Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Elex]

RE: day/night cycle

A day/night cycle is like one of the easiest things to pull off, you just need to know how colors work; it's literally just a dark blue-violet glaze on top. And it's the same both for 2d and 3d, although I guess it would be more complicated with modern graphics and many sources of light. But really, I made this in 5 minutes:

1. Random BG internet picture:

2. My own lazy, cheap night version:

3. How it's done:

Spoiler

Same with BG3:

Spoiler

And if you want this to affect the shadow mechanics in some way, just add a multiplier to whatever bonus you got from the daylight shadow, like 1.5, and that's it.

Meanwhile at larian:

 

[DraQ]

Remove NPCs routines when at night, and make most of them stay at home. Close some doors.

More than doubles the work required for implementing NPC activity, probably at least quadruples the work testing it.
Congratulations!

I really like stuff like that, but putting things in a game is only worth it if it serves some benefit.
It's like with NPC schedules - they are a hammer, a hammer is pointless unless it drives a nail somewhere.
Oblivion had fairly complex NPC schedules and they just didn't fucking matter.
Note that in order to not be purely cosmetic day-night cycle implies NPC schedules OR some mechanics affected by it that cannot be bypassed by just waiting. Like PC vampirism with sunlight burning you (makes day-night cycle relevant for travel IF you have to manage it while traveling, finding shelter before the dawn and whatnot).

In case of BG3 I actually think it could benefit a lot from NPC schedules and day-night cycle, but it's Larian's call and their resources to allocate.

 

[Harthwain]

Reminder: Swen was missing a lot during the gameplay reveal... Just saying.

A good question to ask is what kind of rng use bg3 seed based? Save scumming a fight will be possible?

Should Larian bother with people who save-scum? In my opinion that's a waste of time, because ultimately it's up to people to play how they please and there is no stopping them anyway.

As for the throwing junk... I wonder how it will scale later in game (in terms of health increase). What we saw was just the beginning after all and I didn't see anything in the rules that improvised weapons' damage increases anywhere in the rule. My guess is they will make the extra action more useful/more powerful to spend on using something else than just throwing trash all the time.

 

[DraQ]

Can you fucking autists please stop? RTWP is good because when you watch Boromir and Aragorn defend the hobbits in Moria, the entire scene doesn't freeze

Like when you pause?

Spoiler

Also, phase based is better.

 

[Mazisky]

It's fine guys, the demo shows how Larian is trying hard to compensate the lack of day\night cycles.

-The area is called "Sunlit Wetlands".

-At the start of the demo, the vampire main character realize he is immune to daylight because of the infection.

that's frankly embarassing.

Next gameplay a new character will explain that the moon has been stolen by some sorcerer.

 

[RangerOne]

RE: day/night cycle

A day/night cycle is like one of the easiest things to pull off

It actually isn't that easy in a 3D game. The entire shading system in Larian's engine probably needs to be overhauled, which is probably why they don't want to do it.

Who the fuck cares about day-night cycle? Mah-immersun-tards?

I like it how day-night cycles suddenly became unimportant, the minute we learned they won't be featured.

I like how it became important, the moment we learned it won't be featured.

Swen wanted to implement a day/night cycle in D:OS 1 way back in 2013, so it has been important feature for quite some time.

The feature only became unimportant yesterday, when Larian White Knights discovered that there still won't be any day/night cycles in Larian's games.

 

[DraQ]

Should Larian bother with people who save-scum? In my opinion that's a waste of time, because ultimately it's up to people to play how they please and there is no stopping them anyway.

Any kind of save system with save at will and reload at will is scummable unless it penalizes the act of reloading.

Either you break the randomness or milk the game for information you shouldn't have.

 

[DraQ]

Next gameplay a new character will explain that the moon has been stolen by some sorcerer.

We had that in Poland.
:politics:

 

[DraQ]

savescummers deserve the death penalty

Meh. They will just reload.

 

[Orma]

it's too chaotic and hectic (rtwp)

it isn't, unless you are disabled

Since the player doesn't have precise control over the encounter

I did have precise control on every single summon and ranger pet in rtwp games I've played, let alone party members. Especially in Deadfire, which was readable even for the disabled turd based codexer

 

[Mazisky]

RE: day/night cycle

A day/night cycle is like one of the easiest things to pull off

It actually isn't that easy in a 3D game. The entire shading system in Larian's engine probably needs to be overhauled, which is probably why they don't want to do it.

Random modders already figured out back in 2015

 

[Nortar]

Yep, it's a so bad design decision that the majority of developers included it in their games since 90's. Such incompetent developers we had in gaming history.

Im am pretty sure that you and rustyshackefag would have done a better job

Of course, a million lemmings can't be wrong, right? And a popular thing is good, just because everyone is doing it.
Well, I'd color you as a decline enabler, coz you know, the majority of developers develop shitty games the last couple of decades.

 

[Mazisky]

Yep, it's a so bad design decision that the majority of developers included it in their games since 90's. Such incompetent developers we had in gaming history.

Im am pretty sure that you and rustyshackefag would have done a better job

Of course, a million lemmings can't be wrong, right? And a popular thing is good, just because everyone is doing it.
Well, I'd color you as a decline enabler, coz you know, the majority of developers develop shitty games the last couple of decades.

So, are you saying that Fallout 1, 2, Baldur's gate 1, 2, Planescape Torment, Arcanum, Age of decadence, Gothic 1, 2, Pathfinder, Jagged Alliance 2 are all shitty games made by shitty devs? Because all of those games had day\night cycles.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

it's too chaotic and hectic (rtwp)

it isn't, unless you are disabled

Since the player doesn't have precise control over the encounter

I did have precise control on every single summon and ranger pet in rtwp games I've played, let alone party members. Especially in Deadfire, which was readable even for the disabled turd based codexer

rtwp is far more idiot friendly than turn-based because you can change tactics on the fly compared to being committed to your decision in turn-based.
Hurt and need to get behind line of sight to prevent damage? No problem, just start running away.
Need to react to something while performing an action already? No problem, most actions are interruptible in rtwp games, especially spell casts.

 

[Nortar]

Yep, it's a so bad design decision that the majority of developers included it in their games since 90's. Such incompetent developers we had in gaming history.

Im am pretty sure that you and rustyshackefag would have done a better job

Of course, a million lemmings can't be wrong, right? And a popular thing is good, just because everyone is doing it.
Well, I'd color you as a decline enabler, coz you know, the majority of developers develop shitty games the last couple of decades.

So, are you saying that Fallout 1, 2, Baldur's gate 1, 2, Planescape Torment, Arcanum, Age of decadence, Gothic 1, 2, Pathfinder, Jagged Alliance 2 are all shitty games made by shitty devs? Because all of those games had day\night cycles.

I'm saying that all those games would not be any worse without D/N cycle.
For all I know they could have been even better had developers not wasted time and resources on useless fad feature.

 

[Shadenuat]

useless gothic with its dark nights and torches and wolves; useless ja with its vision mechanics
rite

 

[Mazisky]

useless gothic with its dark nights and torches and wolves; useless ja with its vision mechanics
rite

Imagine original Xcom without nights: lost 50% of the amtosphere for that alone.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

It's fine guys, the demo shows how Larian is trying hard to compensate the lack of day\night cycles.

-The area is called "Sunlit Wetlands".

-At the start of the demo, the vampire main character realize he is immune to daylight because of the infection.

that's frankly embarassing.

Next gameplay a new character will explain that the moon has been stolen by some sorcerer.

I must comment on things I know nothing about: the post.

The day/night changes in D:OS games based on quest progress and the area you're in. It's not daytime constantly you dunce.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

it's too chaotic and hectic (rtwp)

it isn't, unless you are disabled

Since the player doesn't have precise control over the encounter

I did have precise control on every single summon and ranger pet in rtwp games I've played, let alone party members. Especially in Deadfire, which was readable even for the disabled turd based codexer

rtwp is far more idiot friendly than turn-based because you can change tactics on the fly compared to being committed to your decision in turn-based.
Hurt and need to get behind line of sight to prevent damage? No problem, just start running away.
Need to react to something while performing an action already? No problem, most actions are interruptible in rtwp games, especially spell casts.

and TB allows people with high latency from eye to brain to process information

its the most idiot friendly system ever

there is a reason all competitive games are real time, the ability to process information and make decision quickly

 

[rusty_shackleford]

there is a reason all competitive games are real time,

yes I forgot that chess is real time

 

[Saerain]

RE: day/night cycle

A day/night cycle is like one of the easiest things to pull off, you just need to know how colors work; it's literally just a dark blue-violet glaze on top. And it's the same both for 2d and 3d, although I guess it would be more complicated with modern graphics and many sources of light. But really, I made this in 5 minutes:

This guy wants day-for-night, one of the most stereotypical markers of retard cinematography, in video games.

Help me. It hurts.

 

[Naveen]

It actually isn't that easy in a 3D game. The entire shading system in Larian's engine probably needs to be overhauled, which is probably why they don't want to do it.

I'm clearly biased toward 2D, so yeah, I guess it's much harder in 3D. And those are still images, so I don't know it would look witih things moving around. Still, I don't think it's the game-breaking effort some believe it is if you understand you are aiming for an illusion of night.

This guy wants day-for-night, one of the most stereotypical markers of retard cinematography, in video games.

Help me. It hurts.

I did say it took me 5 minutes, didn't I? And I'm not aware of what day-for-night is but I assume it's some unforgivable sin. I showed those examples because that's how shadows are actually painted in many classical works. It's literally just a (or many) blue glaze. I turned it up towards dark-blue to see what happened and it gave an effect similar to the original BG at night. It's lazy? Eh, yeah? That's why I called it lazy and cheap. But it's a starting point. Again, if there's some hardcoded reason they can't do absence of light, well, OK, but they have a 300-people team or something like that, and they have fully-voiced dialogue, cinematic cameras, (attempts) at lip-synching, box-stacking puzzles, animations for flying trousers and people slipping on oil, etc. I don't think a couple of guys trying to find a creative (even if cheap) solution to the night problem is such a burden in a game where half of the gameplay we have seen involved stealth.

Edit: Anyway, you can ignore my gimmick, because if what Roguey says is true, the engine already has a day/night function but it's left unused, which makes its absence even worse.

 

[Roguey]

That they would update and possibly refactor their engine just so you can have a day night cycle?

As I've mentioned in another thread, D:OS already supports a day/night cycle (SniperHF's mod uses one), it's just that Swen thinks that if he can't implement it exactly as he thinks it should be envisioned, he doesn't want to do it at all.

And what's the point of it if nothing actually changes?
I guarantee if BG3 had a cosmetic-only day/night cycle you fags would be crying that it's cosmetic only.

Every D&D crpg I can think of has one (from Pool of Radiance to BG to NWN to even Knights of the Chalice), and I've never seen anyone complain.

 

[Elex]

it's too chaotic and hectic (rtwp)

it isn't, unless you are disabled

Since the player doesn't have precise control over the encounter

I did have precise control on every single summon and ranger pet in rtwp games I've played, let alone party members. Especially in Deadfire, which was readable even for the disabled turd based codexer

rtwp is far more idiot friendly than turn-based because you can change tactics on the fly compared to being committed to your decision in turn-based.
Hurt and need to get behind line of sight to prevent damage? No problem, just start running away.
Need to react to something while performing an action already? No problem, most actions are interruptible in rtwp games, especially spell casts.

and TB allows people with high latency from eye to brain to process information

its the most idiot friendly system ever

there is a reason all competitive games are real time, the ability to process information and make decision quickly

Yes chess is a game for dumb people.
Instead reflex based sports are for smart big IQ people.

 

[Lilura]

Imagine original Xcom without nights: lost 50% of the amtosphere for that alone.

Jagged Alliance 2 stealth + nightops ftw.