Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[FranticDistortion]

RTwP is RTS for dumb people.

 

[Anonona]

Larian is right in one thing. RtWP is chaotic and i like exactly because of it...

I have seen this argument thrown around quite a lot. It is both untrue, and actually harmful when it comes to defending RtwP. RtwP, specially good ones, are not chaotic. Yes, they may seem so if you haven't the basic knowledge of the game, but really they are slower RTS, focused on micromanagement. Each round takes at least 6 seconds, which is enough time to surmise information of what is going on, not to speak of being able to pause and go through your log at your own leisure. Yes, sometimes actions activate at roughly the same time, but as they are still reign by the PnP system, which were turn based, and initiative dictates the action order, often times what looks like a simultaneous attack gets resolved as if one of the attackers went first, so in truth, this "chaos" doesn't really exist, just a system of turns and rounds masked by the system. Yet if it did, then it would validate the criticism often labeled at RtwP in that it makes battle a visual clusterfuck in which information is relied in a very precarious manner, which in turn means that the player is either forced to pause constantly, slowing battle to a crawl, or encounters have to be simple and not require too much tactical thinking to avoid the player becoming overwhelmed, which is not the case (at least not always). Hell, it actually more annoying if you compare to a PnP session, were a critical or unpredictable result can make a battle become really chaotic while still being turn based. Hell, I'll say, unless you are playing multiplayer, not a single game, neither RtpW nor TB can be really chaotic unless some crazy shit like Wild Magic is involved or some RNG effects that can dramatically change the flow of combat. If anything, RtwP being more "chaotic" is an argument that, at least to me. sounds more like the argument of RtwP being more "realilstic" and "immersive", as there are not turns, just like real life. To be honest, I find this argument stupid, as both turns in TB and Rounds in RtwP, where your character stands around like an idiot for 6 seconds without doing anything (except if you move him), are, when taken at face value, equally retarded. Abstraction is a must. If you want immersion and realistic combat go for some real time game, specially "simulators" like Total War (which funny enough, is real time with pause but without rounds) or Mount and Blade. RtwP has its virtues but being more "chaotic" is not one of them.

 

[Volrath]

Retard time with pause.

 

[Ontopoly]

RTwP is RTS for dumb people.

turn based is just rtwp for dumb people. I don't see any RTWP complaining about RTS being"too Chaotic, can't understand what's happening" but that's all I see from TB purists. I personally think RTS is more strategic than TB and rtwp but rtwp gives you some good character building and other rpg elements which is great. If RTS is more strategic than rtwp, and turn based is further away from RTS than rtwp, what does that make TB?

 

[FranticDistortion]

Larian is right in one thing. RtWP is chaotic and i like exactly because of it...

I have seen this argument thrown around quite a lot. It is both untrue, and actually harmful when it comes to defending RtwP. RtwP, specially good ones, are not chaotic. Yes, they may seem so if you haven't the basic knowledge of the game, but really they are slower RTS, focused on micromanagement. Each round takes at least 6 seconds, which is enough time to surmise information of what is going on, not to speak of being able to pause and go through your log at your own leisure. Yes, sometimes actions activate at roughly the same time, but as they are still reign by the PnP system, which were turn based, and initiative dictates the action order, often times what looks like a simultaneous attack gets resolved as if one of the attackers went first, so in truth, this "chaos" doesn't really exist, just a system of turns and rounds masked by the system. Yet if it did, then it would validate the criticism often labeled at RtwP in that it makes battle a visual clusterfuck in which information is relied in a very precarious manner, which in turn means that the player is either forced to pause constantly, slowing battle to a crawl, or encounters have to be simple and not require too much tactical thinking to avoid the player becoming overwhelmed, which is not the case (at least not always). Hell, it actually more annoying if you compare to a PnP session, were a critical or unpredictable result can make a battle become really chaotic while still being turn based. Hell, I'll say, unless you are playing multiplayer, not a single game, neither RtpW nor TB can be really chaotic unless some crazy shit like Wild Magic is involved or some RNG effects that can dramatically change the flow of combat. If anything, RtwP being more "chaotic" is an argument that, at least to me. sounds more like the argument of RtwP being more "realilstic" and "immersive", as there are not turns, just like real life. To be honest, I find this argument stupid, as both turns in TB and Rounds in RtwP, where your character stands around like an idiot for 6 seconds without doing anything (except if you move him), are, when taken at face value, equally retarded. Abstraction is a must. If you want immersion and realistic combat go for some real time game, specially "simulators" like Total War (which funny enough, is real time with pause but without rounds) or Mount and Blade. RtwP has its virtues but being more "chaotic" is not one of them.

"which in turn means that the player is either forced to pause constantly, slowing battle to a crawl, or encounters have to be simple and not require too much tactical thinking to avoid the player becoming overwhelmed"
I only know one RTWP game that doesn't suffer from one of these though.

 

[FranticDistortion]

RTwP is RTS for dumb people.

turn based is just rtwp for dumb people. I don't see any RTWP complaining about RTS being"too Chaotic, can't understand what's happening" but that's all I see from TB purists. I personally think RTS is more strategic than TB and rtwp but rtwp gives you some good character building and other rpg elements which is great. If RTS is more strategic than rtwp, and turn based is further away from RTS than rtwp, what does that make TB?

RTwP is also Turn-Based for dumb people. Double dumb.

 

[Ontopoly]

There's nothing wrong with pausing a lot in rtwp, that's what it's for. Only an idiot who thinks too highly of himself would be afraid of using a feature like that too much. Rtwp is not better because it's faster, it is better because it lets you react to the battle as it's happening, worry more about positioning, makes you pay attention to the battle instead of spelling everything out to you, etc...

Edits in bold. I kind of fucked that up.

 

[Dramart]

Divinity OS games are for dumb people

 

[NJClaw]

They tried to use WOW as 4e promotional material, but it seems to have backfired.


That was Oblivion.

They used neverwinter the mmo and sword coast legend.

Sword Coast Legends was released a year after the release of the 5th edition

 

[NJClaw]

So, these are the conclusions so far:
- TB is RTwP for dumb people;
- RTwP is TB for dumb people.

This is getting interesting, please continue.

 

[Lacrymas]

pomenitul, you seem uncharacteristically butthurt over this game.

 

[Anonona]

There's nothing wrong with pausing a lot in rtwp, that's what it's for.

This

Rtwp is better because it's faster, it lets you react to the battle as it's happening, worry more about positioning, makes you pay attention to the battle instead of spelling everything out to you, etc...

Contradict this. If you are pausing constantly to issues orders, combat isn't going faster, not are you reacting to things as they happen, you do not change orders mid combat quickly: you see an enemy, pause, issue order, unpause, see results. Also, the fuck do you mean it doesn't spell anything to you? Good RtwP ALWAYS spell what is going on to you. Movement is told visually, enemy and character placement is told visually, everything else is in your log, every single detail and roll. Just like TB, literally the same, you gather the same information in the same manner. I have even seen shitty TB that spawns enemies without properly telling you, and they fuck you over because you don't realize that they are next in turn, which isn't that much different as shitty RtwP spawning enemies behind you for no reason (like fucking Dragon Age 2). Again, this is not the strength of RtwP and you are hurting your own point.

For example, one really good thing of RtwP is that it allows for massive combat and bigger parties without slowing the action down too much, as long as it uses a system with simple melee classes that don't requite micromanagement. Next Pathfinder for example already have footage of big battles with multiple group of soldiers fighting all over the map, and having a small army backing up the player's party. RtwP allows for fights and encounters that would be too much of a hassle in TB, while TB usually helps with more micromanaging heavy small encounters.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

rtwp is retarded because it's meant to be an adaptation of a turn-based game
hope that clears things up

 

[The_Mask]

RtwP vs TB feels like The Blood War.

 

[Quillon]

TB is ONLY easier to manage, its not more tactical nor more this and that. "turn based lovers"(lol) are perpetually butthurt & in denial with this FACT, causes them to randomly attack other systems even when they have what they want as per itt. Just accept the fact, stop trying to justify and say its your preference instead of constant bullshitting.

 

[pomenitul]

pomenitul, you seem uncharacteristically butthurt over this game.

BG was my first love, my gateway into the world of RPGs. I am bound to be more conservative in my appraisal of what currently promises to be a textbook case of shameless misappropriation. I also just happen to find Larian's previous efforts supremely unsatisfying, no doubt because I am generally more of an atmosphere/storyfag than most of those who haunt the Codex. Larian-does-D&D sans the trappings of Baldur's Gate wouldn't have bothered me at all, however.

 

[Parabalus]

TB is wasted on RPGs because their combat is too simple, leave that stuff for tactical games.

Imagine those gibberlings at start of BG1 or the battle vs Kuo-Toa spam in BG2, you'd die of boredom waiting for the turns.

 

[NJClaw]

TB is wasted on RPGs because their combat is too simple, leave that stuff for tactical games.

Imagine those gibberlings at start of BG1 or the battle vs Kuo-Toa spam in BG2, you'd die of boredom waiting for the turns.

Imagine having interesting battles instead

 

[Lacrymas]

Imagine those gibberlings at start of BG1 or the battle vs Kuo-Toa spam in BG2, you'd die of boredom waiting for the turns.

Or, or, hear me out here I'm gonna make another spicy take - they let us skip animations.

BG was my first love, my gateway into the world of RPGs.

That just proves love is an awful poison running in our veins.

 

[Harthwain]

TB is ONLY easier to manage, its not more tactical nor more this and that.

Turn-based is tactical in the sense that you have to commit to your choices, which makes action management very important.

Imagine those gibberlings at start of BG1 or the battle vs Kuo-Toa spam in BG2, you'd die of boredom waiting for the turns.

Or, or, hear me out here I'm gonna make another spicy take - they let us skip animations.

Or they will make fights smaller, but more meaningful?

 

[Ontopoly]

There's nothing wrong with pausing a lot in rtwp, that's what it's for.

This

Rtwp is better because it's faster, it lets you react to the battle as it's happening, worry more about positioning, makes you pay attention to the battle instead of spelling everything out to you, etc...

Contradict this. If you are pausing constantly to issues orders, combat isn't going faster,

Sorry that was a stupid typo. I meant isn't faster. Isn't. My bad.

Also, the fuck do you mean it doesn't spell anything to you? Good RtwP ALWAYS spell what is going on to you.

What I mean by this is you actually have to pay attention to what's happening, the camera doesn't focus on the only action happening at the time, consider the whole sentence when you respond to one.

Again, this is not the strength of RtwP and you are hurting your own point.

My points are better than anything you've put out, you fence sitting cuck.

not are you reacting to things as they happen, you do not change orders mid combat quickly: you see an enemy, pause, issue order, unpause, see results. Also, the fuck do you mean it doesn't spell anything to you?

You can totally react to things in rtwp. You've never given someone a command then changed it before it happened? You just give a command and hope it works out? Also reacting to something when it's happening means when an enemy is running at your mage you can send someone to intercept them while its still happening, where in turn based you would just watch it then react later during your turn.

I get it, I messed up a word and it caused some confusion, (your grammar isn't perfect either) but if you weren't too busy jerking yourself off thinking your the only one who knows the benefits of rtwp and nothing else matters, then maybe you would have actually understood the rest of what I was saying.

 

[pomenitul]

That just proves love is an awful poison running in our veins.

Perhaps. On the other hand, I suspect Larian doesn't have much love for the BG IP beyond the windfall it will undoubtedly precipitate, and that is part of the problem. But yes, detachment is likelier to lead to enjoyment here, provided one is willing to go down that route.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You can totally react to things in rtwp. You've never given someone a command then changed it before it happened? You just give a command and hope it works out? Also reacting to something when it's happening means when an enemy is running at your mage you can send someone to intercept them while its still happening, where in turn based you would just watch it then react later during your turn.

in turn based you shouldn't put your mage in a bad position to begin with and you'd get punished for doing so
rtwp is retard friendly

 

[Ontopoly]

You can totally react to things in rtwp. You've never given someone a command then changed it before it happened? You just give a command and hope it works out? Also reacting to something when it's happening means when an enemy is running at your mage you can send someone to intercept them while its still happening, where in turn based you would just watch it then react later during your turn.

in turn based you shouldn't put your mage in a bad position to begin with and you'd get punished for doing so
rtwp is retard friendly

In turn based I would just put my mage far enough that nothing would be able to reach it in a single turn. Rtwp would punish me for leaving my mage open because the enemy would be able to run at them until they reach them, I wouldn't have 6 turns too deal with him, he would keep hitting my mage until it's dealt with. If I mess up my mage positioning, rtwp will punish me for it but also give me some way to react to it while in turn based the enemy would get a single hit (possibly) then stand there while I kill him by the time he can move again. Which one of those sounds more punishing to you?

 

[jackofshadows]

So, these are the conclusions so far:
- TB is RTwP for dumb people;
- RTwP is TB for dumb people.

This is getting interesting, please continue.

Finally. Both systems are for retards, don't you see?! Games in general are for retards who can't (properly) escape real problems. Fucking codex is degrading people into fucking dust. It should be fucking illegal.