Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Many people commenting on BG3 and the Forgotten Realms generally seem to be under the misapprehension that the Forgotten Realms was ever a serious attempt at creating a fantasy version of pseudo-medieval Europe, as opposed to a RenFair LARPfest version of contemporary America/Canada, in which there is a vast "Heartland" area that is an American/Canadian monoculture with American/Canadian norms

That being said, I've encountered D&D books from 2nd edition times which are not only not low-effort writing, but were genuinely interesting to read as fantasy fiction. PHBR10 - "the complete book of humanoids". "The North: Guide to The Savage Frontier". FR14, "The Great Glacier". I've read them all from torrents, but they struck me with how grounded they were.

How do you explain this, what was the context that they were written in? Was it TSR adding some healthy stuff to Greenwood's setting?

Ed Greenwood only wrote a small portion of the TSR Forgotten Realms products. FR5 The Savage Frontier, for example, was written by the renowned Paul Jaquays, while FR14 The Great Glacier was written by Rick Swan, and PHBR10 The Complete Book of Humanoids isn't even a Forgotten Realms product (being part of the lengthy Player's Handbook rules supplement series denoted by PHBR). As I mentioned, TSR did make some attempt, not only to sanitize the setting, but to revise and expand it. The impression that I've gained from people who have followed the Forgotten Realms setting since the demise of TSR is that it has reverted to a focus on the smaller geography established by Ed Greenwood himself and moved closer to his conception of it as a RenFaire LARPing version of contemporary America/Canada.

I didn't mean to imply that one can't find value in some of the Forgotten Realms products published by TSR, which were many and varied. And of course a number of worthwhile CRPGs were set in the Forgotten Realms, although at a time when narrative and dialogue were quite sparse.

 

[AwesomeButton]

No worries, I already know.

What I know is you likely haven't played 5 RPGs in your life, or so it looks from your sharp-eye criticism. This is reads as written by someone who started playing RPGs with Assasin's Creed: Origins and just discovers things which everyone knows as tropes of videogame RPGs

Let's see it. The most balancedest review of BG3 to have been posted in this thread:

Combat: 4/5 (enjoyable and interesting mechanics but a point off from being too easy, even on tactician).

Use of non-combat skills: 4/5 (good access to a variety of options but there are instances where different choices are meaningless and mostly filler shit like speak with the dead)

Environment and exploration: 4/5 (top notch but Baldur's Gate city was a huge letdown, just lower region why would you do opt for this in your magnum opus)

Companions: 3/5 (mixed bag, you can tell that the intended core party were Laezel, Astarion, Gale and SH. Wyll is boring and Karlach is redditor-tier. Halsin and old BG inserts are irrelevant as they appear way too late in the game. Gale's gay shit is undeniably too much when he could have been designed as a bro).

Writing: 2/5 (really bad: capeshit-level fantasy (

Spoiler

e.g. when the three main villains activate their powers at the end of act 2 like they were re-enacting a he-man scene was probably one of the most cringe shit i have witnessed in an RPG in a long time

), narratively inconsistent and illogical at times (

Spoiler

like why the fuck is the Githyanki queen sending randos to the astral plane to kill the one thing that can challenge her reign instead of the goddamn elite squad standing right there?

and frankly just a lot of meaningless choices that doesn't carry over to end-game despite the game being advertised as the complete opposite

Spoiler

for example, it doesn't matter AT ALL that your character doesn't use any tadpole powers or consume minor tadpoles. it has ZERO effect on the entire game, as long as you don't take the supreme tadpole the story doesn't change

. Also a severe lack of party banter both in quantity and quality, that you would expect of a game with this scope.

Overall: 3.5/5 surprisingly enjoyable combat and exploration carries this game. Could have been much better in the writing/companion department but I didn't quit half-way through out of bloated boredom like shitfinder.

Translation:
Combat: "I'm unpleasantly surprised that I can break the combat difficulty curve in an RPG."
Use of non-combat skills: "There are skillchecks in and out of dialogue, but not all of them lead to unique branches."
Environment and exploration: "top notch, but not in every area, also some part of the city I thought would be in, actually wasn't."
Companions (BTW since when is this a category when evaluating an RPG?!): "I wasn't entertained."
Writing: "Didn't read much, but it was bad. Reminded me of bad capeshit, not that I watch capeshit, no sir."

That's your balanced review? All that this means is you don't know how to tell a good RPG from a bad one. You don't see all the things this game is doing right, in order to simulate PnP more accurately than any other RPG yet released, for as long as we've had RPGs. From your text, you seem to have missed what the game is about. What are you even doing here? It won't be any loss if you logged off and never logged on again.

You don't know what RPGs are about, just don't have the context to evaluate them. You've written it up there in your own hand.

 

[Zeltak]

Lmao got so butthurt you went back and then replied with this essay.

 

[Shaki]

I actually sighted in relief when I learned that Halsin, another potential creep, was kidnapped by Orin and it might be a timed quest. She really helped me dodging a bullet here.

"No, evil doppelganger Bhaal wannabe, please don't kidnap Halsin! Take any of my other companions instead, but we couldn't possibly continue without the elf druid! Truly!"

Playing at a very slow pace now.
I find it shocking that Jaheira and Minsc seem very well-written so far.

With the eyes of my imagination I can picture a Larian writer sweating, almost crying, fighting off the need to smuggle some backstory about Jaheira fighting in Blood War. Or shagging a god, or whatever.

Not a coincidence that Jaheira is the third-best-written companion in Baldur's Gate 3, Minsc is the second-best, and Boo is the best. Larian expended a large amount of time and effort on writing, voicing, and animating eight companions, but this was undermined by poor character concepts (and the dialogue writing itself generally leaves something to be desired).

I don't know if they're written well, but they really do seem like a few generations older than the other companions. Even how grounded their backgrounds are compared to the new companions.

• Jaheira: nature-lover druid with a sad backstory and nostalgia for adventuring.
• Misnc: Ranger with mental issues that is really more of a barbarian. Has a hamster friend.

Nu-companions

• Lae'zel: Zoomer bitch queen chosen one of all githyanki, WoTC has to rewrite gith canon after I'm done, yaaaaaaass
• Gale: 80's romance novel hero that fucks goddesses and has magic nuke and will blow up the world, I'm so cool
• Shadowtits: I'm super special, Shar is my BFF, doesn't my name say how special I am? 30% of the story is written specifically for me, haha

And I don't even want to know what's up with the other ones. If the writers wanted to represent what it is like dealing with cringe-plebs on a 5e tabletop, they nailed it.

My god this is the best 1:1 adaptation of 5e ever made. I take back everything I ever said about this game.

You know, I just realized generations of BG2 fans mocked infamous Saerileth mod, but the author was just fucking ahead of his time. Today all the companions are uber special snowflake self inserts, that at times feel more like main characters than the player's character, and people absolutely love it.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

My headcannon is that is real Swen because it makes me chuckle every time I think about it.

*HeadCANON, unless you are actually referring to artillery.
And I said it first months ago: I like to think he's the real Swen pretending to be a fake shit-poster, just to not let people know he's still still browsing the Codex.

 

[Lyric Suite]

For a bit i was actually torn between finishing it as is or just quit and come back in a few years when they released the ultimate edition and there's some mods that clean up all the stupid garbage, but i think i'm just gonna get it done and then not touch the game until it's been fixed every which way.

I'm also starting to think i should stop trying to read the books. It seems most of the retared writing is found there:

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https://i.redd.it/wsofw8kt4pr51.png

The dialog is serviceable and the voice acting is consistenly good for what this is but reading the books just puts you face to face with the retardation of the writers of this game. Most of them don't even do a particularly good job at explaining the lore. They are mostly pointless fluff that do very little to explain the world to the player and they are causing me more grief than they are worth.

 

[Alienman]

Act 2 very much feels like a game within the game BG3. The link between the region's problems with the main plot, ergo with the Adventuring Party's problem, is very loosely established. It's like everyone at one point or another says "Oh you know what, the answer to my personal issue just happens to lie at Moonrise Towers. "Watta coincidence, innit?"

Funny when you put it like that since the area is cursed. So you would think people would avoid it, but as it is everyone is flocking there for whatever reason.

Lastly, I'm noting the tendency of playing with a custom character essentially spoiling the stories of party members. If I've done someone's personal quest, wouldn't I know everything about this character if I later play as him/her? Was it a mistake making NPC playable as main character?

I think it's a big mistake, maybe not for that reason exactly. The heavy focus on the companions and making them playable has made the custom char a second-rate character.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Lmao got so butthurt you went back and then replied with this essay.

I just wanted to see your balanced review for myself, and it's just as worthless as your own presence. Don't flatter yourself, I've already seen everything you might come up with.

 

[Lagole Gon]

I had to fight Viconia for this danger hair skank...
I think I regret not choosing Fr'og.

 

[Fedora Master]

Why do these Belgian niggers find it so hard to make a useable UI?
Why the fuck do I need to go to camp, dismiss a companion and invite another one just to access their inventory?
God fucking damn.

Good luck if you forgot which guy you gave an item to, too.

 

[Zeltak]

Lmao got so butthurt you went back and then replied with this essay.

I’m butthurt but let me add a smiley to my post to show you I don’t care.

 

[Fedora Master]

If you don't like trannies in BG3, it's probably worth saying it, just so other smaller devs know that there is still a niche interested in non-trannyfied games.

Since there are no trannies, only a crossdresser in the circus in act 3, they just think you're crazy and dismiss your entire feedback

There are trannies, and you again talk about the whole game, despite still being in act 1 like you admitted yesterday.

Just because I'm still in act 1 doesn't mean I can't read up about other acts. So, what trannies are there?

If you posted less and played more, maybe your posts might achieve some relevance.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Funny when you put it like that since the area is cursed. So you would think people would avoid it, but as it is everyone is flocking there for whatever reason.

There is some really lame justification on the part of the Tieflings' "scout" or whatever for that. She delivers it in the inn.

I think it's a big mistake, maybe not for that reason exactly. The heavy focus on the companions and making them playable has made the custom char a second-rate character.

Yes, there is a feeling that you are support cast to your companions, but that's certainly due to the companions' writing, not due to what options the PC is given. Not feeling like a chosen one is good, but then making all your main companions a variation of the chosen one (and it's either a god or a devil pact, so maximum stakes) is too much.

 

[AwesomeButton]

My headcannon is that is real Swen because it makes me chuckle every time I think about it.

*HeadCANON, unless you are actually referring to artillery.
And I said it first months ago: I like to think he's the real Swen pretending to be a fake shit-poster, just to not let people know he's still still browsing the Codex.

Can I sugest, a skul gun for my head.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Shadowheart's quest ending hits hard

Oh yeah, I used lethal damage and got the dialogue. In which I killed her, r00fles!

But I meant Shadowheart

Spoiler

getting her memories back, killing her parents as Shar commanded, then having memories wiped again

The ending of Shadowheart's questline is quite heartwarming, if you took the good path by freeing the Nightsong back in Act II, in which case you have the opportunity to

Spoiler

save her parents by passing a persuasion check, at the cost of Shadowheart continuing to bear Shar's curse.

I had to fight Viconia for this danger hair skank...
I think I regret not choosing Fr'og.

Mods have already fixed Shadowheart's hair.

 

[0wca]

My group has now explored all of the underdark and finally returned to the surface. I have the sneaking suspicion that we've done things out of order. Immediately upon returning to the main map we killed the hag in one turn, then went to the goblin camp, made everyone hostile and faffed about for a while using goblins as improvised weapons against other goblins and stuff like that, because they couldn't do shit to us and we had to entertain ourselves somehow. Oops.

There's no such thing as 'do things out of order' in a proper RPG.

That's a very nice sentiment but it doesn't apply to any CRPG ever made.

Fallout NV,
Fallout 2,
Fallout 1,
Gothic 1,
Gothic 2,
etc.

I've played these games numerous times and always did the quests in a different order each time. Never once did I get screwed by the order of the quests completed.

 

[Rhobar121]

Story-wise, it makes sense.

Spoiler

This is the main headquarters that contains the source of tadpoles that they use to infect prisoners.
Where else would they like to bring all the captives?

I figured as much, but the rationalization is coming after the fact in this case. It's like they first tied all the quests to the location, then came up with the reason for it.
I mean, what, it couldn't have been possible for some of the missing persons to have been abducted by a completely unrelated party? Sure it could have.
The stakes felt raised too abruptly for my taste at least. "This is the big bad, responsible for all the bad in this land, and by the way for your problem as well, Adenvturer. So while you're solving your main quest, would you be so kind as to also help this laundry list of minor characters. It would be so convenient. They should be somewhere in his dungeons."

And one more gripe I have with companion NPCs, which I didn't mention earlier.

It gets a bit claustrophobic at camp with so many great egos per square foot/meter. But not just the egos, the personal story tropes of Laezel and Shadowheart currently seem to practically mirror each other. I really hope there is variance according to player choice for them, but for the moment, they are dangerously similar.

Overall, I remember Tim Cain once saying that Arcanum was the game they wanted to put everything in that they could think of, and for now it seems like BG3 is this game for Swen.
Talk about the curse of infinte resources. He got his hands on too much money, bless his heart

EDIT:

I would have preferred the curse to be translated in gameplay terms via some sort of time limit, limit on rests before consequences kick in. A bit Owlcat-style, would have been better. I don't think the implementation of a "spooky radiation" mechanic contributes all that much to the RP experience, and to the feeling of faithfully simulated PnP game.

Now I don't really know what you're talking about.

shadowcurse

It's been sitting there for 100 years, so if it waits a few more weeks nothing will happen.

 

[Rhobar121]

For a bit i was actually torn between finishing it as is or just quit and come back in a few years when they released the ultimate edition and there's some mods that clean up all the stupid garbage, but i think i'm just gonna get it done and then not touch the game until it's been fixed every which way.

I'm also starting to think i should stop trying to read the books. It seems most of the retared writing is found there:

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https://i.redd.it/wsofw8kt4pr51.png

The dialog is serviceable and the voice acting is consistenly good for what this is but reading the books just puts you face to face with the retardation of the writers of this game. Most of them don't even do a particularly good job at explaining the lore. They are mostly pointless fluff that do very little to explain the world to the player and they are causing me more grief than they are worth.

I doubt this will surprise you, but most of this is official dnd lore. Larian didn't make it up.

 

[MerchantKing]

Some fixes, I've

I actually sighted in relief when I learned that Halsin, another potential creep, was kidnapped by Orin and it might be a timed quest. She really helped me dodging a bullet here.

"No, evil doppelganger Bhaal wannabe, please don't kidnap Halsin! Take any of my other companions instead, but we couldn't possibly continue without the elf druid! Truly!"

Playing at a very slow pace now.
I find it shocking that Jaheira and Minsc seem very well-written so far.

With the eyes of my imagination I can picture a Larian writer sweating, almost crying, fighting off the need to smuggle some backstory about Jaheira fighting in Blood War. Or shagging a god, or whatever.

Not a coincidence that Jaheira is the third-best-written companion in Baldur's Gate 3, Minsc is the second-best, and Boo is the best. Larian expended a large amount of time and effort on writing, voicing, and animating eight companions, but this was undermined by poor character concepts (and the dialogue writing itself generally leaves something to be desired).

I don't know if they're written well, but they really do seem like a few generations older than the other companions. Even how grounded their backgrounds are compared to the new companions.

• Jaheira: nature-lover druid with a sad backstory and nostalgia for adventuring.
• Misnc: Ranger with mental issues that is really more of a barbarian. Has a hamster friend.

Nu-companions

• Lae'zel: Zoomer bitch queen chosen one of all githyanki, WoTC has to rewrite gith canon after I'm done, yaaaaaaass
• Gale: 80's romance novel hero that fucks goddesses and has magic nuke and will blow up the world, I'm so cool
• Shadowtits: I'm super special, Shar is my BFF, doesn't my name say how special I am? 30% of the story is written specifically for me, haha

And I don't even want to know what's up with the other ones. If the writers wanted to represent what it is like dealing with cringe-plebs on a 5e tabletop, they nailed it.

My god this is the best 1:1 adaptation of 5e ever made. I take back everything I ever said about this game.

I don't know much of the 5e lore, but what's with all those Shart cultists changing their names to emo teenage girl myspace usernames? But then again, there was literally a character in BG1 named Shart-eel by her father so its not surprising there are retarded names like that in the setting.

 

[Fedora Master]

I don't know much of the 5e lore

There is none. You can be whatever, maaaan, just express urself and have fun.

 

[Rhobar121]

I don't know much of the 5e lore

There is none. You can be whatever, maaaan, just express urself and have fun.

Actually, it exists just because it's stupid since 3e doesn't change the fact that it exists.

 

[Fedora Master]

I don't know much of the 5e lore

There is none. You can be whatever, maaaan, just express urself and have fun.

Actually, it exists just because it's stupid since 3e doesn't change the fact that it exists.

I already posted Tranny Xan Lore, I know.

 

[Rhobar121]

I don't know much of the 5e lore

There is none. You can be whatever, maaaan, just express urself and have fun.

Actually, it exists just because it's stupid since 3e doesn't change the fact that it exists.

I already posted Tranny Xan Lore, I know.

Sometimes some things are better not to know.
The funny thing is that it's hard to tell what Larian came up with and what is official DnD lore.
Even Divinity wasn't that abnormal. I don't think there has ever been a studio that would fit so well with modern dnd.

 

[Fedora Master]

Where the fuck is Zevlor when he's not in his cuckshed? I need to finish the Enclave quest line and he's disappeared.

 

[Rhobar121]

Where the fuck is Zevlor when he's not in his cuckshed? I need to finish the Enclave quest line and he's disappeared.

There's a good chance you killed him unintentionally, if not, he should be at the gate to the grove (see above)