Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Shadenuat]

Oh I see we're back at square one

 

[Ontopoly]

So, these are the conclusions so far:
- TB is RTwP for dumb people;
- RTwP is TB for dumb people.

This is getting interesting, please continue.

Finally. Both systems are for retards, don't you see?! Games in general are for retards who can't (properly) escape real problems. Fucking codex is degrading people into fucking dust. It should be fucking illegal.

You know what's even more stupid? Two fence sitters jerking themselves off for not committing to a side. Both sides suck, I'm glad you two are so above it all.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Which one of those sounds more punishing to you?

The one that gives the AI more time to compute.

 

[Harthwain]

Oh I see we're back at square one

Just treat it like an exercise: repetition, repetition...

You know what's even more stupid? Two fence sitters jerking themselves off for not committing to a side. Both sides suck, I'm glad you two are so above it all.

Yeah, because one can't recognize that both systems are different and liking one over the other is mostly the matter of personal preference. You have to blindly and wholly support one or the other. Fucking dumbass...

 

[Lacrymas]

That just proves love is an awful poison running in our veins.

Perhaps. On the other hand, I suspect Larian doesn't have much love for the BG IP beyond the windfall it will undoubtedly precipitate, and that is part of the problem. But yes, detachment is likelier to lead to enjoyment here, provided one is willing to go down that route.

It depends on what you perceive as "Larian". I couldn't find information about Swen's relationship with the BGs, but I kinda have this recollection he stated somewhere it was one of his favorites games. I might be mistaken. Either way, I've never had the impression Larian are like EA or Ubisoft, I feel they actually like games themselves. How do you quantify that, though? Since they are such a big company, who exactly needs to love games/BGs to satisfy you or anyone? I'd say you are a bit uncharacteristically oversensitive on this issue, especially since we haven't seen a lot from this game yet. There was no way they were going to make a 2D RPG with no cinematic dialogues, we knew this from the very beginning because of the high fidelity models. There's also the fact a lot of RPGs were made recently and are being made, I'm quite looking forward to Realms Beyond for example, so if this turns out to be a dud there are other offerings.

 

[Ontopoly]

Yeah, because one can't recognize that both systems are different and liking one over the other is mostly the matter of personal preference. You have to blindly and wholly support one or the other. Fucking dumbass...

There's a difference between talking about the pros and cons of both sides and just calling anyone who argues for a side retarded.

 

[Cryomancer]

But that's like saying "this tastes like shit, but that's why I like it".

No, is because everything can happens fast and more impracticable than turn based. I also enjoy turn based games like ToEE but the fact is that games played in turn based takes way more time and are much slower than RtWP

 

[vortex]

You can't rationalize which is better because they are extremely DIFFERENT modes. Each mode is doing it's own stuff for better or for worse. Each person loves one more than the other. /thread

 

[Saravan]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

 

[rusty_shackleford]

turn based is better because the ruleset is turn-based
if you're going to make it real time you might as well just throw the entire ruleset out the window because it's not even remotely the same game anymore
not sure why that's hard to grasp

 

[Ontopoly]

You can't rationalize which is better because they are vastly DIFFERENT modes. Each mode is doing it's own stuff for better or for worse. Each person loves one more than the other. /thread

It's just the end of this discussion in the thread, not the end of the thread. We still have to talk about why Larian chose the name bg3 again.

 

[Harthwain]

There's a difference between talking about the pros and cons of both sides and just calling anyone who argues for a side retarded.

Says someone who called somebody a "fence sitting cuck" for no reason at all doing exactly that... The irony.

 

[pomenitul]

you are a bit uncharacteristically oversensitive on this issue

The writing appears to be utterly abysmal thus far, exhibiting none of the original BGs' relative efficiency. Anyhow, if they manage to clean that up (they won't, if the self-conscious shift from D:OS1 to 2 is anything to go by) and use the reskin as a springboard towards a more idiomatic visual identity (perhaps they will), I may yet be swayed into giving the game a shot. There is still time, but hope is no less of a poison.

 

[Lacrymas]

Real Time and TB are different in the meaningful sense where there is a legitimate choice and an actual design decision. RTwP is inbred.

you are a bit uncharacteristically oversensitive on this issue

The writing appears to be utterly abysmal thus far, exhibiting none of the original BGs' relative efficiency. Anyhow, if they manage to clean that up (they won't, if the self-conscious shift from D:OS1 to 2 is anything to go by) and use the reskin as a springboard towards a more idiomatic visual identity (perhaps they will), I may yet be swayed into giving the game a shot. There is still time, but hope is no less of a poison.

Hope is indeed a cruel mistress, but I'd say there is no hope for the writing. We know it's going to be garbage, so it's better to set our expectations accordingly.

 

[Parabalus]

Imagine those gibberlings at start of BG1 or the battle vs Kuo-Toa spam in BG2, you'd die of boredom waiting for the turns.

Or, or, hear me out here I'm gonna make another spicy take - they let us skip animations.

Or they will make fights smaller, but more meaningful?

Not every game can be AoD, and that approach isn't really liked too much, even among the Kodex.

People say they want meaningful fights, but then they fail and start crying.

 

[vortex]

turn based is better because the ruleset is turn-based
if you're going to make it real time you might as well just throw the entire ruleset out the window because it's not even remotely the same game anymore
not sure why that's hard to grasp

CRPG is NOT tabletop. No one has made the law it should be taken into the computer game as TB.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

RTwP is RTS for dumb people.

That's MOBAs.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

turn based is better because the ruleset is turn-based
if you're going to make it real time you might as well just throw the entire ruleset out the window because it's not even remotely the same game anymore
not sure why that's hard to grasp

CRPG is NOT tabletop. No one has made the law it should be taken into the computer game as TB.

then play games that aren't adaptations of tabletop, genius

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I, uh...

Well, I guess...

Rusty, I think you should stand this one down.

 

[vortex]

I, uh...
I think you should stand this one down.

I'm not a fighter in that sense. I only fight with wurds and my poor vocabulary. En garde wurds!

 

[Anonona]

Also, the fuck do you mean it doesn't spell anything to you? Good RtwP ALWAYS spell what is going on to you.

What I mean by this is you actually have to pay attention to what's happening, the camera doesn't focus on the only action happening at the time, consider the whole sentence when you respond to one.

You state this in your post.

here's nothing wrong with pausing a lot in rtwp, that's what it's for. Only an idiot who thinks too highly of himself would be afraid of using a feature like that too much. Rtwp is not better because it's faster, it is better because it lets you react to the battle as it's happening, worry more about positioning, makes you pay attention to the battle instead of spelling everything out to you, etc...

You never mention anything about where the camera is focused. You are stating this after the fact. And really, following what happens to your units its not even that complicated to follow, games usually have numerous feedbacks on the form of audio cues and the like. It really doesn't demand much more when it comes to pay attention at what is going on. Again, you are given a lot of time to react.

Again, this is not the strength of RtwP and you are hurting your own point.

My points are better than anything you've put out, you fence sitting cuck.

Seems like you are quite mad. Guess if you don't have arguments, you relay to say "nuh, I'm right you, c-cuck". You embarrass yourself with comment like this. Also I enjoy both systems, and I'm not going to change my opinion not compromise. If I think both have their worth, then I will say so.

not are you reacting to things as they happen, you do not change orders mid combat quickly: you see an enemy, pause, issue order, unpause, see results. Also, the fuck do you mean it doesn't spell anything to you?

You can totally react to things in rtwp. You've never given someone a command then changed it before it happened? You just give a command and hope it works out? Also reacting to something when it's happening means when an enemy is running at your mage you can send someone to intercept them while its still happening, where in turn based you would just watch it then react later during your turn.

Funny you say I don't read what your write and then you throw this at me. I never said you cannot react to things, you stated that it was one of its strength, when in reality it is not so different to TB.

You wrote it yourself

where in turn based you would just watch it then react later during your turn.

Both system allows for the player to react. Sure, because movement is usually free in RtwP, you can change after giving an order, but because it follows the rules of rounds and initiative, once the order is executed, there is no turning back. Movement is exempt from this because it doesn't follow the PnP rules and you can move whenever. Furthermore, this bring the issue that the AI cannot do the same nor read what the action of the player is (or at least kind of, they are just not programmed to react to it). In a way this brings a kind of unbalance that doesn't exists in PnP. You can see what the enemies action will be, but not you. The reason the "Ready" actions are gone in RtwP is because that aspect of predicting the enemies actions is gone, as you can change what you are going to do and see what the enemy will do. And even then many will consider this lack of commitment a negative aspect of the system. Sure you may like it, but it is undeniable that it does take away some very interesting aspects of the original system.

I get it, I messed up a word and it caused some confusion, (your grammar isn't perfect either) but if you weren't too busy jerking yourself off thinking your the only one who knows the benefits of rtwp and nothing else matters, then maybe you would have actually understood the rest of what I was saying.

Why are you talking about grammar now? When did I presume mine was perfect? Discussing my views is now thinking I'm right? What are you doing right now then? You made a mistake, it's ok, you clarified yourself and the discussion can go on. No need to be so mad nor feel any kind of insecurity about your grammar or making a mistake, it happens.

Also reading some of your later post, please stop victimizing yourself. You are throwing as many insults as you are receiving, and I never once insulted you.

 

[NJClaw]

So, these are the conclusions so far:
- TB is RTwP for dumb people;
- RTwP is TB for dumb people.

This is getting interesting, please continue.

Finally. Both systems are for retards, don't you see?! Games in general are for retards who can't (properly) escape real problems. Fucking codex is degrading people into fucking dust. It should be fucking illegal.

You know what's even more stupid? Two fence sitters jerking themselves off for not committing to a side. Both sides suck, I'm glad you two are so above it all.

"committing to a side", how old are you?

I am sorry for being able to enjoy both RTwP and TB games, I didn't know it was such a reprehensible crime. I usually find TB to be more "my thing", but there are TB games that I despise and RTwP ones that are among my absolute favorites.
But yeah, you really opened my eyes, not "picking a side" and having fun with more games is definitely stupid, I am gonna stop right now. Tell me, how does it work? If I choose TB, for how long I won't be able to play RTwP games?

 

[NJClaw]

You can totally react to things in rtwp. You've never given someone a command then changed it before it happened? You just give a command and hope it works out? Also reacting to something when it's happening means when an enemy is running at your mage you can send someone to intercept them while its still happening, where in turn based you would just watch it then react later during your turn.

in turn based you shouldn't put your mage in a bad position to begin with and you'd get punished for doing so
rtwp is retard friendly

In turn based I would just put my mage far enough that nothing would be able to reach it in a single turn. Rtwp would punish me for leaving my mage open because the enemy would be able to run at them until they reach them, I wouldn't have 6 turns too deal with him, he would keep hitting my mage until it's dealt with. If I mess up my mage positioning, rtwp will punish me for it but also give me some way to react to it while in turn based the enemy would get a single hit (possibly) then stand there while I kill him by the time he can move again. Which one of those sounds more punishing to you?

You clearly have never played a single TB game, what the fuck are you even talking about

 

[gurugeorge]

I've been out of gaming for a wee while, and look what happens when I come back - great new info re. this game, and the new PK kikcstarter! It's like waiting for buses ...

I can't believe anyone would moan about this being turn-based, btw. RTWP is generally (not in all circumstances, but generally) crappy, and not even in the spirit of D&D; turn-based for this is a definite improvement. I hope Larian look closely at ToEE and the turn-based fan mod that was made for PK.

 

[NJClaw]

I've been out of gaming for a wee while, and look what happens when I come back - great new info re. this game, and the new PK kikcstarter! It's like waiting for buses ...

I can't believe anyone would moan about this being turn-based, btw. RTWP is generally (not in all circumstances, but generally) crappy, and not even in the spirit of D&D; turn-based for this is a definite improvement. I hope Larian look closely at ToEE and the turn-based fan mod that was made for PK.

No, please, don't feed the beast. Please, it's dangerous.

Oh, no.

It's coming.

The Ontopoly's pointless rtwp rant.

We are doomed.