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Baldurs Gate vs Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Which game is better?


  • Total voters
    104

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
What about the pathfinder world? Is it better than forgotten realms?

That's a tough one for me. I really like what I've seen (and read about) of the Pathfinder world so far. A lot, it's really good. But D&D and specifically the Forgotten Realms is also very good, and there's more of it embedded in my mind with all of the D&D games. So I'd say it's too early to compare. When the Kingmaker sequel comes out it'll be fairer to compare the two.

But Pathfinder is very good. I like the pantheon of Gods, the world itself, how technology is sprinkled in (and aliens, a spacecraft crashed in Numeria) and the world history and lore. It's close to me between the two.
 

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
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What about the pathfinder world? Is it better than forgotten realms?
better than 4e forgotten realm, worse than any other forgotten realm, and 5e setting pretty much contain all the settings.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,594
FR is better simply because Pathfinder is worst than the kitchen sink. It is all over the place. Alien ship with futuristic weapons, entire nation of devil worshippers, entire gypsy region complete with unkillable slumbering lich king and brooding castles, more demonic cultists in high ranking places than you can shake a stick at, a gateway to the Abyss the size of a nation. It is a wonder that it isn't the equivalent of the endless battles of Archeron and defies logic that there are still Good aligned anything left in the world.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
Alien ship with futuristic weapons, entire nation of devil worshippers, entire gypsy region complete with unkillable slumbering lich king and brooding castles, more demonic cultists in high ranking places than you can shake a stick at, a gateway to the Abyss the size of a nation.

That sounds like all pluses to me. :)
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
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Alien ship with futuristic weapons, entire nation of devil worshippers, entire gypsy region complete with unkillable slumbering lich king and brooding castles, more demonic cultists in high ranking places than you can shake a stick at, a gateway to the Abyss the size of a nation.

That sounds like all pluses to me. :)
Stupidly illogical. That many Evil nations would mean the world is a seething cauldron of constant warfare and downward spiral. It isn't and hasn't for at least a hundred years.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
Stupidly illogical. That many Evil nations would mean the world is a seething cauldron of constant warfare and downward spiral. It isn't and hasn't for at least a hundred years.

Well if the world is huge and there's Good nations to balance it out, it's logical. Some nations don't seem so bad in Kingmaker, and you're actively turning the Stolen Lands into (potentially) a large, Good-aligned nation.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,594
Stupidly illogical. That many Evil nations would mean the world is a seething cauldron of constant warfare and downward spiral. It isn't and hasn't for at least a hundred years.

Well if the world is huge and there's Good nations to balance it out, it's logical. Some nations don't seem so bad in Kingmaker, and you're actively turning the Stolen Lands into (potentially) a large, Good-aligned nation.
There are some Good aligned nations, but there are a bunch of other crazies in the mix. At least two groups of viking style nations complete with "Might Rules" slogans, a vast forest of psycho fae, an India analogue complete with Asian vampires and the like, etc. The gypsy neo-Gothic area I mentioned above covers about 3-5 nations at least. Evil far outnumber Good, and the game gives you (slightly) better choices as Evil compared to Good, which is a good indication of where that is heading.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
There are some Good aligned nations, but there are a bunch of other crazies in the mix. At least two groups of viking style nations complete with "Might Rules" slogans, a vast forest of psycho fae, an India analogue complete with Asian vampires and the like, etc. The gypsy neo-Gothic area I mentioned above covers about 3-5 nations at least. Evil far outnumber Good, and the game gives you (slightly) better choices as Evil compared to Good, which is a good indication of where that is heading.

Sounds fun! :) In the way the game presents it, a lot of the nations seem like they're crumbling or savage, and that a lot of them have in-fighting. I dunno, I like it so far, but I'm only going by what's been shown in the game, not the actual Pathfinder setting outside of that.

And I actually liked the Numeria lore with the crashed spaceship. I'd love to explore that region a bit in the expansion. Or Absalom perhaps.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,594
There are some Good aligned nations, but there are a bunch of other crazies in the mix. At least two groups of viking style nations complete with "Might Rules" slogans, a vast forest of psycho fae, an India analogue complete with Asian vampires and the like, etc. The gypsy neo-Gothic area I mentioned above covers about 3-5 nations at least. Evil far outnumber Good, and the game gives you (slightly) better choices as Evil compared to Good, which is a good indication of where that is heading.

Sounds fun! :) In the way the game presents it, a lot of the nations seem like they're crumbling or savage, and that a lot of them have in-fighting. I dunno, I like it so far, but I'm only going by what's been shown in the game, not the actual Pathfinder setting outside of that.

And I actually liked the Numeria lore with the crashed spaceship. I'd love to explore that region a bit in the expansion. Or Absalom perhaps.
Too fantasy kitchen sink for me, although I did enjoy Janny Wurt's Cycle of Fire trilogy. She kept the spaceship thing to a bare minimum and only at the end of the trilogy, though.
 

Barabus

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I played 30 hours of Kingmaker and really enjoyed it. I am however afraid that one day my kingdom will crumble and I’ll grt game over because of something stupid.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Bulgaria
All three games are great,still voted for BG2. The PK writing is too modern and filled with retarded sjw shit,also you can't attack anyone that you want,which is a decline.
 

ga♥

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
7,616
1 - BG series style of writing was light hearted. With "funny" chars all over the place. Friendly beholders and guys like Noober. PF:K has WarctaftIII style of graphic while trying to be more "serious". I prefer BG tbqh.
2 - Items description; every item of loot in BG had a lenghty description, even gems (gems descriptions, how they are used in spells, where they can be found were awesome!). Most of the magical items had a story and name instead of "longsword +1, +1 furious". PF:K really feels like random generated loot.
3 - Magic was central in BG2. While in PF:K, mages are more support chars. No epic liches/dragon/whatnot magic battles. Also less scrolls, less spells.
4 - PF:K rest/encumbrance system IS FAR superior to BG, where you could just rest spam. I love it.
5 - Kingdom management feels pretty meh.
6 - BG2 characters were meh, but PF:K has even worse chars.
7 - Forgotten realms is so much better than the PF setting... I am not saying Drizzt is the best character in the world, or Elminster, but compared to Amiri they surely shine.

All in all, BG series win. But PF:K is a great game, really funny to play, with decent story and I look forward to expansions and sequels.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
Too fantasy kitchen sink for me, although I did enjoy Janny Wurt's Cycle of Fire trilogy. She kept the spaceship thing to a bare minimum and only at the end of the trilogy, though.

It's not too kitchen sink for me, maybe dryer with a bunch of different clothes (ideas) being tumbled around. :) But in the way the game presents it, it fits IMO. Just the game, not the pen and paper stuff.

I played 30 hours of Kingmaker and really enjoyed it. I am however afraid that one day my kingdom will crumble and I’ll grt game over because of something stupid.

You can turn on Invincible Kingdom to avoid crumbling by bad kingdom management. Only way to lose then is if you don't do the main quests in time.

1 - BG series style of writing was light hearted. With "funny" chars all over the place. Friendly beholders and guys like Noober. PF:K has WarctaftIII style of graphic while trying to be more "serious". I prefer BG tbqh.
2 - Items description; every item of loot in BG had a lenghty description, even gems (gems descriptions, how they are used in spells, where they can be found were awesome!). Most of the magical items had a story and name instead of "longsword +1, +1 furious". PF:K really feels like random generated loot.
3 - Magic was central in BG2. While in PF:K, mages are more support chars. No epic liches/dragon/whatnot magic battles. Also less scrolls, less spells.
4 - PF:K rest/encumbrance system IS FAR superior to BG, where you could just rest spam. I love it.
5 - Kingdom management feels pretty meh.
6 - BG2 characters were meh, but PF:K has even worse chars.
7 - Forgotten realms is so much better than the PF setting... I am not saying Drizzt is the best character in the world, or Elminster, but compared to Amiri they surely shine.

All in all, BG series win. But PF:K is a great game, really funny to play, with decent story and I look forward to expansions and sequels.

1 - There are plenty of funny moments in P:K, though. I love the music that plays during those events, and I'd say it's a bit light-hearted itself, and somewhat similar in tone to BG. I can name several funny events that happen in Chapters 1 & 2 alone.

2 - Item descriptions in BG were amazing. Absolutely. P:K does have item descriptions, though, if you right click INFO and read, they usually have a sentence or two of lore. But I don't feel the loot is randomly generated in P:K at all, especially on my 2nd run where I see everything is mostly hand-placed.

3 - Less scrolls and spells, yes. Magic isn't quite the same as in BG, no real mage duels so far in my experience. But in terms of every spell being useful, P:K is amazing. Not nearly a useless spell that I've found yet, everything has some support purpose and can be used to effectiveness.

4 - Agreed, I just wish PF:K let you have banter, romance and dialogue triggers while resting on the main overworld map.

5 - Highly disagree. Kingdom management is pretty awesome to me, with all the choices you make, alignment, moral and otherwise. People visiting you, strange events happening, having to build and keep things under control; I love it. It could be better explained, though.

6 - I dunno, I like all the characters I've met in P:K so far. The companions are great and I liked Tartuk, Oleg, Kesten Garess, etc.. Not terrible by any means.

7 - Hey, I like Amiri! She's supposed to be a little, err...slow in the head. :) Elminster is cool, though. I like the P:K setting and it's close to FR to me, but let's keep in mind that FR is drilled into our heads from many games and even novels. P:K has one game under its belt right now, so it'd be fairer to compare how the sequel adds to the setting than right now with just one game.

It's close for me but I adore BG1 and like BG2 less but it's still cool. P:K is great and I look forward to expansions and sequels as well. Since P:K released I'm more likely to replay it than I am BG right now, due to the sheer amount of customization in 3.5e you can have.
 

Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Scandinavia
BG for simple reason of not being a bug version of a singularity.

Bitch please~ BG was full of bugs that require legions of fans to fix it after official devs giving up fixing~ Your reason is like comparing a fully mature, decades-fixing, product with a months-old game.
BG1 had "bugs" that were hardly noticeable and rarely had any impact. There were probably legions of smaller bugs, but most of them don't matter. Baldur's Gate had a persistent and enduring cold. Pathfinder: Kingmaker has full-blown AIDS.

Sure, they're both "bugs", but they're not on comparable levels at all.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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Searching for my kidnapped sister
Are there really people in here trying to argue logic in a DnD like setting?
Wow :lol:

We can argue logic in all things. Illogic is just a handwaving mechanism the amateur hacks use to hide their shit writings, something DnD subgenre are boasting a high number. When you hear "it's fantasy, no need to be logical" you know you have a shit writer in your hand.
 

thesheeep

Arcane
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Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Are there really people in here trying to argue logic in a DnD like setting?
Wow :lol:

We can argue logic in all things. Illogic is just a handwaving mechanism the amateur hacks use to hide their shit writings, something DnD subgenre are boasting a high number. When you hear "it's fantasy, no need to be logical" you know you have a shit writer in your hand.
You can argue logic in all things, but it doesn't make sense to argue logic in a setting that very obviously was never meant to be very logical in itself.

It's like critizising a racing game for not being a better RPG. It never tried to be, so the criticism rings empty.

That Pathfinder world was meant to be filled with "awesome things", not to depict or simulate a believable coherent "whole". In a way, it is a theme park, just less stupid than what Bethesda did in Fallout 3 & 4.
I can understand if someone doesn't like this fact, but to argue that they failed at writing a coherent world when that was never their goal is just silly.

Fantasy has nothing to do with it, if someone takes that as an excuse, that is indeed the sign of a shitty writer.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
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Messages
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Wrong!

You can accept "fantasy dont have to be logical".

It is (it can be logical), but you totally can accept that miserable condition.

You dont have to, but you can accept that shitty theory.

Just. Dont come crying to me about it, you miserable mindcontrolled wimp of a reader.

(DnD can be and is already quite logical. It is the limpwristed amateur hackwriters that dont or cant go into logic that deny it)
 
Last edited:

thesheeep

Arcane
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When you hear "it's fantasy, no need to be logical" you know you have a shit writer in your hand.
Fantasy has nothing to do with it, if someone takes that as an excuse, that is indeed the sign of a shitty writer.
You can accept "fantasy dont have to be logical".

It is, but you totally can accept that miserable condition.
giphy.gif
 

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
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fantasy have logic, each setting have his own logic.
A tipical example is magical laws.
it make sense that a chaotic mad god have no sense.
 

purpleblob

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Sydney
BG1 = Kingmaker.

Both > BG2.

BG2 is a convoluted, linear-ish mess. BG1 is a more organic, open adventure and Kingmaker is on par with it.

Sorry Fluent, have to disagree. Just because you dislike BG2 for some strange reason, it doesn't make it convoluted nor linear-ish mess. IIRC, you didn't even finish BG2.

I voted BG2, still much better and fun than Kingmaker.
 

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