Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Luckmann]

I think we should make a conscious decision to use the word retard in this thread less. Sure we disagree on stuff but at the end of the day people with mental disabilities are still real people and we shouldn't try to dehumanize them.

Do I rate this post "Yes" as in "Yes, we should", or "No" as in "No, I disagree"?

Just rate it cuck and save yourself of a dilemma.

Nah, I figured it out.

 

[passerby]

Actually, what you describes is an example on how rules forces the player to think tactically. They cannot do what they want all the time, RNG plush the flow of combat dictates what are the best and worst decision they can make. They have to account for different factors and have different options, with situations that wouldn't happen if you didn't use those rules. Is like a puzzle which each piece of it being the rules that forms it. If you change the pieces or straight up take them away,you don't have the same puzzle anymore. You may like the new puzzle more or less, but what can't be denied is that it is not the same.

I think we don't share the same definition of tactics, mine is managing and synchronizing units actions and movements in time. How is the game controling the flow and deciding for you when you can do things is forcing you to think tactically.
It removes the very possibility to think tactically at all and replaces it with some abstract puzzle with a very limited player imput, I know that some people find this puzzle more fun than actual tactics, I certainly don't.

In most RtwP actions do not really happen simultaneously. They actually follow the initiative rules of PnP and have rounds systems. Certain things like movement is free, deviating from PnP, but all other actions aren't. I'll say though, what you suggest does make me think that it would be interesting to have a rules light, "simulationist" CRPG, one that discard rounds and AoO, uses physics and hitboxes, and tries to make a combat system that tries to simulate "realistic" fantasy combat. I think maybe Total War kind of do this, but it is a RTSwP, and maybe Spellforce offers a gameplay similar to what you suggest (although it looks too light on the RPG side of things). None of them are proper RPGs though, so maybe someone has a better example than those.

In IE and simillar D&D games, movement is RT, but everything else is constrained by D&D rules within 6s round but presented simultaneously, you can't really adapt D&D into RT any better without changing it into something else.
But even such convulted creation adds tactical possibilities of RT movement, and an advantage of being more dense and not wasting your time.

D&D is simple but to simulate at least partially tactical possibilities of RT in TB you need something as complex as Jagged Alliance 2.
As for example of a proper RTwP tactical fantasy game, there is Aarklash: Legacy unfortunately ruleset is simple and only four units, but as far as core RTwP gameplay and control scheme is concerned, it's good.

 

[User0001]

In turn based I would just put my mage far enough that nothing would be able to reach it in a single turn. Rtwp would punish me for leaving my mage open because the enemy would be able to run at them until they reach them, I wouldn't have 6 turns too deal with him, he would keep hitting my mage until it's dealt with. If I mess up my mage positioning, rtwp will punish me for it but also give me some way to react to it while in turn based the enemy would get a single hit (possibly) then stand there while I kill him by the time he can move again. Which one of those sounds more punishing to you?

Holy shit this is by far the most imbecile thing you have typed. RTwP makes movement free and actions cost animation-time that fills up every six seconds. As soon as you see any enemy start moving to your mage or ranger in RTwP you can start moving them for free for six seconds, use action, free movement, use action, free movement, use action until the enemy finally reaches you. This is the extent of gameplay in all dnd RTwP games to date, and in CONTRARY to your statement ACTUALLY gives you 6 turns to deal with him.
The Real-Time with Benny Hill effect:

The problem with this RTwP vs TB wich one is better DISCUSS, is that few are addressing the heart of the issue here. RTwP seems like it would be a more realistic representation of combat, but without any good means to use special actions like tactical movement, combat maneuvers, free action, bonus action, reaction spell, etc - then what's the point? Real-time works fine in your beloved Age of Empire game where there is no intent to try and simulate what individual combatants are doing at any given moment.
Sure TB foregoes muh real-time realizm but instead gives you tactical realism, good AI and a representation of what you could do in a real-time moment. You could argue that this workes best in a tabletop setting where turns and round can represent more of an abstract.

If you think DnD crpgs are better in RTwP then TB you're retarded because you accept simplicity as long as it feels "more real" (it isn't).

 

[passerby]

Holy shit this is by far the most imbecile thing you have typed. RTwP makes movement free and actions cost animation-time that fills up every six seconds. As soon as you see any enemy start moving to your mage or ranger in RTwP you can start moving them for free for six seconds, use action, free movement, use action, free movement, use action until the enemy finally reaches you. This is the extent of gameplay in all dnd RTwP games to date, and in CONTRARY to your statement ACTUALLY gives you 6 turns to deal with him.
The Real-Time with Benny Hill effect:

If you position you mage far enough, so the enemy can't reach him in a single turn, you can do exactly the same in turn based implementation.

The problem with this RTwP vs TB wich one is better DISCUSS, is that few are addressing the heart of the issue here. RTwP seems like it would be a more realistic representation of combat, but without any good means to use special actions like tactical movement, combat maneuvers, free action, bonus action, reaction spell, etc - then what's the point? Real-time works fine in your beloved Age of Empire game where there is no intent to try and simulate what individual combatants are doing at any given moment.

It's TB that limits possibility of tactical movements, you can pause and issue counterspell and other special active actions, just like you can in TB. How exactly do RTwP makes free and bonus actions impossible ?
RTwP only adds tactical possibilities and saves your time with simultaneous presentation.

In conclusion, if you think DnD crpgs are better in RTwP then TB you're retarded because you accept simplicity as long as it feels "more real" (it isn't).

Simplicity of synchronizing tactical movements in time and reacting to events and complexity of watching units moving one at the time and being told when to pick an action ?

 

[User0001]

If you position you mage far enough, so the enemy can't reach him in a single turn, you can do exactly the same in turn based implementation.

No, you can do it for one turn, contrary to real-time.

It's TB that limits possibility of tactical movements, free and bonus actions are there to emulate shit you can do better by pausing and issuing a new order in RTwP, you can pause and issue counterspell and other special active actions, just like you can in TB.
RTwP only adds tactical possibilities and saves your time with simultaneous presentation.

Do you even know what counterspell is in 5e? Counteractions and reactions in 5e are there to represent what you are trying to do by spamming pause.

Simplicity of synchronizing tactical movements in time and reacting to events and complexity of watching units moving one at the time and being told when to pick an action ?

Simplicity in that you forgo tactical actions that represent what you can do in a combat moment (round/turn).

 

[fantadomat]

Are people still arguing about TB vs RTwP? That will be a fun ride until Early Access comes out.

It is slowing down,the thread pulled only 5 pages for the last 2 days of me playing BG2 and having a blast. While Kingmaker is 10 ahead. After all normal people do get bored reading TB fanatics prising larian and their dumbing down of the game while raping the lore,and just move on. It is going to be a big pile of DOS2 shit relabelled as BG3. Ahhh i mean it is like shit in swiss chocolate pack.

 

[Yosharian]

Holy shit this is by far the most imbecile thing you have typed. RTwP makes movement free and actions cost animation-time that fills up every six seconds. As soon as you see any enemy start moving to your mage or ranger in RTwP you can start moving them for free for six seconds, use action, free movement, use action, free movement, use action until the enemy finally reaches you. This is the extent of gameplay in all dnd RTwP games to date, and in CONTRARY to your statement ACTUALLY gives you 6 turns to deal with him.
The Real-Time with Benny Hill effect:

If you position you mage far enough, so the enemy can't reach him in a single turn, you can do exactly the same in turn based implementation.

That's a little disingenuous, of course it's possible but kiting like that is way, way easier in RTWP than it is in TB.

 

[Lady_Error]

After all normal people do get bored reading TB fanatics prising larian and their dumbing down of the game while raping the lore,and just move on.

Do normal people shitpost daily about a game that they have no interest in playing?

 

[fantadomat]

After all normal people do get bored reading TB fanatics prising larian and their dumbing down of the game while raping the lore,and just move on.

Do normal people shitpost daily about a game that they have no interest in playing?

Don't even do that lol,i post like once every day or two,don't even read anything between the last unread and the last page. Also yeah,i am an edgy fuck that is pissed that one of his favourite franchises is getting raped by swen's wife's boyfriend, Yusuf Un'bongu. Also didn't know that you are such a fan of dumbed down half assed games...

 

[Outlander]

Hey guise what about phase-based.

 

[User0001]

Hey guise what about phase-based.

Lak of conflict

 

[Ontopoly]

Do normal people shitpost daily about a game that they have no interest in playing?

We do when it's going to have a lasting impact on the genre and when it's shitting on something we do love.

 

[Cryomancer]

99% of the guys here who is criticizing BG3 will purchase on the first week.

 

[Ontopoly]

99% of the guys here who is criticizing BG3 will purchase on the first week.

I will not under any circumstances buy this game. Theres a ton of games I'd rather play or replay. I will still be here shit talking it on release day though.

 

[Lady_Error]

I will still be here shit talking it on release day though.

Some people have nothing better to do, I guess. Well, enjoy shit-talking a game that you will never play.

 

[Ontopoly]

Some people have nothing better to do, I guess. Well, enjoy shit-talking a game that you will never play

There's nothing that brings me more joy than showing my passion for things I'm passionate about. I can only hope that my words will have an impact.

 

[Lady_Error]

What impact? Nobody at Larian will read this thread. Even the Steam forums have more of a chance of having an impact.

 

[Ontopoly]

What impact? Nobody at Larian will read this thread. Even the Steam forums have more of a chance of having an impact.

An impact on my fellow codexians. Steamers are a lost cause and I'm banned in the Larian forums. Even if swen read my message he wouldn't care. He's also a lost cause. I can't have an impact on someone who's willing to so blatantly sell out.

 

[passerby]

If you position you mage far enough, so the enemy can't reach him in a single turn, you can do exactly the same in turn based implementation.

That's a little disingenuous, of course it's possible but kiting like that is way, way easier in RTWP than it is in TB.

Of course it's easier in RTwP, because most tactics are more problematic, or stright up impossible to pull off in TB.

Why and how would you like to make kiting impossible anyway? It's just a tactic of running away from a threat after all and it's not without a cost, you can't cast spells while you are doing it.
It's rather an issue to be solved with ai not with gameplay system, to not chase a mage with all units if he starts to run away, for example, or with rules, you can give many monsters faster movement speed than humanoids for example.

 

[Ontopoly]

It's rather an issue to be solved with ai not with gameplay system, to not chase a mage with all units if he starts to run away, for example.

Games already will ignore them eventually in favor of whoever's dealing consistent damage to them. In any modern game if you run away from them and they aren't getting hits they will switch. It's a non-issue

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Of course it's easier in RTwP, because most tactics are more problematic, or stright up impossible to pull off in TB.

you must really suck at chess

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Shadowheart vs Goldmoon, which is better and

yeah Goldmoon is better. riding a winged unicorn

Clyde Caldwell, "Flight from Darkenwood", originally appearing in the 1987 Dragonlance Calendar

 

[Riddler]

99% of the guys here who is criticizing BG3 will purchase on the first week.

I've played DoS2 so unless I see something radically change I don't think I will. DoS has a shit story, shit companions, shit writing in general, shit atmosphere, shit easy combat, slow shit animations, shit Itemisation, shit design aimed at boring coop, etc.

What is BG3 really looking to change? The Itemisation?

Notice how I didn't mention TBvsRtwP?

 

[Harthwain]

Not every game can be AoD, and that approach isn't really liked too much, even among the Kodex.

People say they want meaningful fights, but then they fail and start crying.

I wasn't a big fan of D:OS 1 or 2, but one thing I liked was that fights on Tactician were actually a challenge for me. I would probably got bored much quicker playing on standard difficulty.

Why and how would you like to make kiting impossible anyway? It's just a tactic of running away from a threat after all and it's not without a cost, you can't cast spells while you are doing it. It's rather an issue to be solved with ai not with gameplay system, to not chase a mage with all units if he starts to run away, for example, or with rules, you can give many monsters faster movement speed than humanoids for example.

Why? Probably to make it less efficient of a tactic. As to how... One way of making kiting impossible - I am talking theoretically here, not about 5.0E specifically, I'd have to look up all the rules. Maybe I'll do it later - could be by having abilities that allow the kited to close the gap OR by giving enemies a bit extra movement speed. But given how the combat looked during the gameplay reveal I am not even sure it'll be necessary.

 

[Ontopoly]

Larian bad