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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

SmilingGorion

Novice
Joined
Aug 12, 2023
Messages
40
I thought mods were old news.

PzY3GBb.png
What's up with people making Wyll White? It won't fix his underdeveloped writing and story.
Just ask modders to make an entirely new game at that point. Every bit of writing is underdeveloped.
 

Dishonoredbr

Erudite
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
2,438
I thought mods were old news.

PzY3GBb.png
What's up with people making Wyll White? It won't fix his underdeveloped writing and story.
Just ask modders to make an entirely new game at that point. Every bit of writing is underdeveloped.
They had to focus all their effort into giving Shadowheart not one , but two Flashbacks and entire act 2 for her companion quest. Be respectful towards Larian pls lmao.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
13,123
I would argue that Forgotten Realms are fine as settings go. Not amazing but perfectly fine. We had games with good writing and story set in the universe.

It's Larian who drags the setting down with their writting.
The point of FR is that it's a kitchen sink setting and these games ALWAYS focus on the most cookie-cutter parts, namely the Sword Coast.
Make a game set in fucking Thay, I dare you.
Ed Greenwood's Forgotten Realms campaign focused on the Sword Coast, and virtually everything interesting about the setting as published by TSR was created by TSR (employees or contractors). Since the demise of TSR, the Forgotten Realms has simply been reverting to its origins as a campaign setting below even the level of generic pseudo-medieval fantasy, dominated by the Sword Coast as a Renaissance Fair version of contemporary America/Canada.
 

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,632
Ed Greenwood's Forgotten Realms campaign focused on the Sword Coast, and virtually everything interesting about the setting as published by TSR was created by TSR (employees or contractors).
What about Cormyr and the Dalelands? Arguably the most prominent Faerun locations not on the Sword Coast and the linchpin of the Eastern Heartlands, been around since the first FR campaign setting and featured prominently in the second edition.

The new campaign setting contains:

A Grand Tour of the Realms – a 128-page book, concentrating on the Heartlands, the land of the Dales, Cormyr, and Waterdeep, and chock full of useful information about other significant Realms locations on the continent of Faerûn.


[...]

Greenwood also co-wrote the first and third novels in The Cormyr Saga with Grubb and Denning respectively, and the former's half palace intrigue and half historical encyclopedia. And reading it definitely gave me the impression that Grubb was handling the intrigue parts and Greenwood the history from the writing styles.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
17,053
Location
Frostfell
Virgin succubus?
I've thought Planescape is popular here.

Is great but is not perfect. I din`t liked that they went too far with FF7 style cinematic spells and some times went subversion for subversion sake with the case of the succubi in the game.

Make a game set in fucking Thay, I dare you.

I would love but would`t happen. Having a diehard magocracy full of slavery would cause so much butthurt and WoTC would never allow it and if allow it, would`t be thay, would be another "commiefornia" like country.

So it’s Divinity garbage

Divine Divinity and Ego Draconis was not bad imo. No, I`m not saying that are masterpieces, only that I liked a bit both. Imagine if Larian remakes DD and allow us to play with a optional turn based mode. That would be great.
 

axedice

Cipher
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
483
Location
Mersin
I suggest playing with Durge if you haven't already, it feels more like a Baldur's Gate game. Also evil playthrough was better than I expected, at least in the first two acts. Unfortunately act3 fails with C&C, there isn't a lot to do besides becoming the new murderlord and gaining access to the most OP item in the game (Bhaalist Armor) without cheesing. The level cap definetely reduces your enthusiasm in enganing with the mediocre parts of the last act.

I was positively surprised with Larian's itemization choices, they do cover up the mediocrity of 5e mechanics by offering up different builds. Concentration as a mechanic has all but gutted clerics to oblivion, and rogue's are only there for multiclassing. But almost all other classes/kits offer something of value combined with OP items, so finding and and abusing them to OTKs on bosses (without barrelmancy) in honor mode was kind of fun. I expected a lot less from Larian, but the game delivered on all side aspects from voice acting to music as well (that raphael fight was amazing in atmosphere, if not in difficulty). Special kudos to Sven here, he kept to his "vision" even with chinese overseers and did not release an unpolished mess only to be received as a cult classic.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
13,166
I suggest playing with Durge if you haven't already
I was among those who thought that Durge is premade character so I didnt go for it.

Anyway it sounds like they are still tampering with evil choices so I am sitting on that one
 

Swen

Scholar
Shitposter
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
2,229
Location
Belgium, Ghent
Special kudos to Sven here, he kept to his "vision" even with chinese overseers and did not release an unpolished mess only to be received as a cult classic.
The "chinese overseers" have no power over larian though. It's like minority stock holder, they can't push anything besides selling their shares.
 

dukeofwoodberry

Educated
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Messages
516
I suggest playing with Durge if you haven't already, it feels more like a Baldur's Gate game. Also evil playthrough was better than I expected, at least in the first two acts. Unfortunately act3 fails with C&C, there isn't a lot to do besides becoming the new murderlord and gaining access to the most OP item in the game (Bhaalist Armor) without cheesing. The level cap definetely reduces your enthusiasm in enganing with the mediocre parts of the last act.

I was positively surprised with Larian's itemization choices, they do cover up the mediocrity of 5e mechanics by offering up different builds. Concentration as a mechanic has all but gutted clerics to oblivion, and rogue's are only there for multiclassing. But almost all other classes/kits offer something of value combined with OP items, so finding and and abusing them to OTKs on bosses (without barrelmancy) in honor mode was kind of fun. I expected a lot less from Larian, but the game delivered on all side aspects from voice acting to music as well (that raphael fight was amazing in atmosphere, if not in difficulty). Special kudos to Sven here, he kept to his "vision" even with chinese overseers and did not release an unpolished mess only to be received as a cult classic.
Life, light and tempest clerics are some of the best classes in the game
 

axedice

Cipher
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
483
Location
Mersin
They have no abilities that won't be outshined by other classes/combinations. Life sucks outright, if you're spending your actions on healing your party instead of killing/disabling enemies, then you're not playing the game right. Improved warding flare does not justify having weak attacks/spells by itself and tempest cleric is just a 2 lvl dip on another caster (a subpar caster compared to fire variant imo). The only cleric spell worthy of a build is radiating orb/reverbration with spirit guardians, but you'll be better playing a lore bard with the same setup. Warding bond fills a specific niche early on in the campaign before you get the items, but that is as far as I'd go playing a cleric.
 

dukeofwoodberry

Educated
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Messages
516
They have no abilities that won't be outshined by other classes/combinations. Life sucks outright, if you're spending your actions on healing your party instead of killing/disabling enemies, then you're not playing the game right. Improved warding flare does not justify having weak attacks/spells by itself and tempest cleric is just a 2 lvl dip on another caster (a subpar caster compared to fire variant imo). The only cleric spell worthy of a build is radiating orb/reverbration with spirit guardians, but you'll be better playing a lore bard with the same setup. Warding bond fills a specific niche early on in the campaign before you get the items, but that is as far as I'd go playing a cleric.
I mean there's a bunch of good gear for healing that puts bonus effects on your party that makes life cleric very worthwhile. Lore bard is not better with a spirit Guardians build than light cleric.
 

axedice

Cipher
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
483
Location
Mersin
There are two healing based items worthy of mentioning: the bless ring and the blade ward gloves. Neither effect is powerful enough to warrant the use of a lousy base class that can not do anything else, especially after lvl5. You're even better off throwing potions. Lore bard is better than light cleric since it gets a second secret (counterspell or hadar) that can turn the tides of battles. And cutting words is a much more flexible and useful debuff than improved warding flare.
 

dukeofwoodberry

Educated
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Messages
516
There are two healing based items worthy of mentioning: the bless ring and the blade ward gloves. Neither effect is powerful enough to warrant the use of a lousy base class that can not do anything else, especially after lvl5. You're even better off throwing potions. Lore bard is better than light cleric since it gets a second secret (counterspell or hadar) that can turn the tides of battles. And cutting words is a much more flexible and useful debuff than improved warding flare.
Lore bard isn't going to have the necessary beef to get in close and apply spirit guardians like light cleric.

And I find both those items very powerful on life cleric. Generic high level cleric spells are very useful, not sure why you think otherwise.
 

axedice

Cipher
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
483
Location
Mersin
Lore bard isn't going to have the necessary beef to get in close and apply spirit guardians like light cleric.

And I find both those items very powerful on life cleric. Generic high level cleric spells are very useful, not sure why you think otherwise.

What beef? They both have the same HP, light cleric has no heavy armor proficiency either. Luminous armor is the only item where a lvl5-6 cleric will have the advantage over lore bard for this specific build, after that until the endgame one level dip for heavy armor will bring the bard ahead of cleric anyway. Thinking about it, some cleric kits having heavy armor proficiency may be their only saving grace, as they also have full caster progression and some adventuring benefits like resistance etc.

My argument here is not that nothing in the cleric kit works. Yes I've abused upcasted aid and heroes feast from hirelings as well (never bothered with warding bonds, especially with gale's camp immortality). I'm saying that any benefit the cleric brings to the table as an active party member, especially in the late game, can be surpassed by powerful kits/combinations that enable smoother gameplay and easier combats. I can't say the same for fighters, bards, sorcerers, barbarians or paladins, they all have a unique mechanic around which you can make a powerful build. Druids and monks with tavern brawler have certain advantages and can even be built for specific use cases to provide almost equal value, hunters and wizards can either be good dips or backbones of powerful builds, and warlock is kinda not my flavor but not so weak when correctly built either. But a cleric brings nothing unique to the table, just like the rogue it is a class only worth of a fews levels dipping for whatever purpose of the main build.

This is mainly due to the concentration mechanic, where powerful buff spells are limited to one per caster. Now if the creators of 5e have added something to the cleric class (aura buffs/debuffs or a late game ability that enables 2 concentrations at a time etc. only available to the cleric) , they may have been uniquely powerful. Now you have druids or bards to cast heroes feast, freedom of movement or spirit guardians. And with benefits from their own kits, these classes outshine the cleric at every step.

I am talking about honor mode and trampling enemies on the first turn of course. You can play a cleric providing minor buffs and utility to your other 3 party members who actually pull the load, and feel good about the added hp from aid or the bonuses from bless. But what cleric brings to the table does not change the gameplay dramatically enough to warrant their use, as it does in 3.5e games. So instead of using a cleric, I use a bard (hell my last playthrough had 2 bards, one lore bard/sorceror and one classic swords bard fighter archer with acuity) , and swiped the floor with my enemies.
 

dukeofwoodberry

Educated
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Messages
516
Lore bard isn't going to have the necessary beef to get in close and apply spirit guardians like light cleric.

And I find both those items very powerful on life cleric. Generic high level cleric spells are very useful, not sure why you think otherwise.

What beef? They both have the same HP, light cleric has no heavy armor proficiency either. Luminous armor is the only item where a lvl5-6 cleric will have the advantage over lore bard for this specific build, after that until the endgame one level dip for heavy armor will bring the bard ahead of cleric anyway. Thinking about it, some cleric kits having heavy armor proficiency may be their only saving grace, as they also have full caster progression and some adventuring benefits like resistance etc.

My argument here is not that nothing in the cleric kit works. Yes I've abused upcasted aid and heroes feast from hirelings as well (never bothered with warding bonds, especially with gale's camp immortality). I'm saying that any benefit the cleric brings to the table as an active party member, especially in the late game, can be surpassed by powerful kits/combinations that enable smoother gameplay and easier combats. I can't say the same for fighters, bards, sorcerers, barbarians or paladins, they all have a unique mechanic around which you can make a powerful build. Druids and monks with tavern brawler have certain advantages and can even be built for specific use cases to provide almost equal value, hunters and wizards can either be good dips or backbones of powerful builds, and warlock is kinda not my flavor but not so weak when correctly built either. But a cleric brings nothing unique to the table, just like the rogue it is a class only worth of a fews levels dipping for whatever purpose of the main build.

This is mainly due to the concentration mechanic, where powerful buff spells are limited to one per caster. Now if the creators of 5e have added something to the cleric class (aura buffs/debuffs or a late game ability that enables 2 concentrations at a time etc. only available to the cleric) , they may have been uniquely powerful. Now you have druids or bards to cast heroes feast, freedom of movement or spirit guardians. And with benefits from their own kits, these classes outshine the cleric at every step.

I am talking about honor mode and trampling enemies on the first turn of course. You can play a cleric providing minor buffs and utility to your other 3 party members who actually pull the load, and feel good about the added hp from aid or the bonuses from bless. But what cleric brings to the table does not change the gameplay dramatically enough to warrant their use, as it does in 3.5e games. So instead of using a cleric, I use a bard (hell my last playthrough had 2 bards, one lore bard/sorceror and one classic swords bard fighter archer with acuity) , and swiped the floor with my enemies.
Medium armor and shield is a pretty sizable AC difference especially since our dexterity will probably be 14 in this build (perfect for medium armor.) You could try a 1 level fighter dip on bard which would further delay your magical secrets and spirit guardians until level 7. Versus getting spirit guardians at level 5. Fighter/lore bard might be a bit better eventually but comes online later.

Heavy armor is definitely a big selling point for the cleric class. You can't just gloss that over. A full caster that can wear heavy armor and shield proficiency too. Cleric is most definitely not under powered. I was recently complaining about charisma based casters being OP especially Sorcerer and Bard. But cleric is better than wizard and druid imo.

Cleric is amazing as a dip for heavy armor proficiency, shield/weapon profs and domain feature at level 1. Tempest domain is also part of the multi in some top tier builds.

Swords bard multis are absolutely broken to the point of making the game unfun. If you're comparing almost any class in the game to that it's going to look bad.
 

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