Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[J_C]

1. Sven is already contradicting himself. In the RPS interview he states that the storyline of Baldur's Gate I and II is ended, while in the article at Venturebeat it's stated that the game "It builds on the material and storylines from Baldur’s Gate (1997) and Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn (2000)".

How is that a contradiction? The story of BG has ended with ToB, BG3's story takes place after that, but there are probably references to the previous events, and they have an influence on the current state of the world.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Don't play dumb, you know that Dragon Age (after Origins) and Mass Effect are not considered party based RPGs.

Yet those games are almost entirely about interacting with your party between missions. When Larian says your party is important, there's a good chance they mean it's important in the BioWare sense, meaning you talk to your companions A LOT, not necessarily that controlling them is important to combat.

When a developer says, "missing based on dice rolls sucks in a video game," they're making an action game. Because missing based on dice rolls is a normal mechanic in turn based or RTwP combat, as everyone at Larian knows. Dice roll based THC only sucks when you have third or first person action combat, like in Morrowind.

And the math is pretty brutal. Larian's been working on this for over two years. They said they had 200 people on it before, now they have 300 people on it. How much does the average game dev cost per year in Belgium, Ireland or North America? Say $50,000? That's $15 million a year with the current size of the production, just for labor costs.

It's really hard for me to conceive of them spending $30 million or more on labor and then limiting the size of their target audience by going with non-action gameplay.

 

[Sailor Woedica]

I hope they show off some of the companions sooon it totally sucks they have to wait for some D&D books to come out first!

 

[Rivmusique]

Dark Souls killer.

 

[J_C]

Don't play dumb, you know that Dragon Age (after Origins) and Mass Effect are not considered party based RPGs.

Yet those games are almost entirely about interacting with your party between missions. When Larian says your party is important, there's a good chance they mean it's important in the BioWare sense, meaning you talk to your companions A LOT, not necessarily that controlling them is important to combat.

When a developer says, "missing based on dice rolls sucks in a video game," they're making an action game. Because missing based on dice rolls is a normal mechanic in turn based or RTwP combat, as everyone at Larian knows. Dice roll based THC only sucks when you have third or first person action combat, like in Morrowind.

And the math is pretty brutal. Larian's been working on this for over two years. They said they had 200 people on it before, now they have 300 people on it. How much does the average game dev cost per year in Belgium, Ireland or North America? Say $50,000? That's $15 million a year with the current size of the production, just for labor costs.

It's really hard for me to conceive of them spending $30 million or more on labor and then limiting the size of their target audience by going with non-action gameplay.

The success of DOS 1 and 2 is enough to finance a 30 million game. A game with DOS2 gameplay, with the name of Baldur's Gate, with D&D license is not a risk, even if it costs 30 million. I might be wrong at the end of course, but I don't see that they HAVE to make a dumbed down action RPG if they want to finance a high production value game.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Because missing based on dice rolls is a normal mechanic in turn based or RTwP combat, as everyone at Larian knows

Normal, but not mandatory, as DOS2 proved (yes the game had THC but it was p much irrelevant).

 

[DalekFlay]

The success of DOS 1 and 2 is enough to finance a 30 million game. A game with DOS2 gameplay, with the name of Baldur's Gate, with D&D license is not a risk, even if it costs 30 million. I might be wrong at the end of course, but I don't see that they HAVE to make a dumbed down action RPG if they want to finance a high production value game.

Why spend a lot more money making something just like DOS for the same audience? Doesn't make sense. It's not just licensing costs, he said the team is three times the size. The costs associated with that mean a higher sales goal, more than just what the name will get them. I'm not saying it's going to be Skyrim or Dragon Age or whatever else, but it's not going to be DOS either. Or if it is they're being super stupid, because that audience doesn't demand such a greater expense.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

The success of DOS 1 and 2 is enough to finance a 30 million game. A game with DOS2 gameplay, with the name of Baldur's Gate, with D&D license is not a risk, even if it costs 30 million. I might be wrong at the end of course, but I don't see that they HAVE to make a dumbed down action RPG if they want to finance a high production value game.

That's not the whole cost, it's just the labor cost if they stop working on it right now. They have to pay rent, pay for computers, pay for software, pay for whatever the hell they need to license within the game. The Witcher 3 cost $46 million to develop and they got a lot of extra bang for their buck by making it in Poland.

Sure, they don't have to make it an action game, but I'm assuming Swen wants to turn a profit.

Normal, but not mandatory, as DOS2 proved (yes the game had THC but it was p much irrelevant).

My point is that we've heard developers say "dice based THC sucks in video games" before and every fucking time it turns out they were making an action RPG.

 

[agris]

Kyl Von Kull The strange thing, to me, are people's visceral reactions when they are made to observe such plain facts. The button brigade of retard, butthurt etc comes out of the wood work, but we're just telling them what is painfully obvious: this is not going to be a game like D:OS or the IE games. It just isn't, and expecting anything else is to reject reality and replace it with something more comforting instead (I guess?).

We know the path Larian is going down, we've seen it before! It goes something like this:

1. Become known for making "good" games catering to a specific audience
2. Try to expand that audience - i.e. make more money - by tweaking your gameplay formula to be less niche
3. Release watered-down versions of your classics for years, reaping critical and financial success while making worse and worse games
4. Your employees forget how to make games of the type that made you famous initially, and your fan base is fully of massive mouth-breathers - literally and figuratively
5. Loathe your own fan base for not letting you pursue your vision
   
6. Finally, collapse under the weight of your own ineptitude as even game journalists must admit that you're just making shit

We saw interplay (under Herve's leadership) do this, we saw bioware do this, we saw westwood do this, we saw lucas arts do this, we saw sierra do this, we saw looking glass do this, we saw sid meier do this, we saw obsidian do this, we saw eidos do this, we see gollop doing this - shit we even saw DnD do this through the editions. This isn't a new phenomenon people!

And for those that bemoan the negativity: this isn't negative, it's just a reflection of reality. There is plenty to be *hopeful* for in terms of good games, but it just requires a bit more effort to find them than a lot of people pushing "butthurt" buttons in these BG3 threads care to exert. There is life beyond AAA/AA+ gaming, and it's glorious! Stop setting your hopes on these studios that are going to disappoint you - they're telling you upfront with their words and actions. You just need to think about it. Think!

 

[FeelTheRads]

but I'm assuming Swen wants to turn a profit.

No, according to J_C they just want to make a game with the money they already have and don't want any other money.

 

[Shrimp]

Have they said anything about how many companions there will be in the game? I believe one of the interviews implied a party size of six, but if the game ends up only having 4-6 NPC companions to choose from (Like in Original Sin 1 and 2) I feel that a lot of the potential for interactions between the different characters will be lost.
Swen attended some conference I don't remember the specific details about at Pax and mentioned that in their next game (which we now know is BG3) they'd be focusing more on 'character relationships' since they were mostly absent in OS2. I'm just concerned that this means they'll reduce the amount of companions to make up for an increased amount of character lines, interactions, dialogue options and other things that will increase the time and resources required to add voice overs to everything.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Normal, but not mandatory, as DOS2 proved (yes the game had THC but it was p much irrelevant).

My point is that we've heard developers say "dice based THC sucks in video games" before and every fucking time it turns out they were making an action RPG.

Yeah, but none of those devs had previously made a THC-less CRPG, had they?

 

[Ulrox]

1. Become known for making "good" games catering to a specific audience
2. Try to expand that audience - i.e. make more money - by tweaking your gameplay formula to be less niche
3. Release watered-down versions of your classics for years, reaping critical and financial success while making worse and worse games
4. Your employees forget how to make games of the type that made you famous initially, and your fan base is fully of massive mouth-breathers - literally and figuratively
5. Loathe your own fan base for not letting you pursue your vision
   
6. Finally, collapse under the weight of your own ineptitude as even game journalists must admit that you're just making shit

Sounds to me like your trauma from the past, is making you incapable of trusting again. At what point does that kind of mindset end up hurting you more than helping you? Those are the kinds of questions I inevitably end up asking myself.

 

[Ziggy]

Can we all save the grand proclamations for when some gameplay is actually shown? And if you must shitpost with barely any information available, maybe try less gloom and more fun. but yeah this is codex yada yada

 

[Shrimp]

1. Become known for making "good" games catering to a specific audience
2. Try to expand that audience - i.e. make more money - by tweaking your gameplay formula to be less niche
3. Release watered-down versions of your classics for years, reaping critical and financial success while making worse and worse games
4. Your employees forget how to make games of the type that made you famous initially, and your fan base is fully of massive mouth-breathers - literally and figuratively
5. Loathe your own fan base for not letting you pursue your vision
   
6. Finally, collapse under the weight of your own ineptitude as even game journalists must admit that you're just making shit

Sounds to me like your trauma from the past, is making you incapable of trusting again. At what point does that kind of mindset end up hurting you more than helping you? Those are the kinds of questions I inevitably end up asking myself.

There is nothing wrong with healthy scepticism but I do agree that we should refrain from passing judgement until we get an actual look at the game.
While Larian's previous games might provide pointers towards the type of game BG3 will be, I do not believe in blindly dismissing it as a clone of Original Sin. Especially not it (supposedly) has been in development from before OS2's launch and by a different group of developers and designers within Larian.

 

[santino27]

I would consider NWN 1 OC "save the world" game. You stop a master lizard race, which previously held world dominion, from returning. You even meet a person from another dimension who's realm was conquered by them.

there are people who actually finished the NWN OC?

Sadly. Worse, I played it co-op with my wife.

 

[The_Mask]

Sadly. Worse, I played it co-op with my wife.

If you're still married after a trial like that, then she's the one - never let her go.

 

[J_C]

Kyl Von Kull The strange thing, to me, are people's visceral reactions when they are made to observe such plain facts. The button brigade of retard, butthurt etc comes out of the wood work, but we're just telling them what is painfully obvious: this is not going to be a game like D:OS or the IE games. It just isn't, and expecting anything else is to reject reality and replace it with something more comforting instead (I guess?).

You can't know for a fact that it won't be like DOS. I'm sorry, but with the current information, you can't. Just because Wizard of the Coast said that in their eyes, it will be a AAA game, doesn't mean that Larian is making Dragon Age Inquisition.

All I'm saying that without ANY information, shitting all over the game and assuming that it will be Dragon Age Inquisition or Mass Effect is retarded. If the first gameplay videos come out, and it turns out that it is indeed a dumbed down action game, you can bash it all to hell, and it will be warranted. And I will say that you guys were right. But if turns out to be a proper cRPG, will these haters eat their words and say, "damn, I was wrong"? No, they will continue to hate on some other shit.

All this negativity from the start poisons any discussions about the game on the Codex.

 

[agris]

All I'm saying that without ANY information

This is exactly my point, you have information. You just don't like what it indicates.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The good news is that there is nothing to risk. At worst, we lose a studio that made Original Sin games, which is a net gain.

The bad news is that there is nothing in Larian's history to suggest they would be good at making open-world action RPGs with TPP or FPP. The suck at writing, have never done action combat, never done open world design from that perspective. So there's a good chance this could be like Skyrim without mods and with lots of cat humor.

 

[Lacrymas]

Sadly. Worse, I played it co-op with my wife.

If you're still married after a trial like that, then she's the one - never let her go.

Can confirm. I played the NWN OC with a friend of mine and we are no longer friends. Coincidence? You decide.

All I'm saying that without ANY information

We have information, you just decide to ignore it.

 

[Quillon]

It's really hard for me to conceive of them spending $30 million or more on labor and then limiting the size of their target audience by going with non-action gameplay.

It could have an optional RT/RTwP mode..maybe but it'll be TB fo'sho. DOS2 assures them that in the very unlikely worst case scenario; they'd at least earn as much as they've spent. They just need to keep doing what they are doing with co-op and shit. And BG3's "game master" mode will be in D&D for all you D&D fans. There'll be custom campaigns for years to come. I'd get hyped if I was a D&D nerd :D

 

[Curratum]

There is literally ONE single thing on which the greatness of Baldur's Gate 3 hinges and that thing is how far down the rabbit hole of cucked-up SJW bullshittery have M. Mearls and Co gone.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Kyl Von Kull The strange thing, to me, are people's visceral reactions when they are made to observe such plain facts. The button brigade of retard, butthurt etc comes out of the wood work, but we're just telling them what is painfully obvious: this is not going to be a game like D:OS or the IE games. It just isn't, and expecting anything else is to reject reality and replace it with something more comforting instead (I guess?).

You can't know for a fact that it won't be like DOS. I'm sorry, but with the current information, you can't. Just because Wizard of the Coast said that in their eyes, it will be a AAA game, doesn't mean that Larian is making Dragon Age Inquisition.

All I'm saying that without ANY information, shitting all over the game and assuming that it will be Dragon Age Inquisition or Mass Effect is retarded. If the first gameplay videos come out, and it turns out that it is indeed a dumbed down action game, you can bash it all to hell, and it will be warranted. And I will say that you guys were right. But if turns out to be a proper cRPG, will these haters eat their words and say, "damn, I was wrong"? No, they will continue to hate on some other shit.

All this negativity from the start poisons any discussions about the game on the Codex.

But larian makes bad crpgs. Even if it's isometric, which it isn't, Larian still has:

• Shit worldbuilding
• Shit writing
• Forced memes
• Garbage character design
• Bad gameplay

Being a top down crpg isn't going to brush over the fact that every quest is about a talking slug who's depressed because the toad prince rickrolled him and to save the slug you need to acquire a walking purple mushroom from the meat-ogre pepe queen

 

[Ulrox]

All I'm saying that without ANY information

This is exactly my point, you have information. You just don't like what it indicates.

Larian has existed since 1996, and they have been a good developer, in my eyes atleast, since that time. What you were saying, is that they magically would turn into basically bioware because they're making baldur's gate 3. Which is pretty illogical, given the information.