Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

[Horvatii]

The RNG made him do it!

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says the guy crying about the imaginary rng, that is out to ruin him!
DEVS FUDGE ROLLS TO ANNOY MASTER LIBRARIAN
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[Master Librarian]

Cry moar

 

[Tigranes]

What, in fact, would be the KODEX KONSENSUS on best Viper build?

Dodge Berserk, Nimble, Dagger Mastery are surely a given, but I've been experimenting for the rest. With the current run, mr Viper is levelling up both melee and ranged defence every level for some serious Matrix dodging, and hell, I'm even thinking about Lone Wolf and Footwork so he runs bravely through enemy lines for that necromancer.

Also is every single map going to have the 3 Southern cities really far apart, or what

 

[Master Librarian]

Definitely Recover, in retrospect, it's a far better pick than Backstabber
Executioner + crippling is generally shit late game, but I've chosen an Orc crisis so I decided to include it, but then again, there's seldom any other perks that would make a big difference.
Overwhelm's nice when you consider 4 chained attacks, don't see why it wouldn't be a viable pick.

 

[vazha]

Backstabber is still a must unless you for some reason want to lonewolf him. Hell, you cant really go wrong with backstabber on anyone who does melee.

 

[Sweeper]

Cry moar

Crippling strikes is fucking useless.

 

[Master Librarian]

Crippling strikes is fucking useless.

Generally yes, but see:

Executioner + crippling is generally shit late game, but I've chosen an Orc crisis so I decided to include it, but then again, there's seldom any other perks that would make a big difference.

 

[Sweeper]

Generally yes, but see:

Gifted is better.
Rotation is better.
Brawny is good even on nimble builds.
Even colossus.
But I pretty much never not pick student so...

That said I haven't played the DLC so maybe I've got outdated views.

 

[Master Librarian]

Gifted is better.

Definitely not for a long-term, endgame character. Gifted is meant for disposable bros that are meant to carry you towards next stage in development.

Rotation is better.

Generally, again, yes, but I'm running a small group so it's highly situational and doesn't have the utility it would have in a much larger one.

Brawny is good even on nimble builds.

8+13 fatigue from his gear. That's 6.3 points extra from Brawny. Definitely not worth the perk.

Even colossus.

Extra 14 hp. Nothing spectacular.

 

[Sweeper]

Definitely not for a long-term, endgame character. Gifted is meant for disposable bros that are meant to carry you towards next stage in development.

Generally, again, yes, but I'm running a small group so it's highly situational and doesn't have the utility it would have in a much larger one.

8+13 fatigue from his gear. That's 6.3 points extra from Brawny. Definitely not worth the perk.

Extra 14 hp. Nothing spectacular.

Still better than crippling strikes though.

 

[Master Librarian]

Definitely not for a long-term, endgame character. Gifted is meant for disposable bros that are meant to carry you towards next stage in development.

Generally, again, yes, but I'm running a small group so it's highly situational and doesn't have the utility it would have in a much larger one.

8+13 fatigue from his gear. That's 6.3 points extra from Brawny. Definitely not worth the perk.

Extra 14 hp. Nothing spectacular.

Still better than crippling strikes though.

Well, no. And repeating it while ignoring all the included factors at hand doesn't do you any service lol
It's a good pick for a heavily offensive oriented dagger build, no point in watering it down because having 60 hp or 50hp is gonna one shot you anyway in some unlucky moment.
I mean, you're advising gifted for a "here to stay" type of bro, don't think you're fit to gauge anything here

 

[Sweeper]

Well, no. And repeating it while ignoring all the included factors at hand doesn't do you any service lol
It's a good pick for a heavily offensive oriented dagger build, no point in watering it down because having 60 hp or 50hp is gonna one shot you anyway in some unlucky moment.
I mean, you're advising gifted for a "here to stay" type of bro, don't think you're fit to gauge anything here

Read up on how injuries work, then read up on what crippling strike does, then get back to me.
Having more stats, even if it's a miniscule amount in the grand scheme of things, is still better than getting crippling strikes.

 

[Master Librarian]

Well, no. And repeating it while ignoring all the included factors at hand doesn't do you any service lol
It's a good pick for a heavily offensive oriented dagger build, no point in watering it down because having 60 hp or 50hp is gonna one shot you anyway in some unlucky moment.
I mean, you're advising gifted for a "here to stay" type of bro, don't think you're fit to gauge anything here

Read up on how injuries work, then read up on what crippling strike does, then get back to me.
Having more stats, even if it's a miniscule amount in the grand scheme of things, is still better than getting crippling strikes.

Right back at you. It allows the bro to one hit injure an orc warr, among other things. 3 extra stat points nowhere in hell outweight this.

I'd have taken relentless just to keep dodge up and for taking away the initiative malus of waiting, especially since he'd constantly be gassing himself stabbing and zooming around the battlefield - interacts well with overwhelm too, no?

You are correct, actually. That's a better alternative.

 

[Sweeper]

Right back at you. It allows the bro to one hit injure an orc warr, among other things. 3 extra stat points nowhere in hell outweight this.

Injuries aren't that useful dude.

 

[jungl]

crippling strikes ups the chance you deliver a heavy injury making the enemy useless. executioner kills shit faster. Both perks become more noticable late game fights.

 

[Master Librarian]

Right back at you. It allows the bro to one hit injure an orc warr, among other things. 3 extra stat points nowhere in hell outweight this.

Injuries aren't that useful dude.

Like I said, you gotta pair this up with executioner. You're right in that crippling strike alone ain't worth it. Although I'd still argue it would be better by itself even, than brawny or gifted on that dude.

 

[Baptismbyfire]

Damn... waiting for it to release on Switch, but the release was pushed to Q3, and don't know whether this expansion is included.

 

[Trash Player]

And on a personal basis, I'm curious as to why I have suspicions towards the system in this game, whereas I didn't bat an eye in any other : from Tactics Ogre and Baldurs Gate, to Darkest Dungeon and dozens upon dozens of other titles.

Did you play any of these games Ironman? Most of these are more forgiving by design, i.e. there are easy ways to recoup your loss, no irreversible consequences for fail state, simply no stakes.

It is not really about the dice. Players complaining about are not sure what they really MEAN and WANT. Developers who argue against or placate don't get the point at all.
It is about the stakes. A gambler who won 49 coinflips with a $1 stake but then lose a single coinflip with a $100 stake will complain about bad luck and injustice simply because it is a net loss.

BB has a lot of high variety sequences that cascade out of player's control from the same input, to both benefits and detriments. To-hit. Morale check. Damage roll. Injuries. Head/Body hits. Etc.
Character building compounds this further. The whole stars and stat rolls aside, a lot of perks exaggerate the above problems. Sure there are also ways to improve the odds but ultimately it is still dice dependant.
Losing valuable troops in BB is very punishing to both progress and player mentality. It takes hours to find keepers and level them up. Players are also understandably invested in the process.
It matters not how many triumphs one got through, they die then they are gone.

tl;dr: By design, BB is simply a very dicey game with very punishing fail states. What dice is used matters not.

No, I'm pretty sure it ain't that. Hell, when I was learning the ins and outs of the game in beginner, I'd often savescum just because I was highly interested in seeing a particular content and not being fucked over by an RNG while doing so. And even then, some situations would still raise a brow. But this is really ramped up to the extreme in Ironman expert runs, to the point I'm 90% sure I'll miss a 70-75%+ roll. Not because I'm under some delusion of "B-B-B-B-BUT IT MUST HAPPEN, CHANCE IS OVER 50%", but rather, you keep noticing these streaks all the time, especially with sword lance, where again, I can't count the times I've missed all three enemies with a reap, simultaneously, with roughly 70% hit chance each. In rows.

Notice the anecdotes we have here.
"Unfavorable streaks of fortune are more noticeable in higher difficulty with no failsafe mechanism". Bad luck factors more in a more hostile condition, so it becomes more noticeable to the player.
"Unfavorable streaks of fortune are more noticeable in high variety options". Isn't it what you signed up for? Reaping isn't worth the cost unless it hit 2 combatants. Of course, it feels terrible with a full whiff. If this happens a few times in a single play session, even more so.
However, this case has 2.7% to happen, which is a bit less than rolling a pair of snake eyes, that is about 2.78%. And one pair of snake eyes comes up all the time.

Would you even notice how your troops score 10 head hit without bonus in a row against trivial brigands? It is an astronomically favorable outcome, yet utterly irrelevant and unnoticeable by players because the brigands are harmless and would have been cleaved apart by one body hit anyway.

One would, however, rage against heaven, if 4 60% hit miss consecutively in a critical fight, losing a valuable troop as a result. Yet, it is 2.56% for this to happen, which isn't unthinkable at all.

Adding in what I have stated in the previous post, it is understandably how players feel the way you feel. BB is not a game where optimal play gives guaranteed reward.

tl;dr: I am not commenting on you having gambler's fallacy. I argue that the game bring out the worst confirmation bias and survivorship bias from players by design due to volatile gameplay and fragility of progression.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

X-com for example rigged the RNG in favor of the player.

You mean 2012 title XCOM.
UFO: Enemy Unknown has even more wide variation in dice results than BB, but on the other hand losses are way easier to replace.

 

[Sarissofoi]

X-com for example rigged the RNG in favor of the player.

You mean 2012 title XCOM.
UFO: Enemy Unknown has even more wide variation in dice results than BB, but on the other hand losses are way easier to replace.

TBH that is the bigger problem than RNG.
That discord between:
>suppose to play ironeme and lose troops
and
>losses hard to replace even if you have cash and spare equipment
You could beat UFO with starting equipment and rookies if you have skill and explosives.
Here not so much.

 

[Lyre Mors]

Which is exactly why I find this game to be much more fun not playing Ironman. Just reloads on party wipes or game-enders.

Seriously hardly ever get to see some of the best (mid-game) content on Ironman because you're too busy losing brothers, buying more, and falling into an endless cycle of catch-up.

 

[hivemind]

What, in fact, would be the KODEX KONSENSUS on best Viper build?

http://www.bbplanner.xyz/?perks=hkAQBAim&stats=001041102040105066059020003&stars=12002200

Is what I have now.

It's basically an early/mid game tempo build that like can carry you alone for the first 40 days and then he gets relegated to like knight shanker position.

Biggest mistakes I'm feeling right now is lack of underdog, it kinda cripples his usability in hard midgame to proper late game encounters. You are extremely vulnerable to surround and getting killed if you want to truly make use of his point streak and keep advancing.

Overwhelm is mandatory I think due to how strong it is in arena and for getting the named barbarian cleaver as soon as possible so that your main carry position can transition from Viper to Lion.

Nimble is a tempo perk and I think worth it but you just lose frontline capability lategame.

In my next run(or if I get oblivion pot lmao) I will do this build. I think it has the potential to be overall the strongest and most balanced Viper build.

http://www.bbplanner.xyz/?perks=hgAQBgqi&stats=001041102040105066059020003&stars=12002200

Giving up dodge for underdog is better in the vast majority of situations that matter since in low enemy number situations you are unhitable through overwhelm anyhow.

So the only question is duelist vs polearm mastery. Duelist technically makes non dagger weapons usable without mastery for stuff like cleavers vs ud but I think it still ends up being worse than polearm mastery due to potential for reaping like ten millions times per turn, not to mention that the fatigue economy on duelist non mastery weapons is kinda yikes.

Also given that you are not running battle forged and you only have 12 people in your company you are I think better off in the backline in high number fights where you have no priority shank targets.

I would maybe consider duelist to have higher prio against polearm mastery if you get your hands on some extremely good named qatal early on but even then it's like more limiting than going polearm.

 

[hivemind]

levelling up both melee and ranged defence every level for some serious Matrix dodging, and hell, I'm even thinking about Lone Wolf and Footwork so he runs bravely through enemy lines for that necromancer.

also pls never do this, it literally hurt to read

 

[Geckabor]

What is the consensus on steel brow?

Also, how often or when do people level up resolve on their bros? I feel like it might be an underused stat, especially due to the fact that the difference between having a confident bro and a wavering one is a difference of 20% to most combat stats.

 

[Murk]

What is the consensus on steel brow?

Also, how often or when do people level up resolve on their bros? I feel like it might be an underused stat, especially due to the fact that the difference between having a confident bro and a wavering one is a difference of 20% to most combat stats.

I never take steel brow, but will periodically take resolve when it's a high roll and my other preferred stats (attack/fatigue/melee defense) are low rolls; or if I got a very good deserter for example.