Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

[AwesomeButton]

Originally, the guardian was a dream companion who would try to seduce the player. And it was actually the mind flayer parasite, trying to lull the player into surrender. So, it was always going to be rigmarole. But originally, it would have at least not been laughable rigmarole.

The Emperor idea is much better than the simple "guardian is the tadpole" rug pull, you just need to think about it from the perspective of a subsequent playthrough.

The whole story of the game suffers a lot from not lending itself to subsequent playthroughs, there are too many zoomer "wow" moments that, once spoiled, will only serve to annoy players. Not to mention the slog that is Act 2, even in the first playthrough imo. By comparison BG2 had a better story from that perspective.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Swen straight up said he thinks people don't get enough new things to play with on levelup, and levelups aren't frequent enough in late game, and you might get bored of your character at some point due to not getting new tools. That's what the illithid talent tree is there for, from a game design stance.
Narratively, it doesn't make much sense, especially since its not directly tied to irreversible progression towards ceremorphosis, and I can't say I like it either, but to be surprised by it is weird. Everyone knew what this is for.

Swen is an ass, because I'm an unstoppable juggernaut of death righteous justice without ever using a tadpole from a jar. His "extra tools" are not needed unless the player has an IRL brain disability.

 

[whydoibother]

Originally, the guardian was a dream companion who would try to seduce the player. And it was actually the mind flayer parasite, trying to lull the player into surrender. So, it was always going to be rigmarole. But originally, it would have at least not been laughable rigmarole.

The Emperor idea is much better than the simple "guardian is the tadpole" rug pull, you just need to think about it from the perspective of a subsequent playthrough.

The whole story of the game suffers a lot from not lending itself to subsequent playthroughs, there are too many zoomer "wow" moments that, once spoiled, will only serve to annoy players. By comparison BG2 had a better story from that perspective.

Would it really be a WOW! moment for people who know Forgotten Realms that Daisy is the tadpole? You just got infected by a mind parasite, and you suddenly have mind visions of someone telling you to sit down, relax, chill, you feel tired, sleepy, come down by the river with me, relax, just sleep, ooooops you transformed lol.
This isn't and shouldn't be a surprise to any players familiar with D&D. And I don't think it was changed for the benefit of such players, I think it was changed exactly because it was a surprise to the players that don't know what an illithid is, and got caught, and bricked their save game by resting too much, too early.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Would it really be a WOW! moment for people who know Forgotten Realms that Daisy is the tadpole? You just got infected by a mind parasite, and you suddenly have mind visions of someone telling you to sit down, relax, chill, you feel tired, sleepy, come down by the river with me, relax, just sleep, ooooops you transformed lol.
This isn't and shouldn't be a surprise to any players familiar with D&D. And I don't think it was changed for the benefit of such players, I think it was changed exactly because it was a surprise to the players that don't know what an illithid is, and got caught, and bricked their save game by resting too much, too early.

If it's not a surprise even on the first run, why go with this idea in the first place?

Don't forget all the other spoil-able moments, like the Nightsong, all of the companions' personal quests, etc.

 

[Grauken]

The whole tadpole is trying to corrupt you thing is a great idea for a linear and passive narrative like a novel where you just follow a characters story but a terrible idea for a game where you shape a character's story. Nobody would have gone for it and it would have been just a novelty game over without any narrative weight as most people would have just avoided it

 

[whydoibother]

Nobody would have gone for it

I feel this way about the Emperor, whom I immediately assumed was just a rival trying to control the brain himself, for his own grand design.
Not what ended up happening, but that's what my gut reaction was.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Originally, the guardian was a dream companion who would try to seduce the player. And it was actually the mind flayer parasite, trying to lull the player into surrender. So, it was always going to be rigmarole. But originally, it would have at least not been laughable rigmarole.

The Emperor idea is much better than the simple "guardian is the tadpole" rug pull, you just need to think about it from the perspective of a subsequent playthrough.

The whole story of the game suffers a lot from not lending itself to subsequent playthroughs, there are too many zoomer "wow" moments that, once spoiled, will only serve to annoy players. By comparison BG2 had a better story from that perspective.

Would it really be a WOW! moment for people who know Forgotten Realms that Daisy is the tadpole? You just got infected by a mind parasite, and you suddenly have mind visions of someone telling you to sit down, relax, chill, you feel tired, sleepy, come down by the river with me, relax, just sleep, ooooops you transformed lol.
This isn't and shouldn't be a surprise to any players familiar with D&D. And I don't think it was changed for the benefit of such players, I think it was changed exactly because it was a surprise to the players that don't know what an illithid is, and got caught, and bricked their save game by resting too much, too early.

PUT MORE WORMS INTO YOUR BRAIN TO GET COOL NEW POWERS! NEVER PAY A PRICE FOR IT!!!
Larian picked illithids as the main theme of the game and then did everything to twist it and walk around it.
It’s truly bizarre. I’ve never seen anything like this.

Honestly, help me out here. Can anyone think of a story where writers were fighting against the theme they chose for it?

 

[Grauken]

PUT MORE WORMS INTO YOUR BRAIN TO GET COOL NEW POWERS! NEVER PAY A PRICE FOR IT!!!

Getting a tentacle face is a pretty steep price, even for codex incels

 

[whydoibother]

Larian picked illithids as the main theme of the game and then did everything to twist it and walk around it.
It’s truly bizarre. I’ve never seen anything like this.

They picked illithids to be the main theme for the game.
They build the game around it, as well as early promotional materials.
They got feedback that testers don't enjoy this and are put off by it.
They changed the game, while keeping the illithid theme, since it was already used for marketing.

Not very hard to grasp.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Get a tentacle face is a pretty steep price

Which, as far as I can tell, you don't have to pay, regardless of how many grubs you shove into your brain?

 

[whydoibother]

Get a tentacle face is a pretty steep price

Which, as far as I can tell, you don't have to pay, regardless of how many grubs you shove into your brain?

The first batch of brian worm powers is free.
For the second batch, you need to pay a cosmetic price: some thick black veins on your face.
For the final powers, you need to pay a big cosmetic price: you turn into an illithid entirely. "Not that there's anything wrong with being illithid, of course" - my wife Shadowheart

 

[Swen]

It was a mistake to listen to "play testers"

 

[Lagole Gon]

The whole tadpole is trying to corrupt you thing is a great idea for a linear and passive narrative like a novel where you just follow a characters story but a terrible idea for a game where you shape a character's story. Nobody would have gone for it and it would have been just a novelty game over without any narrative weight as most people would have just avoided it

Man.
I wish Swen was as smart as you and thought about it before the team wrote, animated and implemented big chunks of it. And then they had to replace it with a shitty improvised pocket squid.

I actually agree that this idea doesn't quite work in this type of game. Lots of effort for an obvious trap. But at least it makes sense thematically.
They never should have bothered with a tadpole story, making it work is just too much hassle.
Just make a Durge story instead. Dead three. Bhaal powers. Keep it simple.

 

[whydoibother]

It was a mistake to listen to "play testers"

Was it? The product sold well. The company's future is secured, the salaries and bonuses for employees is granted.
The company Larian moved the product. The designer Swen might have compromised, but the CEO Swen did his duty.

 

[Lagole Gon]

PUT MORE WORMS INTO YOUR BRAIN TO GET COOL NEW POWERS! NEVER PAY A PRICE FOR IT!!!

Get a tentacle face is a pretty steep price, even for codex incels

First of all, leave this thread and stop spoiling the story for yourself.
We want you to witness the alien horror (of bad writing, not illithids) the same way we did. Did you leave the character creation yet?

Secondly, spoiler alert, it's hardly a big price to pay if all your party members are fine with it, your lover still wants to fuck you and you get a chance to roleplay it like it's not a big deal.

 

[Grauken]

They never should have bothered with a tadpole story, making it work is just too much hassle.
Just make a Durge story instead. Dead three. Bhaal powers. Keep it simple.

I agree actually, by this point its clear that Baldur's Gate 3 main story is a merger of two different stories mashed together with some weird outcomes like the tadpoole not becoming a horror but a superpower narrative and the dead three seemingly irrelevant or rather ineffective in their own story. Almost like they developed one of those narratives first and then WotC told them they had to include the other to keep the Baldur's Gate name.

 

[Lagole Gon]

They never should have bothered with a tadpole story, making it work is just too much hassle.
Just make a Durge story instead. Dead three. Bhaal powers. Keep it simple.

I agree actually, by this point its clear that Baldur's Gate 3 main story is a merger of two different stories mashed together with some weird outcomes like the tadpoole not becoming a horror but a superpower narrative and the dead three seemingly irrelevant or rather ineffective in their own story. Almost like they developed one of those narratives first and then WotC told them they had to include the other to keep the Baldur's Gate name.

Dunno. If there was some WotC interefernce it must have been all the Avernus stuff sprinkled all over it. They really are promoting this PnP module a lot.

 

[volklore]

Tadpole story just gives you a good hook into the first act, the ''find a cure'' thing fundamentally works until you finish the goblin camp and the gith creche and then entire thing becomes moot because at that point you know that the guardian in the prism is preventing you to be MC'd by the absolute and the magical alterations to the tadpole make it so you won't turn. At this point there is no reason for you not to swallow every tadpole you find because you turning or not has nothing to do with the tadpoles themselves.
I think the plot works amazing in the first act, I was actually hooked. It's end of act 2 that everything starts getting resolved and starts not making much sense.
Definitely the alteration of the main theme is due to EA feedback that it ''didn't feel like BG'' or it was too grimdark or wtv. I saw lots of comments on youtube/reddit that a lot of people rerolled Tav after they got the first durge killing scene.

 

[AwesomeButton]

The whole tadpole is trying to corrupt you thing is a great idea for a linear and passive narrative like a novel where you just follow a characters story but a terrible idea for a game where you shape a character's story. Nobody would have gone for it and it would have been just a novelty game over without any narrative weight as most people would have just avoided it

Nobody would have gone for it

I feel this way about the Emperor, whom I immediately assumed was just a rival trying to control the brain himself, for his own grand design.
Not what ended up happening, but that's what my gut reaction was.

What RPG players dislike is when the illusion of choice breaks apart, and the feeling that whatever they choose, they are playing pawns in the designer's choice of story, that's not what an RPG should feel like obviously.

Normies, they gobble up any story, their interactivity is genitals and hairstyle choice, and which testicle to be bigger than the other.

 

[jf8350143]

They mentioned there will be consequences for using the tadpole power, and it is hinted in the EA version(in EA if you don't use the power you won't get any dream visiter scene) but in the release game it doesn't matter. You put as much tadpoles in your head as you want, as long as you don't choose the option right before the ending, you will never turn into a mind flayer.

If you don't use any tadpoles the game simply doesn't care, it still treats you like you have using them already.

 

[whydoibother]

What RPG players dislike is when the illusion of choice breaks apart, and the feeling that whatever they choose, they are playing pawns in the designer's choice of story, that's not what an RPG should feel like obviously.

BG3 has more of than than the usual RPG. Compare it to Solasta, another recent RPG using the same ruleset, and its much, much more reactive.
So you can attack BG3 on this front only by comparing it to the platonic ideal, because in comparison to its peers its actually very good.

 

[Grauken]

They really are promoting this PnP module a lot.

Are they? I only found out about it due to this thread, didn't even know there was a prologue to BG3

 

[Swen]

It was a mistake to listen to "play testers"

Was it? The product sold well. The company's future is secured, the salaries and bonuses for employees is granted.
The company Larian moved the product. The designer Swen might have compromised, but the CEO Swen did his duty.

True, my big yacht is secured. Now I won't be ashamed anymore when I dock in Monaco.

 

[volklore]

Raphael's story line must have gone through some serious change as well.

In act 1 he offers you a cure, but in act 3 he just gives you a hammer, which itself is completely useless. Unless you are playing as a gith, otherwise there is literally no reason for you to take the deal.

If that's the best effort from a high level devil hell would be wiped out by the demons years ago.

Spoiler

There is more reasons to take the deal, if you have lae'zel in your party for example. At that point you basically know that Orpheus is responsible for whatever is preventing you to be MC'd by the brain, and the emperor is simply there preventing his gith friends from freeing him. Emperor tells you he'll murder you if you free him but there is a lot of reasons to mistrust him at this point. He's just as dependant on orpheus' power at this point because it is hinted that he is also allowed to maintain his autonomy due to Orpheus. Being the one to free him and maybe gain his cooperation sounds more appealing to me than letting Mc'squidface command me around. Later on there is a scene with the emperor where he threatens to MC you if you don't behave (and reveals that his whole ''relationship'' with stelmane was just her being enthralled).

But I agree that it comes out of nowhere. What happens if you ''take his deal'' in act 1 actually?

 

[Lagole Gon]

It was a mistake to listen to "play testers"

Was it? The product sold well. The company's future is secured, the salaries and bonuses for employees is granted.
The company Larian moved the product. The designer Swen might have compromised, but the CEO Swen did his duty.

True, my big yacht is secured. Now I won't be ashamed anymore when I dock in Monaco.

Dock a yacht, right?
...
Right?