Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Chunkyman]

If someone unearthed a manuscript that technically showed that the first chess game was real time, I'm sure some of our brilliant Codex friends in this thread would accuse everyone else of not playing the real chess and that the transition to turn based was pure decline.

 

[luj1]

Who gives a FOOK about day/night cycles.... there is like a million other things they need to get right

 

[InD_ImaginE]

it's too chaotic and hectic (rtwp)

it isn't, unless you are disabled

Since the player doesn't have precise control over the encounter

I did have precise control on every single summon and ranger pet in rtwp games I've played, let alone party members. Especially in Deadfire, which was readable even for the disabled turd based codexer

rtwp is far more idiot friendly than turn-based because you can change tactics on the fly compared to being committed to your decision in turn-based.
Hurt and need to get behind line of sight to prevent damage? No problem, just start running away.
Need to react to something while performing an action already? No problem, most actions are interruptible in rtwp games, especially spell casts.

and TB allows people with high latency from eye to brain to process information

its the most idiot friendly system ever

there is a reason all competitive games are real time, the ability to process information and make decision quickly

Yes chess is a game for dumb people.
Instead reflex based sports are for smart big IQ people.

 

[Dwarvophile]

If someone unearthed a manuscript that technically showed that the first chess game was real time

Don't think this is even conceivable, or maybe as a sophisticated kind of brawling.
However, there's a fun chess variant which is co-op : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bughouse_chess

 

[User0001]

Absolutely. It's a crime against art but unfortunately being a passionless hack isn't an actual crime.

Holy shit, I just figured it out!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

 

[NJClaw]

If someone unearthed a manuscript that technically showed that the first chess game was real time

Don't think this is even conceivable, or maybe as a sophisticated kind of brawling.
However, there's a fun chess variant which is co-op : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bughouse_chess

Apparently a TB Baldur's Gate is far more unconceivable than real time chess.

it's too chaotic and hectic (rtwp)

it isn't, unless you are disabled

Since the player doesn't have precise control over the encounter

I did have precise control on every single summon and ranger pet in rtwp games I've played, let alone party members. Especially in Deadfire, which was readable even for the disabled turd based codexer

With TB you still have superior control over everything that's happening in the encounter.
When I play a rtwp rpg, usually, after a certain point, I stop caring about who is doing what and I start watching enemies' lifebars depleting while keeping my characters alive, without really knowing who is dealing damage to whom. This happens to me in BG2 around chapter 4, in Kingmaker it depends on the party I am playing with, but it can happen anywhere between Troll Trouble and War of the River Kings. I don't know why, but it never happens in IWD1 and 2. I think that both Pillars of Eternity and Deadfire, setting aside every flaw, do a good job preventing this feeling.
When I play a tb rpg, I care for every single attack of every single character in every single encounter.

This said, I really don't care for the whole rtwp vs tb eternal war. I would still play BG3 even it was rtwp and "pause" was bound to a button inside of my anus.

 

[Lacrymas]

Ugh, there's no end to RTwP fetishists and now we have the weird day/night cycle freaks randomly coming out of the woodwork again.

 

[DraQ]

With TB you still have superior control over everything that's happening in the encounter.

Well, you can have this degree of control in RTWP but it involves mashing the pause button like a retard. Which is tedious as fuck so the actual gameplay is balanced for much sloppier and slower input with much lower level of micro.

The problem with RTWP isn't accessibility, no matter how RTWPtards would like it to be, it's the sheer tedium inherent in RTWP as cRPG control mechanism.

OTOH in TB the level of micro is set in stone, no input is required beyond what actually commands the actions and design can be much tighter:

When I play a rtwp rpg, usually, after a certain point, I stop caring about who is doing what and I start watching enemies' lifebars depleting while keeping my characters alive, without really knowing who is dealing damage to whom. This happens to me in BG2 around chapter 4, in Kingmaker it depends on the party I am playing with, but it can happen anywhere between Troll Trouble and War of the River Kings. I don't know why, but it never happens in IWD1 and 2. I think that both Pillars of Eternity and Deadfire, setting aside every flaw, do a good job preventing this feeling.
When I play a tb rpg, I care for every single attack of every single character in every single encounter.

Caveat

BG didn't have health bars...

 

[Roguey]

Ugh, there's no end to RTwP fetishists and now we have the weird day/night cycle freaks randomly coming out of the woodwork again.

Even Ruins of Myth Drannor had a day/night cycle.

Pillars of Eternity had one as well.

 

[Tytus]

Witcher 1 had a day/night cycle as well. And it was (while kinda different) RTwP as well.

 

[Delterius]

broke: game is locked on day

woke: game has day and night cycle

bespoke: game is locked on night

baroque: the game world has three suns

 

[Thonius]

Game is not out, yet there are fanboys already in full damage control mode.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Game is not out, yet there are fanboys already in full damage control mode.

I agree, the BG1+2 fanboys crying that the game isn't just the same game released again are getting annoying

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

A dagger? Ok. An axe? Ok. A fire flask..ok...shoes? If somebody threw shoes and hit you from 30 feet away and you are wearing Armour they are doing no damage. Its dumb as hell. Not to mention unlacing you boots and throwing them should take at least 10 to 20 seconds. If they are a back pack item, okay, but still shoes are not doing any damage to anyone unless you are a roach or something.

Are you using realism argument? Here is the rule:

Improvised Weapons

Sometimes characters don't have their weapons and have to attack with whatever is at hand. An improvised weapon includes any object you can wield in one or two hands, such as broken glass, a table leg, a frying pan, a wagon wheel, or a dead goblin.

Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.

An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the GM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet

shoes should do no damage. Can you throw an apple at a dragon and kill it? Honestly an apple would do more damage than shoes though, because I could at least throw it like a baseball and get some speed on it like 70 MPH. Shoes are going to tumble and have no force behind them at all.

There should be some semblance of reality, yes, or otherwise what are we doing? Why do we have the rules? You should not be able to sit down and unlace your shoes and then throw them and have them do as much damage as a combat dagger and have it take less time than it would to swing sword. otherwise, why have rules at all? Why not just say you pick up pebbles and throw them for 2d12? Whats the difference?

No it shouldn't be realistic. Monk fisting dragon to death is not realistic. Warrior's swings doing more damage than giant stones and fireballs is not realistic. 4 adventurers wiping hundreds of monsters is not realistic. Go play survival game if you want realism. There is not a single RPG that pulled it well and i hope they stop trying, because it's boring as fuck. And he already stated that item throws do 1d4 max, learn to read.

there is a difference between realistic "magic sword" and "monk" and just hurling fucking boots and clothes and just and random shit.

verisimilitude


Its why worlds like game of thrones are more compelling than just having random boot throwing ball dipping acid exploding barrels 900 miles in the wilderness. Just because its fantasy does not mean "DUIRRR anything goes!! Its fantasy, so my underwears does 8d6 DAMGE if i throws its it! cause magic dragons and furries and munks! therefore my underoos are a vorpal weapon!

Boot throwing looks dumb. It makes everything a fucking joke. The minute you see it you realize they don't really give a fuck. Would you want to sit down and play a game of D&D with 8 year olds? Thats what it feels like. Just because its fantasy or D&D does not mean it has to be stupid as fuck and make no rules because magic and monks. And BTW I hate fucking monks. I never use them, they suck too. fuck furry races, and elves and fuck most magic users as well for the most part.

 

[Thonius]

Game is not out, yet there are fanboys already in full damage control mode.

I agree, the BG1+2 fanboys crying that the game isn't just the same game released again are getting annoying

No I meant... oh I'm gonna vomit... Larian DOS fanboys.
Sure, originals are 20 years old and they just HAD to change, but cmon. Praising Larian?... ew. Can't take it seriously, anyone who defends DOS and tells people that it's "super surious" game has a bad taste, shill or troll.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Game is not out, yet there are fanboys already in full damage control mode.

I agree, the BG1+2 fanboys crying that the game isn't just the same game released again are getting annoying

No I meant... oh I'm gonna vomit... Larian DOS fanboys.
Sure, originals are 20 years old and they just HAD to change, but cmon. Praising Larian?... ew. Can't take it seriously, anyone who defends DOS and tells people that it's "super surious" game has a bad taste, shill or troll.

right on bro, I only play super serious games for fellow super serious gamers
HAHA GO FOR THE EYES BOO XD

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Damage from throwing random objects should be pretty low and modified by target's size and of course object thrown, its weight, etc. Throwing normal boot at medium rare sized humanoid should IMO only deal actual damage on crit, but it should still confer some disadvantages to the target on hit and might be worthwhile in some situations.

I don't know how it is handled in PnP DnD TBH.

that is what I was thinking. I could live with it if on a crit it like dazed a creature or something. But boots doing 1d4 damage, is ridiculous, since that is the same damage as a dagger... especially since it took less time to do than an actual attack. It appeared as if you could move and then take your boots off and throw them or maybe attack and then unlace your boots and chuck them for an extra 1d4 damage. Just stupid. Can you then put on another pair and do the same thing next round?

 

[Thonius]

Game is not out, yet there are fanboys already in full damage control mode.

I agree, the BG1+2 fanboys crying that the game isn't just the same game released again are getting annoying

No I meant... oh I'm gonna vomit... Larian DOS fanboys.
Sure, originals are 20 years old and they just HAD to change, but cmon. Praising Larian?... ew. Can't take it seriously, anyone who defends DOS and tells people that it's "super surious" game has a bad taste, shill or troll.

right on bro, I only play super serious games for fellow super serious gamers
HAHA GO FOR THE EYES BOO XD

I agree it's wacky (and the reason I hated minsk), but you know there is certain threshold when "quirky funny" becomes fucking trash. Larian way beyond that threshold every time.
Source material is not ideal to say the least, but 3rd iteration will be even more shitier. Why? Well even more "wokier" writers, that grew on BG1-2 writing and modern tv. They will just regurgitate shitty writing from TV series, popular "novels" and other games, slap 60$ price tag and call it a day.

 

[NJClaw]

Caveat

BG didn't have health bars...

Watching the tooltip go from "uninjured" to "near death" wasn't that much different.

 

[Xzar]

Baldur's Gate Popular Resistance Front Herald
Issue 1

DOSlim invaders are on defensive at Steam forums. Most of those casuals are shocked at having met such strong opposition. Invader Quadsword expresses his disbelief: "You lot are beyond pathetic. Even in the Doom community there wasn't this much teeth gnashing when the reboot launched." At the time this issue went into publication, 80% of threads on first page of that hub were negative. This is despite constant bombardment and drone attacks by Steam moderators, who lock or delete the most juicy threads.

On Reddit, one moderator of r/baldursgate revealed himself to be collaborator of Larian Occupation Government. u/ThorThunderfist had this to say to justify closing three anti-LOG threads, including "What makes this game Baldur's Gate 3?" by u/Smooth_Complaint: "Posts like this only serve to increase tensions and antagonize each other. This debate has been ongoing since the gameplay reveal and has gone nowhere. At this point, all we can do is wait to see what Larian is doing with the game and offer meaningful feedback to Larian as they iterate on the game." Still, somehow the heavy criticism of PAX interview still available there. A sign of brewing coup against u/ThorThunderfist by other moderators?

Beamdog forums front remains under enemy control, as leftist admin Julius Borisov defends LOG with passion: "I played D:OS and D:OS 2. And during both games, I felt something. Something for the first time since DA:O. Something that in spirit resembled BG 2. Imagine my surprise when I was 100% sure PoE is our BG3 which never happened. Imagine my feelings when I had to agree with IGN, years after, that it's D:OS that feels like BG2 sometimes. Yeah, yeah, I know, a lot of you folks won't agree. But that is WHAT I FELT MYSELF, completely uninfluenced by media." People who wish to remain anonymous claim their freedom loving posts are being removed. Forum member TacoBell says: "I have been insulted, called irrational, senile, un-reasonable, and a terrorist."

Hear ye! Hear ye! Tide turned at RPGCodex, where rusty_shackleford, Draq and few other regime puppets found themselves in Stalingrad style pocket. Their pathetic attempts at breaching the entrapment are going nowhere thanks to strategic thinking of General Mazisky, Guildmaster Grotesque and Duke Ontopoly, who are surely blessed by all holy and unholy Gods!

This message is brought to you by Blushing Mermaid - where beer is better, but whores are just as good as at Low Lantern.

 

[Thunar]

Damage from throwing random objects should be pretty low and modified by target's size and of course object thrown, its weight, etc. Throwing normal boot at medium rare sized humanoid should IMO only deal actual damage on crit, but it should still confer some disadvantages to the target on hit and might be worthwhile in some situations.

I don't know how it is handled in PnP DnD TBH.

that is what I was thinking. I could live with it if on a crit it like dazed a creature or something. But boots doing 1d4 damage, is ridiculous, since that is the same damage as a dagger... especially since it took less time to do than an actual attack. It appeared as if you could move and then take your boots off and throw them or maybe attack and then unlace your boots and chuck them for an extra 1d4 damage. Just stupid. Can you then put on another pair and do the same thing next round?

I don't think characters have proficiency on improvised weapons unless they take a certain feat. In contrast, virtually everyone has proficiency with daggers. So you're looking at 1d4 for boots vs 1d4 + 2 for dagger (at level 1, proficiency increases by 2 every 3 or 4 level), the average of those is 2 to 4... So yeah, it's quite a difference.

 

[NJClaw]

Damage from throwing random objects should be pretty low and modified by target's size and of course object thrown, its weight, etc. Throwing normal boot at medium rare sized humanoid should IMO only deal actual damage on crit, but it should still confer some disadvantages to the target on hit and might be worthwhile in some situations.

I don't know how it is handled in PnP DnD TBH.

that is what I was thinking. I could live with it if on a crit it like dazed a creature or something. But boots doing 1d4 damage, is ridiculous, since that is the same damage as a dagger... especially since it took less time to do than an actual attack. It appeared as if you could move and then take your boots off and throw them or maybe attack and then unlace your boots and chuck them for an extra 1d4 damage. Just stupid. Can you then put on another pair and do the same thing next round?

Damage is not exactly realistic. In D&D 3.x two scratches from a cat would always send a commoner into a coma

 

[vortex]

In times of great desperation it's time for another re-re-re-re-review of Pillars of Eternity 1.

 

[vortex]

Baldur's Gate Popular Resistance Front Herald
Issue 1

I'm subscribing to your BGPR Herald Issue.

 

[DraQ]

Witcher 1 had a day/night cycle as well. And it was (while kinda different) RTwP as well.

In Witcher the concept was kind of central to themes and mechanics of the game.

Again, I like day-night cycles and I do think BG3 could benefit from it, but ultimately mechanics is what you do with it, BG1-2 did NOT benefit from their day-night cycles noticeably and it's Larian's call whether they want to spend resources on this particular thing.

Damage from throwing random objects should be pretty low and modified by target's size and of course object thrown, its weight, etc. Throwing normal boot at medium rare sized humanoid should IMO only deal actual damage on crit, but it should still confer some disadvantages to the target on hit and might be worthwhile in some situations.

I don't know how it is handled in PnP DnD TBH.

that is what I was thinking. I could live with it if on a crit it like dazed a creature or something. But boots doing 1d4 damage, is ridiculous, since that is the same damage as a dagger... especially since it took less time to do than an actual attack. It appeared as if you could move and then take your boots off and throw them or maybe attack and then unlace your boots and chuck them for an extra 1d4 damage. Just stupid. Can you then put on another pair and do the same thing next round?

I would go with something like that (for leather/cloth boots and similar items):
1D4 damage with target size dependent negative damage modifier (something like -4 for medium sized target - it's hard to hurt someone throwing boots at them, but you can for example kill a rat with them - note that this will deal damage on crit).
Roll on special effect table on hit (kind of: no effect, vs disadvantage for the next round OR first action by or against character whichever happens first., vs forced to step back (possibly falling off stuff, etc.)).

Would be mostly harmless, but sometimes a valuable distraction and sometimes cause of hilarious and memorable events: "so the guy was about to kill me and I didn't have any way to prevent that, so I threw my boot in his face in defiance dazing him and making him step backwards and fall off the stairs".

You could also throw boots at pressure plates or mechanisms.