Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[DraQ]

Ability to kill any NPC is not "fixed cost", because it potentially breaks the plot everywhere, and you'll end up trying to fix that by hand by popping new NPCs or alternative paths and then it all goes out of hand, unless you make key NPCs immortal - but then, you again break game logic and player's immersion.

Ability to kill any NPC is something you just have to deal with somehow if you have non-menu towns. It's non-optional.
You might put in extra work ensuring game is finishable.
You might put in extra work ensuring that the game is finishable provided player's murder spree is of "reasonable" size.
You might put in some extra work ensuring that if the game dead ends, it dead ends hard, fast, loudly and inevitably.
You might put in Morrowind style "you've done fucked up" pop-ups and let player play in the unsolvable state if they wish so.

Or you might make NPCs unkillable/unassailable but that's almost universally shit (cue Paul Denton's deadly rampage of hilarity) - just go Morrowind instead if you can't be arsed.

You're the residential simulationist, and prefer your NPCs mashing anvil with hammer JRPG style?

Uh, better than the other way around, I guess?
That would be weird.

DOS already had houses, taverns, and property. Larian went extremely far with placing every wardrobe and every silver spoon and every chair. And then they mostly abandoned the whole thing, leaving it as another area to loot.

And it has property flags, theft detection, no clear distinction between static and portable object, and objects with HP bar. So it's 90% there.

I assume you played Morrowind in 40 minute sessions and then did 20 minute breaks like your doctor told you?

Morrowind had time-scaling to alleviate downscaling problems.
Normal Earth day is 24h long. I assume it isn't much different in Faerun.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Petition to rename this game to Baldur's Gate and send it to Larian?

Baldur's Gate
Icewind Dale
Neverwinter Night

fuck off from all that 3 names

name this Pool of Radiance or some old TB D&D game like Forgotten Realm Adventure or something

 

[Saravan]

So you're saying you'd prefer if this game was just called Baldur's Gate?

I think you are on to something. If it was just called Baldur's Gate you would know instantly it's just for name branding, and a reboot of the series. I don't think people would have as much trouble with it then, considering the changes. Could be wrong though, but I feel putting a 3 behind is has more of an impact and expectation from people.

Most people see just a new RPG on the market, then you have fans of previous Larian games who don't give a shit about the name and certainly don't put much weight on an advertised sequel to BG.

Then you got the old BG fans who have mixed feelings to this actually being a sequel in any sense of the word.

THEN you got the mega autists whose life are defined by the two previous games and are writing a master thesis on how Larian are shitting all over their childhood.

Don't mistake internet nerdrage as representative of the market majority.

 

[Lacrymas]

Baldur's Gate
Icewind Dale
Neverwinter Night

fuck off from all that 3 names

name this Pool of Radiance or some old TB D&D game like Forgotten Realm Adventure or something

They are obviously using the name as brand recognition. If being named Baldur's Gate is what it takes for us to get a faithful 5E D&D TB RPG, I don't care. This obsession with "purity" is inane.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Implying anything good can come off 5e.

 

[Chunkyman]

name this Pool of Radiance or some old TB D&D game like Forgotten Realm Adventure or something

I would guess that WotC made them use "Baldur's Gate" in the title as a condition of being given the license, which makes sense as it's to the benefit of both parties (WotC gets cross-promotional sales and Larian gets the added boost from brand recognition).

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Baldur's Gate
Icewind Dale
Neverwinter Night

fuck off from all that 3 names

name this Pool of Radiance or some old TB D&D game like Forgotten Realm Adventure or something

They are obviously using the name as brand recognition. If being named Baldur's Gate is what it takes for us to get a faithful 5E D&D TB RPG, I don't care. This obsession with "purity" is inane.

Larian doesn't really need brand recognition. Their Studio is brand recognition.

Name modern non-indie studios making TB CRPG.

1. Larian

2. Inexile

That's it. With the exception of Wasteland 2 which was rather mediocre in all aspects, Inexile games are pretty much divisive games with troubled development cycles. Larian iliterally is in two studios niche where the other guy is known to be incompetent. No other AA Studio (and by this game, AAA) makes successful TB CRPG as Larian did.

D&D Lovers probably will gobble up any game with 5E adaptation to begin with, not to mention its made by the only non-indie studio who is successful with the genre in,I don't know, the last half decade?

People who never played the original will probably only Youtube it and see how different the gameplay is.

The naming only serves to piss off people who actually like the old games for what they are.

 

[NJClaw]

Petition to rename this game to Baldur's Gate and send it to Larian?

Baldur's Gate
Icewind Dale
Neverwinter Night

fuck off from all that 3 names

name this Pool of Radiance or some old TB D&D game like Forgotten Realm Adventure or something

"Just make less money you fucking jews"

name this Pool of Radiance or some old TB D&D game like Forgotten Realm Adventure or something

I would guess that WotC made them use "Baldur's Gate" in the title as a condition of being given the license, which makes sense as it's to the benefit of both parties (WotC gets cross-promotional sales and Larian gets the added boost from brand recognition).

That's what I thought in the beginning, but then in an interview Mearls said that Larian approached them with the precise idea of making a Baldur's Gate sequel. Obviously it's impossible to know how much is true and how much is simple publicity

 

[Lacrymas]

They are obviously using the name as brand recognition. If being named Baldur's Gate is what it takes for us to get a faithful 5E D&D TB RPG, I don't care. This obsession with "purity" is inane.

Larian doesn't really need brand recognition. Their Studio is brand recognition.

Name modern non-indie studios making TB CRPG.

1. Larian

2. Inexile

That's it. With the exception of Wasteland 2 which was rather mediocre in all aspects, Inexile games are pretty much divisive games with troubled development cycles. Larian is literally is in two studios niche where the other guy is known to be incompetent. No other AA Studio (and by this game, AAA) makes successful TB CRPG as Larian did.

D&D Lovers probably will gobble up any game with 5E adaptation to begin with, not to mention its made by the only non-indie studio who is successful with the genre in,I don't know, the last half decade?

People who never played the original will probably only Youtube it and see how different the gameplay is.

The naming only serves to piss off people who actually like the old games for what they are.

By their own estimations, they will sell more copies if they name it Baldur's Gate. Which is fine by me, it's better to use that name than to commit another crime against humanity like Fallout 3. And as you can see, everywhere is being talked about this, so bonus points for PR.

 

[NJClaw]

Larian doesn't really need brand recognition. Their Studio is brand recognition.

Name modern non-indie studios making TB CRPG.

1. Larian

2. Inexile

That's it. With the exception of Wasteland 2 which was rather mediocre in all aspects, Inexile games are pretty much divisive games with troubled development cycles. Larian is literally is in two studios niche where the other guy is known to be incompetent. No other AA Studio (and by this game, AAA) makes successful TB CRPG as Larian did.

D&D Lovers probably will gobble up any game with 5E adaptation to begin with, not to mention its made by the only non-indie studio who is successful with the genre in,I don't know, the last half decade?

People who never played the original will probably only Youtube it and see how different the gameplay is.

The naming only serves to piss off people who actually like the old games for what they are.

So the name is enough to spawn a 500 pages thread, but it has no marketing power. Okay.

As I have already said, I know at least 10 people who will buy this game only because its called Baldur's Gate. They have never touched 5E and have never heard "Larian" before

 

[DraQ]

Baldur's Gate
Icewind Dale
Neverwinter Night

fuck off from all that 3 names

name this Pool of Radiance or some old TB D&D game like Forgotten Realm Adventure or something

Shh... Ontopoly said it's ok.

 

[DraQ]

Implying anything good can come off 5e.

It already has:
Moving on from 4e.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Implying anything good can come off 5e.

It already has:
Moving on from 4e.

good point.

 

[Elex]

So the name is enough to spawn a 500 pages thread, but it has no marketing power. Okay.

As I have already said, I know at least 10 people who will buy this game only because its called Baldur's Gate. They have never touched 5E and have never heard "Larian" before

this is why the game use the 5e ruleset, videogame are promotional material for the books not the reverse.

 

[mondblut]

If they follow the lore, you don't have 7 days. You have a maximum of 20 hours if most of your stats are at 20 (which they won't be) unless someone spams restoration on you. Then you become a vegetable/dead.

Ha. Every once in a while, some alternately developed individual pops up at the kodex saying "hai, wouldn't it be awesome to have a sort of reverse RPG where you start as a demigod and then get weaker with every level you gain, huh? the more you work on developing your character the less you can do with him, oh so much fun!11".

I suppose Larian has listened?

 

[DraQ]

this is why the game use the 5e ruleset, videogame are promotional material for the books not the reverse.

They tried to use WOW as 4e promotional material, but it seems to have backfired.

Ha. Every once in a while, some alternately developed individual pops up at the kodex saying "hai, wouldn't it be awesome to have a sort of reverse RPG where you start as a demigod and then get weaker with every level you gain, huh? the more you work on developing your character the less you can do with him, oh so much fun!11".

That was Oblivion.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Younger folks like to coop because they can shit-talk and joke with their friends throughout the whole game, ignoring the story and laugh together at the umpteenth fireball threw at the cute talking squirrel. They play the game like they are playing Saints Row.

They don't care about atmosphere or day night cycles. Those are in the 12-18 age range, and they are the majority of people who enjoyed Dos 2 and will buy Baldur's Gate 3, thus defending Larian no matter what.

That's my impression, I can be wrong of course.

I actually think this may be accurate. There is a fundamental difference between the type of player who likes to get deeply involved by themselves into the game and the co-op people who play with bro's and just blindly fly through the game and hardly notice anything. And this is why its always such a weird thing to me that it is this 2nd type of person, the one who does not pay much attention to the world or to detail that cares very much about games having the most modern and up to date graphics.

Yet they play the game and just barley pay attention to any of it and miss all the detail. Its such a weird contradiction. The developers put so much time and effort and money into something that a bunch of co-op tards sitting on a couch 30 feet from a TV goofing off with their friends will not even notice really. They might bitch and moan for weeks if somebody alerted them to the fact ray tracing was absent from the game, but once the game begins they won't notice or admire any of it. I guess this is part of the consoomer meme

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

That's my impression, I can be wrong of course.

I know a normie couple that usually plays Action/FPSs (dude) and Zelda (girl) and wouldn't touch an even remotely oldschool RPG turn-based anything under normal circumstances. They enjoy playing that game together to the point they played through it a couple of times, trying new builds and new approaches to combat, solving riddles to the best of their abilities (e.g. trying to figure things out on their own for a while and then google the solution if it eludes them) and they even bought DivOS1 after cause they wanted to experience more of it. They are playing story mode for sure but they are having a great time and enjoy combat as well as atmosphere and story. Which is exactly what Sven initially wanted of the game (part of the original pitch being 'I want to play a deep turn based RPG on the couch with my girlfriend').

Of course this is purely anecdotal but considering the sales numbers I think Larian managed to penetrate relatively deeply into normal mainstream with this type of game somehow. Its not just 12yr olds fucking around.

"on the couch"

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Younger folks like to coop because they can shit-talk and joke with their friends throughout the whole game, ignoring the story and laugh together at the umpteenth fireball threw at the cute talking squirrel. They play the game like they are playing Saints Row.

They don't care about atmosphere or day night cycles. Those are in the 12-18 age range, and they are the majority of people who enjoyed Dos 2 and will buy Baldur's Gate 3, thus defending Larian no matter what.

That's my impression, I can be wrong of course.

I actually think this may be accurate. There is a fundamental difference between the type of player who likes to get deeply involved by themselves into the game and the co-op people who play with bro's and just blindly fly through the game and hardly notice anything. And this is why its always such a weird thing to me that it is this 2nd type of person, the one who does not pay much attention to the world or to detail that cares very much about games having the most modern and up to date graphics.

Yet they play the game and just barley pay attention to any of it and miss all the detail. Its such a weird contradiction. The developers put so much time and effort and money into something that a bunch of co-op tards sitting on a couch 30 feet from a TV goofing off with their friends will not even notice really. They might bitch and moan for weeks if somebody alerted them to the fact ray tracing was absent from the game, but once the game begins they won't notice or admire any of it. I guess this is part of the consoomer meme

Honestly it depends on the genre for me, but "supposedly Hardcore" CRPGs are IMO a bad pairing for coop.

 

[Shadenuat]

Larian doesn't really need brand recognition. Their Studio is brand recognition.

Exactly. What we see here, is that after sucess of DOS2, WoTC provided them with a deal one couldn't refuse. And now we see all the trampling over old graves.

On the power of Larian and Swen's 18 Charisma and D&D name alone, they could have lifted off a completely new super saga without any extra baggage to hold them, and all they would have gained is universal love and acclaim.

But they just had to poke the beloved zombie with a cattle prod hadn't they.

And holy shit, they might have picked something else but Faerun at this point.

 

[NJClaw]

I don't understand why you assume that every Baldur's Gate fanboy is also interested in D&D. I know a lot of Baldur's Gate fans that are not even interested in other IE or D&D related videogames.

Not everyone is devoted to the genre like everyone here is assuming.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

yes you camp in the day, then you sleep all day and then its day time. If you are attacked while asleep, its day time.

I expect it to be night time if you get attacked in your sleep.
We have already seen (a) night-time camp map. It would be illogical to have a night time camp map for camping, get attacked during the night while camping in the camp map and then not have the actual combat happen at night and in the camp map where you were attacked while camping and at night.

You see, that's the recurring theme of this thread and it's main problem - people getting so butthurt that it clouds not only their mental faculties but even their basic senses.
You have SEEN the camp map and have SEEN it was night time, and yet you think that any combat that should happen there won't happen there because?

Honestly, this is decline, simplifying from what has already existed in the genre. I expect them to leave resting, camping out because of this or just really gloss over it, Meanwhile Owlcat expands on the concept and even has seasons and it snows and shit.

So did Daggerfall. But level of detail needs to be consistent.

If you have NPC activity you'll probably need NPCs to change their schedule and garb based on the time of the year. That would be fucking awesome, but it's another 4x multiplier to workload. After already adding something like 4x multiplier, so it's about 16x total. That's how you get wapourvare or so-broken-it-won't-even-run games.

you are over complicating it. Just do it visually at the bare minimum, games have been doing this forever. They hired 350 people, I really don't think its that much to ask for it to get dark and light. Don't have to have all the reactivity to go with it. Yeah you might have to have some people appear or not appear, but what is the plan? That they are going to be static and not move and just stand in place 24X7? They are going to be moving around anyway right? Its okay for some of these 350 people to work on the game, I am not even saying they should add in any game play elements about it, just make it visual and yes the NPC's might have to move about, but they will hopefully be doing this anyway. I also realize this is pointless, they are not adding it, so I am just arguing for the sake of arguing....so anyway..

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Younger folks like to coop because they can shit-talk and joke with their friends throughout the whole game, ignoring the story and laugh together at the umpteenth fireball threw at the cute talking squirrel. They play the game like they are playing Saints Row.

They don't care about atmosphere or day night cycles. Those are in the 12-18 age range, and they are the majority of people who enjoyed Dos 2 and will buy Baldur's Gate 3, thus defending Larian no matter what.

That's my impression, I can be wrong of course.

I actually think this may be accurate. There is a fundamental difference between the type of player who likes to get deeply involved by themselves into the game and the co-op people who play with bro's and just blindly fly through the game and hardly notice anything. And this is why its always such a weird thing to me that it is this 2nd type of person, the one who does not pay much attention to the world or to detail that cares very much about games having the most modern and up to date graphics.

Yet they play the game and just barley pay attention to any of it and miss all the detail. Its such a weird contradiction. The developers put so much time and effort and money into something that a bunch of co-op tards sitting on a couch 30 feet from a TV goofing off with their friends will not even notice really. They might bitch and moan for weeks if somebody alerted them to the fact ray tracing was absent from the game, but once the game begins they won't notice or admire any of it. I guess this is part of the consoomer meme

Honestly it depends on the genre for me, but "supposedly Hardcore" CRPGs are IMO a bad pairing for coop.

I never liked to co-op because I liked to take my time and read stuff, most other people I have noticed just run by and miss half the fun stuff laying around. I don't know why they bother with the genre if they play like that. Then they complain sometimes they can't figure stuff out, when really they just blow right past clues and chests and cabinets and people to talk to. But I tried playing co-op once for like 10 minutes and the do whined I was reading weapon description. Anyway, I agree unless you found somebody with a very similar temperament.

 

[Ontopoly]

If the game was called something like Baldur's Gate : attack of ilithid or whatever I wouldn't mind. The same way I don't mind that the dark alliances exist. With Baldur's Gate 3 it's clear that they want to use Baldur's Gate 3 for their own means and they aren't giving it the proper respect it deserves. Games like Baldur's Gate, fall out, Ultima and wizardry and a couple others deserve proper respect in my mind. These are the games that have had major influence on the genre. And any disrespect towards them is disrespect to the genre. I'm not keen on having another fallout 3. I think people underestimate the impact Baldur's Gate has had on our lives. If you didn't enjoy it for whatever reason, chances are you enjoyed some games where the developer was inspired by it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

If they follow the lore, you don't have 7 days. You have a maximum of 20 hours if most of your stats are at 20 (which they won't be) unless someone spams restoration on you. Then you become a vegetable/dead.

Ha. Every once in a while, some alternately developed individual pops up at the kodex saying "hai, wouldn't it be awesome to have a sort of reverse RPG where you start as a demigod and then get weaker with every level you gain, huh? the more you work on developing your character the less you can do with him, oh so much fun!11".

I suppose Larian has listened?

There's an rpgmaker game about this on Steam that has been mentioned a few times, never tried it.