Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

[Raghar]

Sarevok has become redeemeable because BG2 (as well as ToB) is shit made for gays with the main villain being an emo.

BG1 had the same writers (Lukas Kristjanson, James Ohlen) as BG2 and ToB. James Ohlen even becomes the director for ToB. So it is not like some different people are suddenly taking the game in a different direction. But nice try.

Who was writer in BG1 and wasn't in ToB. ToB was obviously an expansion to be a money grab thus if story for all 3 parts wasn't planned since beginning, writing quality suffers by default.

 

[Nikanuur]

Nigger what. She literally dumps sobby shit on you constantly as you were her psychotherapist. Its a “plese help” written all over by a 20 yo hentai coomer.

Almost all characters who are not written as straight evil (Edwin and Korgan) do that, so this is not unique to Viconia. Hell, even Sarevok, the ultimate villain from BG1 - is reedemable in ToB. This comes with the assumption that your companions are living beings, with their own personal problems they have to deal with. Frankly, I like that their characters can change (positively or negatively). Makes them feel less two-dimensional. The fact that they press you to do their personal quests (or have their preferences as to how you run the party) is another good thing, because it creates the illusion of urgency and agency. It creates some interesting inter-party dynamics, as opposed to "companions" who are nothing more than witless golems with classes assigned to them.

Sarevok has become redeemeable because BG2 (as well as ToB) is shit made for gays with the main villain being an emo.

And yet, in the broader sense of things, bringing the evil ones on the path of goodness is a thing that makes more sense than just dispatching them to the nether-worlds.

Broader things = as if, if you kill them, they just return back as the same evil, wanting even more revenge because you are now someone who wronged them too. You can name it karma, reincarnations with similar predispositions, The Wheel, Vendetta, etc.; however, we have many IRL or gaming theories, sociological studies, or psychological clichés that describe the similar phenomena. And that actually, only true healing of the wrongdoings (evil beings often become evil because someone has wronged them) actually repairs something and stops the ever growing circle of repercussion, hate, destruction, etc.

It's some serious Yoda stuff. And one that is hard to swallow, too, because it puts the "good guys" in an even more unfavorable position—they can't use the same easy-to-come-by faculties as evil can.

Don't get me wrong. Some evil beings are quite utterly irredeemable, and I like to kill evil goblins by the thousands in games. Or I don't strike deals with Liches, hh. Also, I'd probably smack an asshole's face when he took it way too far and repeatedly irl, and I wouldn't defer from violence if it meant saving my loved ones and other options have been depleted, etc. And no, I wouldn't philosoraptor about my attacker's feelings or whatever before defending and hitting back. Maybe only if it puts me in a more favorable position towards victory, etc.

But here, at the table, before the monitor, thinking and musing what's what... I don't know what else makes more sense in the larger picture than the theory of breaking the wheel. In RPGs and IRL too. I've yet to hear one, though I'd hear it very gladly. I don't like this theory much myself, to be honest.

 

[Hydro]

Sarevok has become redeemeable because BG2 (as well as ToB) is shit made for gays with the main villain being an emo.

BG1 had the same writers (Lukas Kristjanson, James Ohlen) as BG2 and ToB. James Ohlen even becomes the director for ToB. So it is not like some different people are suddenly taking the game in a different direction. But nice try.

Exactly. It’s the romancefags like you.

Nigger what. She literally dumps sobby shit on you constantly as you were her psychotherapist. Its a “plese help” written all over by a 20 yo hentai coomer.

Almost all characters who are not written as straight evil (Edwin and Korgan) do that, so this is not unique to Viconia. Hell, even Sarevok, the ultimate villain from BG1 - is reedemable in ToB. This comes with the assumption that your companions are living beings, with their own personal problems they have to deal with. Frankly, I like that their characters can change (positively or negatively). Makes them feel less two-dimensional. The fact that they press you to do their personal quests (or have their preferences as to how you run the party) is another good thing, because it creates the illusion of urgency and agency. It creates some interesting inter-party dynamics, as opposed to "companions" who are nothing more than witless golems with classes assigned to them.

Sarevok has become redeemeable because BG2 (as well as ToB) is shit made for gays with the main villain being an emo.

And yet, in the broader sense of things, bringing the evil ones on the path of goodness is a thing that makes more sense than just dispatching them to the nether-worlds.

Broader things = as if, if you kill them, they just return back as the same evil, wanting even more revenge because you are now someone who wronged them too. You can name it karma, reincarnations with similar predispositions, The Wheel, Vendetta, etc.; however, we have many IRL or gaming theories, sociological studies, or psychological clichés that describe the similar phenomena. And that actually, only true healing of the wrongdoings (evil beings often become evil because someone has wronged them) actually repairs something and stops the ever growing circle of repercussion, hate, destruction, etc.

It's some serious Yoda stuff. And one that is hard to swallow, too, because it puts the "good guys" in an even more unfavorable position—they can't use the same easy-to-come-by faculties as evil can.

Don't get me wrong. Some evil beings are quite utterly irredeemable, and I like to kill evil goblins by the thousands in games. Or I don't strike deals with Liches, hh. Also, I'd probably smack an asshole's face when he took it way too far and repeatedly irl, and I wouldn't defer from violence if it meant saving my loved ones and other options have been depleted, etc. And no, I wouldn't philosoraptor about my attacker's feelings or whatever before defending and hitting back. Maybe only if it puts me in a more favorable position towards victory, etc.

But here, at the table, before the monitor, thinking and musing what's what... I don't know what else makes more sense in the larger picture than the theory of breaking the wheel. In RPGs and IRL too. I've yet to hear one, though I'd hear it very gladly. I don't like this theory much myself, to be honest.

Too much thought, there’s only one reason corpos bring back old villains — they are creatively bankrupt. Sarevok was a perfect villain, hence he has to be ressurected each time a corpo wants to rape the BG’s corpse.

 

[Harthwain]

Who was writer in BG1 and wasn't in ToB. ToB was obviously an expansion to be a money grab thus if story for all 3 parts wasn't planned since beginning, writing quality suffers by default.

James Ohlen is credited as "Director of Writting and Design". Nobody else is directly credited as writer. Lukas Kristjanson (the previous writer) is listed as "Additional Designer" under James Ohlen, for whatever that is worth.

Source: https://www.mobygames.com/game/4222...e-of-bhaal/credits/windows/?autoplatform=true

As for why you can recruit Sarevok (and redeem him) at all... I think it is simpler and more direct. Probably somebody thought "What about the player in ToB having the possibility to recruit Sarevok into his party? Wouldn't that be cool?" and it isn't entirely unwarranted. After all, how many games allow you to command former bosses/villains/notable characters?

Exactly. It’s the romancefags like you.

I see you don't have much worthwhile to say at all so I am resting my case. You're not really worth the time and attention I've given you already and I am not going to make the same mistake again.

 

[Nikanuur]

Too much thought, there’s only one reason corpos bring back old villains — they are creatively bankrupt. Sarevok was a perfect villain, hence he has to be ressurected each time a corpo wants to rape the BG’s corpse.

Ok, remind me to hire you when a job needs to get done. Respects!

However, woe is me, if I let you even remotely close into anything related to relationships, good business, creating a better world and all that "gay nonsense" as you would've likely put it.
Oh wait, but that's like, in part, an absolute majority of human on human and society on society dealings.
Where's YOUR philosoraptoring now, muhehehe!

 

[Infinitron]

David Gaider joined BioWare after BG1.

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/l...y-by-approaching-it-as-weird-dungeon-masters/

Larian gave Baldur's Gate 3 its acclaimed reactivity by approaching it as 'weird Dungeon Masters'​

"We don't know who you want to kill, but you will want to kill someone."

There are plenty of things to love about Baldur's Gate 3, from the way its tactical battles never feel like filler to the best-in-class performances that bring its characters to life. But what marks it out from almost every other RPG, especially those that take 60+ hours to play, is its reactivity. Events and lines of dialogue are constantly referencing specific things you did and said earlier on, choices you made all the way back to the character creation screen, without ever making you feel like it's cheating by collapsing the possibilities down to a more manageable number.

Speaking at BAFTA's "An Evening with Baldur's Gate 3", Larian's co-founder and CEO Swen Vincke, writing director Adam Smith, and lead writer Chrystal Ding gave some insight into just how much work went into ensuring Baldur's Gate 3 was so reactive.

Ding mentioned that while there were testers combing through the entire game, those dealing with the piled-up mountain of choices that influenced the ending had a particularly huge amount of work. "Just today I found the spreadsheet where we kept track of this," she said, "and it's one of those where you just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. Every single path of like: What if I have Karlach, Lae'zel, and Shadowheart? What if Shadowheart did this ending? What if so-and-so did this ending? What if they did that ending? It's row after row after row, and it takes a small army to go through that."

Smith emphasized that empowering players with all this choice meant giving up on the idea of there being any one "correct" way to play. "A mantra for me is: The main character of the game is the person playing the game," he said, "whether they're playing an origin or whether they're playing a Tav, custom character. They have to be the main character. So therefore that's the canonical story."

Expanding on how they decided what options to present to players, Vincke explained, "We always approached it as weird Dungeon Masters. The players are going to find everything and we just have to anticipate what all these players want to do—which is impossible, of course, but we try to do as much as we could."

And that went as far as letting players be a bunch of little murderhobos if that's what they wanted. "This is why we allow you to kill pretty much every single character in the game," he said. "We don't know who you want to kill, but you will want to kill someone."

"It's Wulbren," added Smith.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

I'm so disappointed bg3 and most games never have a lawful evil route. It's either good or murder hobo. How cool would an evil ending have been where you maybe double cross bhaal by making a deal with bane or something? Would love a proper tyranny lawful evil type storyline

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

It's getting a little tiresome to always have bhaal be "the guy." Pretty incompetent overall. Would love to give bane a chance or at least have some sort of option between lawful evil and chaotic evil.

Tbh this forgotten realm setting is so gay that being evil is pretty much your only option. I'm tired of all this muh refugee, so sad non sense. Paladins have lost all meaning are fags themselves so give a cool lawful evil option

 

[Cyberarmy]

I'm so disappointed bg3 and most games never have a lawful evil route. It's either good or murder hobo. How cool would an evil ending have been where you maybe double cross bhaal by making a deal with bane or something? Would love a proper tyranny lawful evil type storyline

Best I can give is Wrath of the Righteous Lich or Devil path.

 

[Ghost Of Iron]

There are no competent Evil deities in the Forgotten Realms setting. Greenwood never managed to make any of them a credible threat, either as an entity or through their churches. They attempted to fix this by deleting Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal and replacing them all with Cyric, who was supposed to be the true, powerful evil deity threat to adventurers from that point on, but they wrote and implemented him so terribly he ended up as even more of a joke than the deities he replaced. So rather than try something else new, or actually find a way to fix Cyric, they just threw up their hands and brought Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal back outright.

Honestly I don't think there's a single well written deity period in the entire Forgotten Realms setting, in general. It honestly feels like the major NPCs in the setting are far more important and relevant than any deity or church ever is.

 

[Gahbreeil]

 

[Haplo]

Kinda pisses me off that DnD 4E and 5E are so crap rules that PC games made from that are typically shit.

I don't really know about 4E, don't care. But 5th ed. translates into a crpg pretty great in BG3.

I personally liked 3,5 or Pathfinder the most (...in a video game that is). But I agree with you.

Oh, I liked 3 / 3,5 and particularly Owlcat's Pathfinder games as well!
Owlcat games have spoiled me so much I probably couldn't go back to older games, with older DnD rulesets.

But 5th ed. in BG3 is working well for me.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

There are no competent Evil deities in the Forgotten Realms setting. Greenwood never managed to make any of them a credible threat, either as an entity or through their churches. They attempted to fix this by deleting Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal and replacing them all with Cyric, who was supposed to be the true, powerful evil deity threat to adventurers from that point on, but they wrote and implemented him so terribly he ended up as even more of a joke than the deities he replaced. So rather than try something else new, or actually find a way to fix Cyric, they just threw up their hands and brought Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal back outright.

Honestly I don't think there's a single well written deity period in the entire Forgotten Realms setting, in general. It honestly feels like the major NPCs in the setting are far more important and relevant than any deity or church ever is.

Just cause bane has been written shitty before doesn't mean they can't turn it around. A god of tyranny is a pretty good concept. Bhaal will always be a retard because what kind of world would be based around murdering everyone? His followers are a bunch of necrophiliac weirdos

 

[Fedora Master]

These extremely specialized deities never made sense.

If Larian had actual talent they could have made story exploring what it means to be divinely compelled to murder buuuut we got the Netherbrain instead.

 

[Old Hans]

there is so much stuff about this game that I hate but I keep playing it.

 

[Hydro]

there is so much stuff about this game that I hate but I keep playing it.

Very well documented medieval Belgian torture

 

[Old Hans]

there is so much stuff about this game that I hate but I keep playing it.

Very well documented medieval Belgian torture

speaking of torture, it never gets old torturing that guy in the goblin camp even though I already know where the grove is

 

[Rhobar121]

These extremely specialized deities never made sense.

If Larian had actual talent they could have made story exploring what it means to be divinely compelled to murder buuuut we got the Netherbrain instead.

Considering that wotc has full control over the brand, they probably couldn't write whatever they wanted.
Wotc they almost certainly wouldn't allow something that was in any way controversial, even if it wasn't, they would probably find out anyway.
Not that the Larian writers are in any way good, but you can't write anything decent under the control of a shitty company like wotc.

 

[Barbarian]

Shadow monk is real good and real fun.

I'm doing a meme build around the shadow blade ring. The only problem with it is losing concentration now and then. But then you are a monk so it is no big deal(just punch and kick for the rest of the fight).

Is this the only class kit with the most powerful ability locked to higher levels? I mean "shadow strike" at level 11.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

Kinda pisses me off that DnD 4E and 5E are so crap rules that PC games made from that are typically shit.

I don't really know about 4E, don't care. But 5th ed. translates into a crpg pretty great in BG3.

I personally liked 3,5 or Pathfinder the most (...in a video game that is). But I agree with you.

Oh, I liked 3 / 3,5 and particularly Owlcat's Pathfinder games as well!
Owlcat games have spoiled me so much I probably couldn't go back to older games, with older DnD rulesets.

But 5th ed. in BG3 is working well for me.

Too much constant pre buffing

 

[Fedora Master]

Pre Buffing is only an issue in games that don't have proper controls for it.
Making 90% of buffs utterly worthless isn't the answer.

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

Been playing my honor mode run and the gameplay is very top notch imo (the story and companions mostly suck of course.)

But honor mode dropped the ball on fixing a lot of broken shit. Arcane acuity probably the top one. It makes the martial casters strictly superior to pure casters. Yeah I do good damage with weapons and then have spells that the enemies can't save. Bad mechanic.

Vendors should have a limited number of restocks. 3 total or something like that. Elixirs should lost for 10 turns instead of all day. Those changes would improve honor mode significantly

 

[Hydro]

Been playing my honor mode run and the gameplay is very top notch imo (the story and companions mostly suck of course.)

But honor mode dropped the ball on fixing a lot of broken shit. Arcane acuity probably the top one. It makes the martial casters strictly superior to pure casters. Yeah I do good damage with weapons and then have spells that the enemies can't save. Bad mechanic.

Vendors should have a limited number of restocks. 3 total or something like that. Elixirs should lost for 10 turns instead of all day. Those changes would improve honor mode significantly

Does honor mode require heavy minmaxing?

Also I found one save mode to be easily bypassed by mass suicide a party. Does honor mode allow to load game after wipe out?

 

[dukeofwoodberry]

Regarding vendors and stealing. I think it should be a lot

Been playing my honor mode run and the gameplay is very top notch imo (the story and companions mostly suck of course.)

But honor mode dropped the ball on fixing a lot of broken shit. Arcane acuity probably the top one. It makes the martial casters strictly superior to pure casters. Yeah I do good damage with weapons and then have spells that the enemies can't save. Bad mechanic.

Vendors should have a limited number of restocks. 3 total or something like that. Elixirs should lost for 10 turns instead of all day. Those changes would improve honor mode significantly

Does honor mode require heavy minmaxing?

Also I found one save mode to be easily bypassed by mass suicide a party. Does honor mode allow to load game after wipe out?

Not heavy min maxxing because of skill checks and inspirations imo. In act 1 I was doing the kagha quest and I was getting my ass beat my the mud melphite and wood creatures but I had the ogre horn so I called them in. I would have definitely lost that fight and the game without it. But min maxxing will definitely make the game smoother and easier. I'll do some min maxxing to a degree like cleaning out a vendor's scrolls and consumables (pickpocket) on almost every long rest. But stuff like arcane acuity I won't use. That makes the game too easy.

If you have a party wipe, you lose honor mode. You can keep playing the honor mode rules for that campaign but you technically lose honor mode.

 

[Haplo]

Shadow monk is real good and real fun.

I'm doing a meme build around the shadow blade ring. The only problem with it is losing concentration now and then. But then you are a monk so it is no big deal(just punch and kick for the rest of the fight).

Is this the only class kit with the most powerful ability locked to higher levels? I mean "shadow strike" at level 11.

There's also Hunter Ranger with freely spammable Volley / Whirlwind at level 11.

Shadow Strike is cool in theory, but then you realise you could land 2 normal attacks instead in the time it takes to set it up, do more damage and spend no ki. Plus reap the low hanging multiclassing benefits instead (like Action Surge, Gloomstalker additional Attack on combat start, rogue another Bonus Action or autocrits).