Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Yosharian]

Let's see... Astarion and Shadowheart have rather low primary ability scores. 14 Wisdom seems a little odd for a Rogue, but I suppose it's meant to fit his character. It irritates me to see odd ability scores being used. Lae'zel doesn't strike me as a 17 STR character, visually - regardless, it's a decent starting stat for a Fighter (and Githyanki are meant to be physically strong).

Overall these distributions definitely lean towards the 'let's make the stats realistic-looking rather than mechanically effective' side of things. Bleurgh.

Lae'zel: 27 point buy
Gale: 27 point buy, not using variant human which is interesting
Shadowheart: 24 point buy
Astarion: 27 point buy

Seems odd to give Shadowheart only 24 points. Not using variant human is really dumb (if it's available) because it's leagues better than standard human.

Not impressed, overall.

 

[Harthwain]

Not impressed, overall.

My guess is they rolled a bunch of stats and applied them to characters, without trying to mini-max them.

 

[Yosharian]

Not impressed, overall.

My guess is they rolled a bunch of stats and applied them to characters, without trying to mini-max them.

It's pretty obvious they point-buy'd at least 3 of the companions.

If they'd rolled stats they'd have ended up with at least 1 or 2 powerful distributions

 

[Nortar]

Why bother with 13 in all when you could just use cheat engine to get 18 in all and play a pure rogue ?!

That's the difference between min-maxer/powergamer and a munchkin.
The powergamer squeezes what limited resources he has for the optimal performance.
The munchkin just cheats to get max stats without any efforts.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess, but personally I find it more satisfying when my character performs well thanks to the efforts I put into making a powerful build, not just becasue of inflated stats.

 

[Yosharian]

Why bother with 13 in all when you could just use cheat engine to get 18 in all and play a pure rogue ?!

That's the difference between min-maxer/powergamer and a munchkin.
The powergamer squeezes what limited resources he has for the optimal performance.
The munchkin just cheats to get max stats without any efforts.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess, but personally I find it more satisfying when my character performs well thanks to the efforts I put into making a powerful build, not just becasue of inflated stats.

Fascinating post

 

[Dodo1610]

Larian has just changed huge parts of the writing and the gameplay, but you somehow think that they won't touch the compaion stats until release?

 

[AwesomeButton]

Yeah, given the game isn't expected before next year, I guess they are far from content completion and given the performance of companions in various encounters, Larian will probably change lots of stuff.

 

[Thal]

Let's see... Astarion and Shadowheart have rather low primary ability scores. 14 Wisdom seems a little odd for a Rogue, but I suppose it's meant to fit his character. It irritates me to see odd ability scores being used. Lae'zel doesn't strike me as a 17 STR character, visually - regardless, it's a decent starting stat for a Fighter (and Githyanki are meant to be physically strong).

Overall these distributions definitely lean towards the 'let's make the stats realistic-looking rather than mechanically effective' side of things. Bleurgh.

Lae'zel: 27 point buy
Gale: 27 point buy, not using variant human which is interesting
Shadowheart: 24 point buy
Astarion: 27 point buy

Seems odd to give Shadowheart only 24 points. Not using variant human is really dumb (if it's available) because it's leagues better than standard human.

Not impressed, overall.

My guess is that they've been given suboptimal stats in order to balance encounters for non-powergamers. If a suboptimal character can beat the game, so can a suboptimal player. My first BG1 playthrough had a melee ranger charname with 17 STR. I thought it was good enough, since it was only one less than max. Completed the game and had a blast doing it. Aside from Shadowhearts fewer points, this is not a big issue here, since there are going to be difficulty levels and you can adjust their stats anyway. Powergamers will probably even be happy that devs haven't made the best build obvious, so they can figure it out themselves.

 

[thesheeep]

If the companions' stats will suck, mods will fix it.
As in, it won't even be 24h after release (likely before that) until a mod improving companion stats would be there...
That's really not something I'd worry about.

 

[TemplarGR]

That's the difference between min-maxer/powergamer and a munchkin.
The powergamer squeezes what limited resources he has for the optimal performance.
The munchkin just cheats to get max stats without any efforts.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess, but personally I find it more satisfying when my character performs well thanks to the efforts I put into making a powerful build, not just becasue of inflated stats.

It's a single player game, who gives a fuck if he cheats? It saves him hours of his life.

 

[zapotec]

Btw, in the D&D 5th edition and with the point buy method, you cannot assign a value greater than 15 to an attribute.

 

[Elex]

If the companions' stats will suck, mods will fix it.
As in, it won't even be 24h after release (likely before that) until a mod improving companion stats would be there...
That's really not something I'd worry about.

There is no need to mods, the game allow for reassign them (so you can give them a different subclass/multiclass).

17 is the max stat for a +2 str race like githyanki, it can be optimal for certain feat called half feat that give +1 to a stat and some extra stuff.

 

[Nortar]

That's the difference between min-maxer/powergamer and a munchkin.
The powergamer squeezes what limited resources he has for the optimal performance.
The munchkin just cheats to get max stats without any efforts.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess, but personally I find it more satisfying when my character performs well thanks to the efforts I put into making a powerful build, not just becasue of inflated stats.

It's a single player game, who gives a fuck if he cheats? It saves him hours of his life.

Well, I certainly don't, and that's what I've said.
I don't care for cheating, save-scumming and whatever other percieved "sins" people invent to think themselves better than the "sinners".

It's kind of curious that my post was considered an attempt at trolling.
I do sincerely believe that "within letter of the rules"/"by any means possible" is the divising line between min-maxer and munchkin.
But maybe that comes from my tabletop rpg youth, and not as much appilicable to crpg.

 

[Cael]

That's the difference between min-maxer/powergamer and a munchkin.
The powergamer squeezes what limited resources he has for the optimal performance.
The munchkin just cheats to get max stats without any efforts.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess, but personally I find it more satisfying when my character performs well thanks to the efforts I put into making a powerful build, not just becasue of inflated stats.

It's a single player game, who gives a fuck if he cheats? It saves him hours of his life.

Well, I certainly don't, and that's what I've said.
I don't care for cheating, save-scumming and whatever other percieved "sins" people invent to think themselves better than the "sinners".

It's kind of curious that my post was considered an attempt at trolling.
I do sincerely believe that "within letter of the rules"/"by any means possible" is the divising line between min-maxer and munchkin.
But maybe that comes from my tabletop rpg youth, and not as much appilicable to crpg.

Try being the guy who spent all his spell slots casting Explosive Runes for a month or so, and then researched a level 2 version of Dispel Magic (like the one in NWN). BBEG time, chuck an entire backpack full of sheets of paper each with an Explosive Rune on it at the BBEG then cast Lesser Dispel Magic at minimal caster level. Now, read Explosive Runes again, particularly the part about what happens when you fail the dispel check.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

That's the difference between min-maxer/powergamer and a munchkin.
The powergamer squeezes what limited resources he has for the optimal performance.
The munchkin just cheats to get max stats without any efforts.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess, but personally I find it more satisfying when my character performs well thanks to the efforts I put into making a powerful build, not just becasue of inflated stats.

It's a single player game, who gives a fuck if he cheats? It saves him hours of his life.

Well, I certainly don't, and that's what I've said.
I don't care for cheating, save-scumming and whatever other percieved "sins" people invent to think themselves better than the "sinners".

It's kind of curious that my post was considered an attempt at trolling.
I do sincerely believe that "within letter of the rules"/"by any means possible" is the divising line between min-maxer and munchkin.
But maybe that comes from my tabletop rpg youth, and not as much appilicable to crpg.

Try being the guy who spent all his spell slots casting Explosive Runes for a month or so, and then researched a level 2 version of Dispel Magic (like the one in NWN). BBEG time, chuck an entire backpack full of sheets of paper each with an Explosive Rune on it at the BBEG then cast Lesser Dispel Magic at minimal caster level. Now, read Explosive Runes again, particularly the part about what happens when you fail the dispel check.

Big kaboom?

 

[Theldaran]

Rogue with 8 Intelligence *facepalm*

Reminds me of the overly-good-but-dim-witted paladins where Intelligence was a dump stat, usually it ended up with 8 too, because at least you wanted them to talk almost properly. "Will save people in distress, can't do basic math". Like a Gourry Gabriev trope of sorts.

But in a rogue??

 

[Nortar]

Try being the guy who spent all his spell slots casting Explosive Runes for a month or so, and then researched a level 2 version of Dispel Magic (like the one in NWN). BBEG time, chuck an entire backpack full of sheets of paper each with an Explosive Rune on it at the BBEG then cast Lesser Dispel Magic at minimal caster level. Now, read Explosive Runes again, particularly the part about what happens when you fail the dispel check.

Nice trick, it would have been a "clever use of game mechanic" - i.e. powergaming, not munchkinism, in my book- if it was possible.
It's like a more sofisticated version of the old bag-of-rats.
But it does not work, because magic items are not affected by an area dispel.

 

[Cael]

Try being the guy who spent all his spell slots casting Explosive Runes for a month or so, and then researched a level 2 version of Dispel Magic (like the one in NWN). BBEG time, chuck an entire backpack full of sheets of paper each with an Explosive Rune on it at the BBEG then cast Lesser Dispel Magic at minimal caster level. Now, read Explosive Runes again, particularly the part about what happens when you fail the dispel check.

Nice trick, it would have been a "clever use of game mechanic" - i.e. powergaming, not munchkinism, in my book- if it was possible.
It's like a more sofisticated version of the old bag-of-rats.
But it does not work, because magic items are not affected by an area dispel.

"For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells, you make dispel checks as with creatures. Magic items are not affected by an area dispel."
Each piece of paper is targeted by Explosive Runes.

 

[Cael]

That's the difference between min-maxer/powergamer and a munchkin.
The powergamer squeezes what limited resources he has for the optimal performance.
The munchkin just cheats to get max stats without any efforts.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess, but personally I find it more satisfying when my character performs well thanks to the efforts I put into making a powerful build, not just becasue of inflated stats.

It's a single player game, who gives a fuck if he cheats? It saves him hours of his life.

Well, I certainly don't, and that's what I've said.
I don't care for cheating, save-scumming and whatever other percieved "sins" people invent to think themselves better than the "sinners".

It's kind of curious that my post was considered an attempt at trolling.
I do sincerely believe that "within letter of the rules"/"by any means possible" is the divising line between min-maxer and munchkin.
But maybe that comes from my tabletop rpg youth, and not as much appilicable to crpg.

Try being the guy who spent all his spell slots casting Explosive Runes for a month or so, and then researched a level 2 version of Dispel Magic (like the one in NWN). BBEG time, chuck an entire backpack full of sheets of paper each with an Explosive Rune on it at the BBEG then cast Lesser Dispel Magic at minimal caster level. Now, read Explosive Runes again, particularly the part about what happens when you fail the dispel check.

Big kaboom?

With the BBEG caught right in the middle of it. Even if he saves on all of them, 6d6/2 multiplied by a few hundred = deader than dead.

 

[Nortar]

Try being the guy who spent all his spell slots casting Explosive Runes for a month or so, and then researched a level 2 version of Dispel Magic (like the one in NWN). BBEG time, chuck an entire backpack full of sheets of paper each with an Explosive Rune on it at the BBEG then cast Lesser Dispel Magic at minimal caster level. Now, read Explosive Runes again, particularly the part about what happens when you fail the dispel check.

Nice trick, it would have been a "clever use of game mechanic" - i.e. powergaming, not munchkinism, in my book- if it was possible.
It's like a more sofisticated version of the old bag-of-rats.
But it does not work, because magic items are not affected by an area dispel.

"For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells, you make dispel checks as with creatures. Magic items are not affected by an area dispel."
Each piece of paper is targeted by Explosive Runes.

Being a rules lawyer is an essential part of being a powergamer.

1: Note: Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and disable.


2: Magic Traps Dispel magic helps here. <...> This works only with a targeted dispel magic, not the area version.

 

[Cael]

Try being the guy who spent all his spell slots casting Explosive Runes for a month or so, and then researched a level 2 version of Dispel Magic (like the one in NWN). BBEG time, chuck an entire backpack full of sheets of paper each with an Explosive Rune on it at the BBEG then cast Lesser Dispel Magic at minimal caster level. Now, read Explosive Runes again, particularly the part about what happens when you fail the dispel check.

Nice trick, it would have been a "clever use of game mechanic" - i.e. powergaming, not munchkinism, in my book- if it was possible.
It's like a more sofisticated version of the old bag-of-rats.
But it does not work, because magic items are not affected by an area dispel.

"For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells, you make dispel checks as with creatures. Magic items are not affected by an area dispel."
Each piece of paper is targeted by Explosive Runes.

Being a rules lawyer is an essential part of being a powergamer.

1: Note: Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and disable.


2: Magic Traps Dispel magic helps here. <...> This works only with a targeted dispel magic, not the area version.

That is a generic statement. When a spell explicitly says something else will affect it, then it supercedes the generic. This is especially obvious when it comes to things like Feeblemind and the like, which are explicitly immune to Dispel Magic, despite the generic statement in Dispel Magic saying any spell can be so targeted. As a "rules lawyer", you should know this.

But nice try moving the goalposts, since you explicitly said magic items in your original objection, which was comprehensively destroyed as an argument.

 

[Nortar]

Try being the guy who spent all his spell slots casting Explosive Runes for a month or so, and then researched a level 2 version of Dispel Magic (like the one in NWN). BBEG time, chuck an entire backpack full of sheets of paper each with an Explosive Rune on it at the BBEG then cast Lesser Dispel Magic at minimal caster level. Now, read Explosive Runes again, particularly the part about what happens when you fail the dispel check.

Nice trick, it would have been a "clever use of game mechanic" - i.e. powergaming, not munchkinism, in my book- if it was possible.
It's like a more sofisticated version of the old bag-of-rats.
But it does not work, because magic items are not affected by an area dispel.

"For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells, you make dispel checks as with creatures. Magic items are not affected by an area dispel."
Each piece of paper is targeted by Explosive Runes.

Being a rules lawyer is an essential part of being a powergamer.

1: Note: Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and disable.


2: Magic Traps Dispel magic helps here. <...> This works only with a targeted dispel magic, not the area version.

That is a generic statement. When a spell explicitly says something else will affect it, then it supercedes the generic. This is especially obvious when it comes to things like Feeblemind and the like, which are explicitly immune to Dispel Magic, despite the generic statement in Dispel Magic saying any spell can be so targeted. As a "rules lawyer", you should know this.

But nice try moving the goalposts, since you explicitly said magic items in your original objection, which was comprehensively destroyed as an argument.

I read rules as written, not inventing hidden meanings.
Exlosive rune is directly stated to be considered a magic trap.
Magic traps, again stated directly, are not affected by area dispell.

Your Feeblemind, if anything, proves my point - it is explicitly mentioned because it's an exeption to the general rule - it should be affected by dispell, but it is not.
There are no mentioned exceptions for "magic trap - explosive rune".

 

[Cael]

Try being the guy who spent all his spell slots casting Explosive Runes for a month or so, and then researched a level 2 version of Dispel Magic (like the one in NWN). BBEG time, chuck an entire backpack full of sheets of paper each with an Explosive Rune on it at the BBEG then cast Lesser Dispel Magic at minimal caster level. Now, read Explosive Runes again, particularly the part about what happens when you fail the dispel check.

Nice trick, it would have been a "clever use of game mechanic" - i.e. powergaming, not munchkinism, in my book- if it was possible.
It's like a more sofisticated version of the old bag-of-rats.
But it does not work, because magic items are not affected by an area dispel.

"For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells, you make dispel checks as with creatures. Magic items are not affected by an area dispel."
Each piece of paper is targeted by Explosive Runes.

Being a rules lawyer is an essential part of being a powergamer.

1: Note: Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and disable.


2: Magic Traps Dispel magic helps here. <...> This works only with a targeted dispel magic, not the area version.

That is a generic statement. When a spell explicitly says something else will affect it, then it supercedes the generic. This is especially obvious when it comes to things like Feeblemind and the like, which are explicitly immune to Dispel Magic, despite the generic statement in Dispel Magic saying any spell can be so targeted. As a "rules lawyer", you should know this.

But nice try moving the goalposts, since you explicitly said magic items in your original objection, which was comprehensively destroyed as an argument.

I read rules as written, not inventing hidden meanings.
Exlosive rune is directly stated to be considered a magic trap.
Magic traps, again stated directly, are not affected by area dispell.

Your Feeblemind, if anything, proves my point - it is explicitly mentioned because it's an exeption to the general rule - it should be affected by dispell, but it is not.
There are no mentioned exceptions for "magic trap - explosive rune".

There is no hidden meaning. Just you applying something that is the rule of DnD only to cases that forward your agenda. I bet you're one of those who say that Rainbow Servant is 7/10 casting as well.

 

[Nortar]

Just you applying something that is the rule of DnD only to cases that forward your agenda.

Maybe so, but you do the same.

 

[Cael]

Just you applying something that is the rule of DnD only to cases that forward your agenda.

Maybe so, but you do the same.

You keep believing that, dramaqueen.