes, but so what? I already said the writing is going to be garbage.

Sorry, I'm still coming down from the fact that someone thinks mindflayer tadpole lore is something that can be ruined, let alone someone who fancies themselves a highbrow humanities person. Give it time

 

[FranticDistortion]

If this turns out to be a dud and unplayable, ok, but self-sabotage is not my MO. We are hurting the RPG cause by anathemizing basically a miracle. This is not equivalent to Skyrim, Witcher 3 or that cringe-inducing FF7 remake, this is a pure-blood party-based RPG, being AAA in of itself is not an indictment and it's not about mindlessly consuming AAA garbage.

Combatfaggotry at its finest.

What a counter-argument, truly got him there.

Between a RPG with good plot & thematic depth and a pozzed product which happens to have great combat, I'll always pick the former. It's a matter of preference, so there's no objective argument to be had either way.

"pozzed"
Larian games have always been very light hearted and whimsical. It's part of their charm.
DOS2 was probably their most serious game to date.

I'd give that "serious" title to Divine Divinity, thought it had enough humor as well, albeit darker.

 

[Grunker]

Larian games have always been very light hearted and whimsical. It's part of their charm.

The charm of those fat beta nerds from back when, geeking out over giant space hamsters even when they reached the late 20s... hey wait maybe Larian is an ok fit after all

 

[TwoEdge]

Not with Larians gimmick based design and generally retarded design decisions aimed at the lowest common denominator, such team based initiative.

There isn't anything they've added that isn't part of 5E D&D. A team-based initiative is an optional rule in 5E. Yes, it sucks but you win some you lose some. If that's the only thing wrong with the combat, I'm gonna get over it.

RE: Larian and the industry - you might want to notice they are the only ones who managed to shift the overton window to the side of party-based RPGs, be they TB or not, I'd say actual RPGs in general, Twitcher might be popular but it's not an RPG. Obsidian failed spectacularly. They are on the side of incline in the general scheme of things.

There's more stuff, like that impossible jumping mechanics which break engagement, the element interactions plus the whole weapon dipping mechanics into the environment, which are Divinity staples, also throwing breaking the action economy. I bet there will be more elemental exploits in added resistances and vulnerabilities. And that's what we know so far. I don't think those will result in a worse game, but they distance BG3 from D&D.

D&D is about players pulling shit out of their asses just to mess with DM. If DM mentions a fucking puddle, one of the players will probably freeze it after luring enemies on it. Environmental shenanigans are quite popular in D&D campaigns.

I don't worry about the combinations per se, but more about Larian's restraint. I would not be surprised if, say, you could drop your boots into lightning from a storm, throw them in the marsh and create a poison tornado, all in one bonus action. Even though I find all those playthroughs of Divinity where players would only use barrels amusing, they would annoy me in a D&D game and trivialize character builds. What does it matter if you're a wizard if the fighter can do the same with grenades while wearing armor and having more HP?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

You might have had a point if you weren't discussing Baldur's fucking Gate.
Thematic depth my ass.

It was a campy, but fun adventure. BG3 will be pozz, simple as that. And I do not hold BG as the pinnacle of RPGs, so I am being quite moderate by not shitting on the previous entries as well.

Larian games have always been very light hearted and whimsical. It's part of their charm.
DOS2 was probably their most serious game to date.

So like the original Baldur's Gate, only done much more poorly? And yeah, pozzed akin to nuBioWare with shit like the pristine character models which neuter the aesthetic and (((inclusive))), one dimensional characters; not to mention the native Larian retardation in dialogue implementation. Maybe you should be replaying some Inquisition while awaiting this GOTY of yours?

 

[Black]

Larian games have always been very light hearted and whimsical. It's part of their charm.

The charm of those fat beta nerds from back when, geeking out over giant space hamsters even when they reached the late 20s... hey wait maybe Larian is an ok fit after all

If someone can do justice to a wizard-turned-tranny, it's larian.

 

[Thunar]

Not with Larians gimmick based design and generally retarded design decisions aimed at the lowest common denominator, such team based initiative.

There isn't anything they've added that isn't part of 5E D&D. A team-based initiative is an optional rule in 5E. Yes, it sucks but you win some you lose some. If that's the only thing wrong with the combat, I'm gonna get over it.

RE: Larian and the industry - you might want to notice they are the only ones who managed to shift the overton window to the side of party-based RPGs, be they TB or not, I'd say actual RPGs in general, Twitcher might be popular but it's not an RPG. Obsidian failed spectacularly. They are on the side of incline in the general scheme of things.

There's more stuff, like that impossible jumping mechanics which break engagement, the element interactions plus the whole weapon dipping mechanics into the environment, which are Divinity staples, also throwing breaking the action economy. I bet there will be more elemental exploits in added resistances and vulnerabilities. And that's what we know so far. I don't think those will result in a worse game, but they distance BG3 from D&D.

D&D is about players pulling shit out of their asses just to mess with DM. If DM mentions a fucking puddle, one of the players will probably freeze it after luring enemies on it. Environmental shenanigans are quite popular in D&D campaigns.

I don't worry about the combinations, per se, but more about Larian's restraint. I would not be surprised if, say, you could drop your boots into a lightning from a storm, throw them in the marsh and create a poison tornado, all in one bonus action. Even though I find all those playthroughs of Divinity where players would only use barrels amusing, they would annoy me in a D&D game and trivialize character builds. What does it matter if you're a wizard if the fighter can do the same with grenades while wearing armor and having more HP?

You guys are blowing the exploding barrels out of proportions. In DOS2, all these environmental effects literally meant nothing once armored, both for the player and monsters.
I get that they'll probably try to make it a significant part of their game, but I think they themselves know it's more of a marketing trick. The last thing a bit of fire on the floor is going to do is break builds.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yes, but so what? I already said the writing is going to be garbage.

Sorry, I'm still coming down from the fact that someone thinks mindflayer tadpole lore is something that can be ruined, let alone someone who fancies themselves a highbrow humanities person. Give it time

What? It is objectively not following the lore, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say. It is still a Forgotten Realms game and it should still follow some basic rules this universe operates on. If they decide to throw all that away, ok, what can I do about it? It won't be a Forgotten Realms game for me then, but I'm not emotionally attached to FR, it's as bland as it gets.