Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

[jf8350143]

Raphael's story line must have gone through some serious change as well.

In act 1 he offers you a cure, but in act 3 he just gives you a hammer, which itself is completely useless. Unless you are playing as a gith, otherwise there is literally no reason for you to take the deal.

If that's the best effort from a high level devil hell would be wiped out by the demons years ago.

Spoiler

There is more reasons to take the deal, if you have lae'zel in your party for example. At that point you basically know that Orpheus is responsible for whatever is preventing you to be MC'd by the brain, and the emperor is simply there preventing his gith friends from freeing him. Emperor tells you he'll murder you if you free him but there is a lot of reasons to mistrust him at this point. He's just as dependant on orpheus' power at this point because it is hinted that he is also allowed to maintain his autonomy due to Orpheus. Being the one to free him and maybe gain his cooperation sounds more appealing to me than letting Mc'squidface command me around. Later on there is a scene with the emperor where he threatens to MC you if you don't behave (and reveals that his whole ''relationship'' with stelmane was just her being enthralled).

But I agree that it comes out of nowhere. What happens if you ''take his deal'' in act 1 actually?

You can't. He will tell you to try other options until you running out of ideas, and only then he will offer you the deal.

Which makes even less sense considering his deal is giving you a hammer. Again there is nothing we can do with the hammer, we can't even get into the artifact unless emperor allows us, let alone using the hammer. It's like giving someone who is starving a set of kitchware so when you have food you can cook them.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Raphael's story line must have gone through some serious change as well.

In act 1 he offers you a cure, but in act 3 he just gives you a hammer, which itself is completely useless. Unless you are playing as a gith, otherwise there is literally no reason for you to take the deal.

If that's the best effort from a high level devil hell would be wiped out by the demons years ago.

Spoiler

There is more reasons to take the deal, if you have lae'zel in your party for example. At that point you basically know that Orpheus is responsible for whatever is preventing you to be MC'd by the brain, and the emperor is simply there preventing his gith friends from freeing him. Emperor tells you he'll murder you if you free him but there is a lot of reasons to mistrust him at this point. He's just as dependant on orpheus' power at this point because it is hinted that he is also allowed to maintain his autonomy due to Orpheus. Being the one to free him and maybe gain his cooperation sounds more appealing to me than letting Mc'squidface command me around. Later on there is a scene with the emperor where he threatens to MC you if you don't behave (and reveals that his whole ''relationship'' with stelmane was just her being enthralled).

But I agree that it comes out of nowhere. What happens if you ''take his deal'' in act 1 actually?

You can't take any deal in act 1.
He will just laugh at you and say something like "I want you to be more desperate" or whatever.
I don't know what did you expect here. Any "deal with the devil" stuff, like everything related to the tadpole being a threat, has been removed in the rewrites.

 

[whydoibother]

You can't take any deal in act 1.
He will just laugh at you and say something like "I want you to be more desperate" or whatever.
I don't know what did you expect here. Any "deal with the devil" stuff, like everything related to the tadpole being a threat, has been removed in the rewrites.

You can make deals with the hag, and the bard, and the druid, etc, to remove the tadpole. Then they notice ooops its a magical tadpole, I can't remove it actually.
We can easily imagine it would've been the same with Raphael. He offers to help, and later realizes he can't help. Except since he signed the contract, now he is on the hook, demonic lawyers and all. It would be fun.
But I think some documents in his home reveals he supposedly knew the big plan all along? Its a bit unclear what he knows and since when. Rewrites are obvious.

 

[Larianshill]

The cuts that removed Avernus and Raphael's deal make him look like a huge joke.

Spoiler

"Run around looking for solutions, in the end the tadpole will bring you back to me! I am the only one who can make it disappear."
"Actually, I think I'm desperate enough already. Remove it, I'll pay any price."
"Uhhhhh, no, I don't think you're desperate enough yet. Uh, see you."

40 hours of gameplay later.

"Alright, now you're desperate enough. Here's the hammer that can free the gith prince who will protect you from the ceremorphosis. It's basically as good as removing the tadpole! Just sign the dotted line here."
"But you promised me that you can make the tadpole disappear."
"Look, this shit turned out to be a little tougher than I expected, okay? Cut me a fucking break and take the fucking hammer."

 

[janior]

The cuts that removed Avernus and Raphael's deal make him look like a huge joke.

Spoiler

"Run around looking for solutions, in the end the tadpole will bring you back to me! I am the only one who can make it disappear."
"Actually, I think I'm desperate enough already. Remove it, I'll pay any price."
"Uhhhhh, no, I don't think you're desperate enough yet. Uh, see you."

40 hours of gameplay later.

"Alright, now you're desperate enough. Here's the hammer that can free the gith prince who will protect you from the ceremorphosis. It's basically as good as removing the tadpole! Just sign the dotted line here."
"But you promised me that you can make the tadpole disappear."
"Look, this shit turned out to be a little tougher than I expected, okay? Cut me a fucking break and take the fucking hammer."

...and then you can't even use the hammer and he forgets about the whole deal

 

[jf8350143]

My theory is that originally you can actually remove the tadpole(or at least block its power) through different ways and it will leads to different outcomes.

but in the end they just cut everything because it's too difficult to make

 

[AwesomeButton]

What RPG players dislike is when the illusion of choice breaks apart, and the feeling that whatever they choose, they are playing pawns in the designer's choice of story, that's not what an RPG should feel like obviously.

BG3 has more of than than the usual RPG. Compare it to Solasta, another recent RPG using the same ruleset, and its much, much more reactive.
So you can attack BG3 on this front only by comparing it to the platonic ideal, because in comparison to its peers its actually very good.

In the first playthrough there is a genuine feeling you are in control of the story. Of course when you advance in the main story, and you have the experience that we have as players, you will see seams, that's inavoidable.

 

[AwesomeButton]

You can't take any deal in act 1.
He will just laugh at you and say something like "I want you to be more desperate" or whatever.
I don't know what did you expect here. Any "deal with the devil" stuff, like everything related to the tadpole being a threat, has been removed in the rewrites.

You can make deals with the hag, and the bard, and the druid, etc, to remove the tadpole. Then they notice ooops its a magical tadpole, I can't remove it actually.
We can easily imagine it would've been the same with Raphael. He offers to help, and later realizes he can't help. Except since he signed the contract, now he is on the hook, demonic lawyers and all. It would be fun.
But I think some documents in his home reveals he supposedly knew the big plan all along? Its a bit unclear what he knows and since when. Rewrites are obvious.

If it was PnP you could always go to him as a player, and then the DM would give you an early game over, you succeeded, cured yourself but enjoy your soul being tortured for eternity. And everyone at the table laughs.

In the videogame, they could have given you the same game over and ending cutscene. But videogame players, being the spoiled pussies that they are, would have shat on the mere fact of *having* that option.

Reminder that people here shat on the early ending in Act 2 as well.

 

[Larianshill]

My theory is that originally you can actually remove the tadpole(or at least block its power) through different ways and it will leads to different outcomes.

but in the end they just cut everything because it's too difficult to make

It's not a theory, Raphael actually could remove your tadpole in datamined content, and you could buy alternate powers from him with soul coins as a replacement for tadpole powers. I understand why it was cut, the tadpole is too much of a McGuffin that serves as your entire motivation.

 

[AwesomeButton]

My theory is that originally you can actually remove the tadpole(or at least block its power) through different ways and it will leads to different outcomes.

but in the end they just cut everything because it's too difficult to make

I'm a fan of game mechanics to postpone a game over. Nice instrument to introduce time pressure too. Like Gale's weave sniffing, but actually more perceptible. I liked the pills in Far Cry 2, sad they didn't implement a mechanic in Cyberpunk 2077 for the pills. Normies don't like it of course. They want a movie - one playthrough, golden path, best ending, all guaranteed. Oh, and watch a guide just in case

 

[Black]

It was a mistake to listen to "play testers"

Not listening to play testers is how you ended up with DOS 2's armor system.

 

[whydoibother]

You can't take any deal in act 1.
He will just laugh at you and say something like "I want you to be more desperate" or whatever.
I don't know what did you expect here. Any "deal with the devil" stuff, like everything related to the tadpole being a threat, has been removed in the rewrites.

You can make deals with the hag, and the bard, and the druid, etc, to remove the tadpole. Then they notice ooops its a magical tadpole, I can't remove it actually.
We can easily imagine it would've been the same with Raphael. He offers to help, and later realizes he can't help. Except since he signed the contract, now he is on the hook, demonic lawyers and all. It would be fun.
But I think some documents in his home reveals he supposedly knew the big plan all along? Its a bit unclear what he knows and since when. Rewrites are obvious.

If it was PnP you could always go to him as a player, and then the DM would give you an early game over, you succeeded, cured yourself but enjoy your soul being tortured for eternity. And everyone at the table laughs.

In the videogame, they could have given you the same game over and ending cutscene. But videogame players, being the spoiled pussies that they are, would have shat on the mere fact of *having* that option.

Reminder that people here shat on the early ending in Act 2 as well.

I mean, on tabletop you can go to Raphael, negotiate, and convince the DM to give you 3 free levels of Warlock multiclass after you promise to sell the rest of your party's souls to the demon. Then you come back and you are a double agent, working against the party, etc.
As in, breaking convention and rules to have fun. Which would actually not be well received in a video game, since you can't negotiate that with another person in front of you, whom you probably are friends with outside the game too.

We shouldn't compare the freedom of tabletop to the restriction of digital, like how we don't say tabletop is inferior, since you have to do all the math and logging of items manually by hand. They are very different hobbies, like watching football is very different to playing football.

 

[AwesomeButton]

We shouldn't compare the freedom of tabletop to the restriction of digital, like how we don't say tabletop is inferior, since you have to do all the math and logging of items manually by hand. They are very different hobbies, like watching football is very different to playing football.

Comparing playng a video game to watching a sports game as opposed to playing stung hard

Bur I disagree, I think we should judge BG3 on how good an approximation it is of a PnP game. And it's the best we have yet.

 

[Grauken]

It was a mistake to listen to "play testers"

Not listening to play testers is how you ended up with DOS 2's armor system.

That's an easy thing to fix, there's a mod for that. Fixing a story, that's hard to impossible to mod

 

[Grauken]

We shouldn't compare the freedom of tabletop to the restriction of digital, like how we don't say tabletop is inferior, since you have to do all the math and logging of items manually by hand. They are very different hobbies, like watching football is very different to playing football.

Comparing playng a video game to watching a sports game as opposed to playing stung hard

Bur I disagree, I think we should judge BG3 on how good an approximation it is of a PnP game. And it's the best we have yet.

Yeah, it's kind of a mess in the same way that P&P campaigns can be

 

[jf8350143]

The Great Old One subclass and the Fiend subclass has the exact same dialogue when talking to Yurgir, your patreon will always act like it's a devil.

 

[fantadomat]

You can find and kill the murderer of Baldur's Gate, yet all of the victims on his kill list stay as objectives on the map for you, and you can still go and "warn" them of an attempt on their lives.

Edit: until you read his personal notes you find on his corpse. Then the markers disappear. One of the victims remains as a marker, you can find him, and he is already killed. No idea why keep him as a marker, but w/e.

LoL just found out that if you kill the hag the enemies that you could fight will become friendly. In he first chapter i knocked them out but the gamedevs were too dumb to think of such solution,so it only works if you don't engage them and just kill the hag. Found it out in the third chapter,lame.

Only one of them (Regret) actually matters AFAICT and keeping them around makes Hag fight a good bit more of a pain.

How come? The fight i pretty easy,two or three rounds at max.

 

[gurugeorge]

Larian's cool-fun-superpowers-tree

Swen straight up said he thinks people don't get enough new things to play with on levelup, and levelups aren't frequent enough in late game, and you might get bored of your character at some point due to not getting new tools. That's what the illithid talent tree is there for, from a game design stance.
Narratively, it doesn't make much sense, especially since its not directly tied to irreversible progression towards ceremorphosis, and I can't say I like it either, but to be surprised by it is weird. Everyone knew what this is for.

Given the build up with the gith info discs, I was actually expecting the Guardian to be Orpheus, straight-up - somehow trapped wherever he was but able to exert his power to neutralize the tadpoles and guide the player to his rescue. Would have made for a dramatic reveal for Lae'zel too. The Emperor is just a new character who really adds nothing (well, nothing so far, I'm only up to that point in the game). Presumably there will be a further reveal about who he originally was, but by this point I'm not interested.

It's like, with whodunnits, you're supposed to be able to figure out which of the characters who's already been introduced was the culprit, the writer isn't supposed to spring a totally new character on you out of the blue.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Presumably there will be a further reveal about who he originally was

 

[volklore]

Larian's cool-fun-superpowers-tree

Swen straight up said he thinks people don't get enough new things to play with on levelup, and levelups aren't frequent enough in late game, and you might get bored of your character at some point due to not getting new tools. That's what the illithid talent tree is there for, from a game design stance.
Narratively, it doesn't make much sense, especially since its not directly tied to irreversible progression towards ceremorphosis, and I can't say I like it either, but to be surprised by it is weird. Everyone knew what this is for.

Except the reason there's not enough powerups in late game is Larian capping the levels for no apparent reason (except having less spells and class features to implement I guess ?). I reached max level yesterday doing minsc/jaheira quest and it seems I still have tons to do (I can apparently break into raphael's domain, still have both netherstones to get etc...). Its' absolutely mind boggling the level cap is so stingy.

 

[whydoibother]

Presumably there will be a further reveal about who he originally was

Oh boy.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

The Emperor idea is much better than the simple "guardian is the tadpole" rug pull, you just need to think about it from the perspective of a subsequent playthrough.

lmao. The subsequent playthrough where you still know from the start the guardian is a lying piece of shit? Where you know that none of your choices for his or her appearance matter? That playthrough?

The Emperor is just as replay unfriendly as the dream companion. The incentive to use the powers is the same, the reveal that he's not the guardian is the same. The only difference is that he's not some stupid deus ex machina The Adversary ripoff who wants to literally fuck you.

The dream companion was a much better storyline idea. You could give the player other means to outwit the tadpole, or even secure its allegiance. Put it in a more permanent stasis, shut out its ability to speak with you etc. You could even have influence checks for certain companions, whose tadpoles would be showing them different illusions. Lae'zel would believe she's hearing the voice of Gith, for example.

Anything is apparently possible, since the astral tadpole somehow can transform you psychically without even going into your brain. If they're willing to reach that far for their dumb ideas, they could try to make a sensible one work.

 

[Grauken]

The Emperor idea is much better than the simple "guardian is the tadpole" rug pull, you just need to think about it from the perspective of a subsequent playthrough.

lmao. The subsequent playthrough where you still know from the start the guardian is a lying piece of shit? Where you know that none of your choices for his or her appearance matter? That playthrough?

The Emperor is just as replay unfriendly as the dream companion. The incentive to use the powers is the same, the reveal that he's not the guardian is the same. The only difference is that he's not some stupid deus ex machina The Adversary ripoff who wants to literally fuck you.

The dream companion was a much better storyline idea. You could give the player other means to outwit the tadpole, or even secure its allegiance. Put it in a more permanent stasis, shut out its ability to speak with you etc. You could even have influence checks for certain companions, whose tadpoles would be showing them different illusions. Lae'zel would believe she's hearing the voice of Gith, for example.

Anything is apparently possible, since the astral tadpole somehow can transform you psychically without even going into your brain. If they're willing to reach that far for their dumb ideas, they could try to make a sensible one work.

You're really hung up on Daisy

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

You're really hung up on Daisy

No, I really hate The Emperor.

Come up with another idea, faggot. I don't care. Anything but this.

edit: oh you're very butthurt, I see.

 

[whydoibother]

You're really hung up on Daisy

No, I really hate The Emperor.

Come up with another idea, faggot. I don't care. Anything but this.

How about: The Guardian is indeed an illusion, but behind it stands the Giga Brain, who is trying to get you to kill the three avatars of the Dead Gods so it can free itself, and then dominate you. It works with lies, seduction, pretend friendship, etc, but the end is either you kill it, or dominate it, or it dominates you.