Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

[Serus]

I lost one of my best brothers to lindwurms. But i don't completely understand why. When he was fighting lindwurms the last time he was allright. Lindwurms should have 5% chance to hit him when shieldwall was raised (66, and ~90). But the head had 17%! And tail 12% iirc. And the that was before he lost morale due to being hit. Never had that. Do lindwurms have some hidden perks? The only thing i can think of is that he was surrounded by unusual number of linduwurm... parts. Do lindwurms have backstabber?

 

[Brancaleone]

I lost one of my best brothers to lindwurms. But i don't completely understand why. When he was fighting lindwurms the last time he was allright. Lindwurms should have 5% chance to hit him when shieldwall was raised (66, and ~90). But the head had 17%! And tail 12% iirc. And the that was before he lost morale due to being hit. Never had that. Do lindwurms have some hidden perks? The only thing i can think of is that he was surrounded by unusual number of linduwurm... parts. Do lindwurms have backstabber?

Lindwurms afaik don't have backstabber. Maybe it was just the standard surround bonus?

 

[Harthwain]

When he was fighting lindwurms the last time he was allright. Lindwurms should have 5% chance to hit him when shieldwall was raised (66, and ~90). But the head had 17%! And tail 12% iirc. And the that was before he lost morale due to being hit. Never had that. Do lindwurms have some hidden perks? The only thing i can think of is that he was surrounded by unusual number of linduwurm... parts. Do lindwurms have backstabber?

They seem to get a bonus to melee attack after 170-180 days:

Lindwurm: Has +10 and does 10% more after day 170
Tail: Has +10 and does 10% more after day 180

 

[Serus]

Thanks, that might be it, i'm now at 180 and he died sometimes in the 170s and the first battle was way earlier. That would explain it. Oh well, apparently Lindwurms adapt to human tactics. I didn't know any "monster" stats scale. I thought only numbers and compositions of groups. I don't like it - from design perspective, i already mourned my tank. But that means you need more def on a tank to stand up to those beast. You need the "5%" because they hit like trucks. A tank can take a hit or three but no more. Damn, mine wasn't bad, he had 40def at level 11 and over 120 health with nimble. Granted he used a standard 20 def shield but that's the best there other than famed ones.

Any other good methods to fight Lindwurms? Other than finding a recruit with over 10def and 3stars and a good famed shield.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Any other good methods to fight Lindwurms?

Hide behind allied noble house/city state troops and try to kill steal.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Meh, I am fucking done with this shit. Playing on the hardest difficulty settings is just retarded in this game. Expert/Expert/Ironman/Hidden Map/Low Starting Resources.

Some games are designed to be played at highest difficulty settings, this one was not, imo. I mean sure, you have people playing it for thousands of hours, so you can get a lucky run at some point and get through to the later stages, but for most runs, if you just play normally, without save-scumming, without number crunching and autism, it is fucking impossible. Some fucking RNG always gets you, whether its a shitty map, shitty contracts, shitty battle rolls, shitty spawn rolls.

This shit is just hilarious, every run I try some crazy shit happens. And it happens in ways that almost seem sadistic by the devs. For example, why is it whenever I am desperate and take a long caravan contract, nothing ever happens in the first few days of the route, but always some insanely powerful enemy spawns and attacks on the last leg, when I already spent several days worth of pay on my men.

Or like the fucking waves of enemies. Fuck that's so annoying. The dev retards know that on these difficulties and with their RNG, it is impossible to get out of a battle unscathed. So why am I always dealing with a 2nd group attacking me after I defeat the first? And some of them you can't even escape due to dumbass travel AI or the way some of them have ridiculous action points (e.g. wolf riders, dire wolves, etc).

Also the fucking contract algorithm is pure sadism. They see I have a 6 man unit of level 1/2s. Why the fuck are there 3 skull contracts all over the place? Fuck it, I beat it on Veteran/Ironman, now

 

[Jrpgfan]

If you're complaining about goblin wolfriders, wait until you face shamans with root and insect swarm. That's hands down the most annoying enemy in the game.

Contrary to most BB players, I've never had much trouble with goblins, except when there's a shaman in their team. One single shaman completely changes the game and my strats against those little green fuckers.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I don't have a problem with goblins. I have a problem with the goblins when they are riding wolves (with 3 armor bypassing attacks per round across the screen mobility), and attack me as 15 while I have 12, and attack me right after I won a battle against the previous 9 of them and have injuries and shit, and attack me as part of caravan, so I can't avoid or see what the fuck is attacking me, and then lock me down so I can't escape.

 

[Jrpgfan]

You shouldn't take caravan contracts if your guys can't handle a few wolfriders. It's risky exactly because you can't avoid fights. Although, there's always the option to flee before the fight and fail the contract. You'll lose the money and reputation but your bros will live to see another day. Knowing what contracts to take and when to take them is part of the game too.

By the way, I hope you realize you're complaining about low level parties. Skilled players beat those consistently. It seems to me it's more a problem of lack of game knowledge than RNG or whatever, which is fine. It's a game with a steep learning curve after all, no shame in admiting you're just not good enough yet.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

You can't even read what I am writing bre, 15 goblin wolf riders after 9 goblin wolf riders is not "a few". And they are not a low level party, I got wiped by them after day 100... Please pay attention.

 

[Harthwain]

Meh, I am fucking done with this shit. Playing on the hardest difficulty settings is just retarded in this game. Expert/Expert/Ironman/Hidden Map/Low Starting Resources.

I don't see much point in playing on expert economical difficulty and with low starting resources. Its only function is to increase the grind, making it much harder to keep your head above the water. It's extra challenge, sure, but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone, unless they want to be really hardcore. Expert combat/enemies makes enemies more challenging, which is a solid reason to take that difficulty increase. Hidden map is nice for exploring the map, although this makes it harder to decide when to pick the Pathfinder perk (it's much better on maps with a lot of rough terrain).

 

[LizardWizard]

You can't even read what I am writing bre, 15 goblin wolf riders after 9 goblin wolf riders is not "a few". And they are not a low level party, I got wiped by them after day 100... Please pay attention.

Gobbos have shit morale, you should be routing them with your 2h/duelist front liners in the first couple of engagements. Especially at turn 100

 

[Darth Canoli]

On expert day 107 you should have a some level 11+‘s and all your main bros over level 7. I posted a few pages back some tips for the strategic layer, which it sounds like you need—don’t rely on contracts, go hunting camps asap, chase down bandits around towns with ambushed trade routes, etc. I would say by day 100, 95% of the battles I fight are not contracts.

edit- I’m not saying you’re playing wrong btw, I think part of the fun is struggling before you realize how to optimize everything—I’m just saying if you’ve got max level 4-5 bros on day 107, you’re playing very sub-optimally and that’s why you’re getting fucked by RNG.

How would that help? Most wilderness camps seem even harder that the contract ones, and wandering around wilderness saps food and money which you will get back less of without a contract.

You can't even read what I am writing bre, 15 goblin wolf riders after 9 goblin wolf riders is not "a few". And they are not a low level party, I got wiped by them after day 100... Please pay attention.

Battle Brothers is the kind of game you should start on normal, die and then roll-back to easy combat settings until you know what you're doing, then you play on normal again and when you had a couple of succesful runs completing at least the first crisis and having fought almost everything, you can think of switching to expert.

And when expert difficulty isn't a problem anymore, you can try legendary (legends mod feature) but you shouldn't.

Knowledge gives you insight on:
- Who to fight and when to fight them
- Strategies to fight different enemies
- Team building
- Making money

It makes all the difference, although, for the money, it's best to stay on easy economic settings/high funds unless you go for a trade heavy run.

Last but not least, on expert, i get level 11 bros on day 50+
Difficulty scales with your party size and days passing so don't recruit too much too fast.
After day 80, you should only recruit very slowly and/or expensive (good backgrounds) and higher level bros.

Forgot about equipment, upgrading it every chance you get should be a priority, meaning buying cheap armors and trying to get higher quality weapons as soon as possible, war crisis helps a lot for this as it'll make you rich and get you the best loot, or a raider start, preying on one faction.

...

Besides Turn it in and legends, Power of magic is the best mod for BB (vanilla version is going to be updated, legends works).

 

[Jrpgfan]

You can't even read what I am writing bre, 15 goblin wolf riders after 9 goblin wolf riders is not "a few". And they are not a low level party, I got wiped by them after day 100... Please pay attention.

I've already faced a party with 44 goblins, with atleast half that of wolfriders(there were no shamans and overseers). I wiped it easily. After the second or third kill with my 2 handers, they all went on fleeing. Like the user above said, they have low morale, and they're squishy. It's almost always a 1hit-1 kill with a 2 hander if you manage to hit them, and once you do it's very likely atleast a few are gonna flee. Again, with good enough bros and knowledge on what to do and when to tackle what, parties with low to mid level mobs like that are not that challenging. For skilled players it only gets really challenging when you face high level mobs like shamans, overseers, orc warlords, barbarian chosens etc... Complaining about RNG when facing weak stuff like 15 wolfriders with a 12 man party on day 100 doesn't make a strong case.

 

[Serus]

I mean sure, you have people playing it for thousands of hours, so you can get a lucky run at some point and get through to the later stages, but for most runs, if you just play normally, without save-scumming, without number crunching and autism, it is fucking impossible. Some fucking RNG always gets you, whether its a shitty map, shitty contracts, shitty battle rolls, shitty spawn rolls.

No Porky, just no. N - O. As in "no", you are incorrect. You are like those people i met on roguelike forums who says similar thing. When told and shown* that there are players who can win several consecutive runs, they just don't accept reality. It definitely is possible. The one moment where rng in BB is so strong that it can sometimes overwhelm a good and attentive player (mind you - not necessarily myself) is at the very beginning. BTW, the underlining is important. Certainly no need to wait for a "lucky run at some point". Hell, you can see me how i went to expert (from veteran first!) during the last few pages of this thread. Did it require thousands of hours? And i am not the most lucky or the most autistic and certainly not the most skilled player of BB.
However what you DO NEED is to know the game. Expert/Expert/IM is for people who mastered the game, not ones who learn it as they go. Not to mention expert economy is masochistic. You also need to be able to learn from your own mistakes and/or others instead of blaming everything but yourself. You simply DO NOT meet those two crucial requirements. End result is frustration and uninformed opinions.

*In DCSS there is(was?) an option to play online, it even recorded the results for everyone to see. Still people telling that it is all RNG and luck based popped up sometime. Sounds familiar to you? There are other rl games i know, the same happens there.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

"after playing dis game for thousands of hours and doing all the under the hood calculations on graphing paper, i can pretend i git gud and show off to morons who just play it like a ... game... trololol"



P.S. Seems like most of you play on less than Expert economic difficulty, and some on premade "perfect" maps. So why are you arguing with me when i am playing on actual "hardest" settings (expert/expert/ironman/low starting/random map/hiddden map)?

 

[Strange Fellow]

Because playing on difficulty levels that are suited to our ability and familiarity with the game is fun, and your way clearly isn't.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Because playing on difficulty levels that are suited to our ability and familiarity with the game is fun, and your way clearly isn't.

And your tolerance to grind for the economic diff grindiculty.

It's not just a question of ability, it's a question of having fun, for me, expert combat + beginner economic is the fun way to play battle brothers but i can see porky is the kind who wants to play on higher difficulty possible to brag about it rather than enjoying the hardships it induces.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Well, I already played it through on lower difficulties, so just wanted to do it on highest as well. Alas, it is not to be.

 

[Harthwain]

The one moment where rng in BB is so strong that it can sometimes overwhelm a good and attentive player (mind you - not necessarily myself) is at the very beginning.

I have seen experienced coaches wrecked by a string of unlucky rolls. Experienced teams can make rolls more manageable, but you can't do much when you roll critical failures at worst possible moments.

P.S. Seems like most of you play on less than Expert economic difficulty, and some on premade "perfect" maps. So why are you arguing with me when i am playing on actual "hardest" settings (expert/expert/ironman/low starting/random map/hiddden map)?

Not sure what you're asking here. Playing on non-expert economic difficulty makes it easier to recover after taking some losses, it doesn't change the supposedly broken RNG.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

P.S. Seems like most of you play on less than Expert economic difficulty, and some on premade "perfect" maps. So why are you arguing with me when i am playing on actual "hardest" settings (expert/expert/ironman/low starting/random map/hiddden map)?

Not sure what you're asking here. Playing on non-expert economic difficulty makes it easier to recover after taking some losses, it doesn't change the supposedly broken RNG.

Economic difficulty setting massively affects the difficulty of the entire game. When you are always low on money, you can't outfit your guys with good equipment, so they are more likely to take injuries/die, you can't recruit the best bros, you have to take on desperate contracts because otherwise people start deserting, etc.

 

[Kaivokz]

Economic difficulty setting massively affects the difficulty of the entire game. When you are always low on money, you can't outfit your guys with good equipment, so they are more likely to take injuries/die, you can't recruit the best bros, you have to take on desperate contracts because otherwise people start deserting, etc.

Your two main complaints weren’t this, though.
They were:
(1) RNG went on pre-determined swings against you.
(2) You can’t avoid multiple ambushes on escort missions.

I have done runs on expert/expert, but it really does just become a hassle—it is still 100% possible to have a fully geared company, but to do so you need to play way more carefully on the strategy map and pick the most economical option all the time for the first 50 days or so. It just makes things slower without making the combat harder (and early on you should only really be buying cheap helmets for your first recruits—it costs nothing to get outfitted in full raiders gear, and you can save up for one or two nice chest or helm pieces).

Also use tavern rumors and have a notepad nearby to write them down on—if you hear about a famed item, you should make it a priority in your future plans. In my last run I heard about two famed items early on, one guarded by many necrosavants (I did not get that one early) and another just guarded by some raiders holding a 300 durability helm—snag some 210 footman armor from a bandit leader and you’ve got yourself a viable early game battle forged bro.

On a side note, earlier in this thread I posted almost the exact same story as you about the caravan—got ambushed by things repeatedly, including some alps—but my conclusion was, “Well I’m never taking escort missions at that point in my company’s career.” Not, “let’s try it again!”

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

On a side note, earlier in this thread I posted almost the exact same story as you about the caravan—got ambushed by things repeatedly, including some alps—but my conclusion was, “Well I’m never taking escort missions at that point in my company’s career.” Not, “let’s try it again!”

I also said I am never taking escort missions again, except on Expert/Expert, you don't really have a choice, cause the money runs out, and the escort missions are the only ones available... That's the thing, the only realiably safe early enemy contract is that "bandit thugs stole my statuette" one. Even those can wreck your crew on Expert, but most times you can defeat them without too much trouble. Everything else can be deadly depending on RNG to an early group, nachos, raiders, webknechts, escorts, etc. So when you are constantly running out of gold on Expert economic difficulty, you HAVE to take some of those risky missions, and then it's up to the RNG gods.

I don't really get what you guys are arguing with me about. I said the absolute hardest difficlty settings are not feasible for regular gameplay, all of you argue, NO, NO that's not the case, but then it turns out none of you play on them anyway. So... you agree with me.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I did successful runs on expert expert, even on expert economy and legendary combat difficulty, it just adds to the grinds and slows thing down as said by Kaivokz.
Well, legendary difficulty goes farther, it aborted 2 Legends custom lonewolf runs (one crusader and one berserker, i was overconfident with the latter, it was my first legendary run) because even early monsters are extremely strong with their new perks.

But expert economy is nothing special, just tediously grindy, you save expensive things for the one time where you find a settlement with a seasonal fair or ambushed trade routes and you sell regular loot after each fight because inventory spots are even more important, just more busy work.

About the RNG fucking you over, that's another urban legend.

If you know your enemies and take advantage of the terrain and your army strength, RNG can't do anything to stop you but if you think your favorite bro is superman and take too many risks, RNG will find a way to fuck you over...

 

[Serus]

The one moment where rng in BB is so strong that it can sometimes overwhelm a good and attentive player (mind you - not necessarily myself) is at the very beginning.

I have seen experienced coaches wrecked by a string of unlucky rolls. Experienced teams can make rolls more manageable, but you can't do much when you roll critical failures at worst possible moments.

Wait, what teams and coaches? We are still talking Battle Brothers, right?

Yes, in a way you can do much. How do YOU think people do several consecutive runs in roguelikes? Games with perma death AND rng AND no "team" - which makes it way worse than BB? I'll tell you - they minimise the risk. You are right that sooner or later random numbers will be against you. It is inevitable. So you play so that even when this inevitably happen, it isn't fatal. In a manner of speaking there shouldn't be any "worst moments" at all. In BB the main way to achieve this, is not tactics but the strategic map. You do not fight if you do not know that you'll (easily) win. Or you are prepared to take losses. It is actually easier in BB because there is no single life that loses the game (except in Lone Wolf start). It is harder at the very beginning because you have little choice or options. In addition very early your bros might die from just 2 or 3 bad rolls in a row. That can happen easily and semi often so is impossible to counter*. But when they can virtually always survive a couple of hits, you just don't have to place them in a situation where they need to take even more. And yes, very extreme cases happen but there comes the reason why BB is in a way easier - one or even two bros of 16+ dies in such extreme case and you move on.

In my expert game most of the brothers i lost (past early game) was because of:
a) lack of knowledge about an aspect of a game - the lindwurms vs my tank situation or the auto-retreat that i posted are exemples. I suspect that's one of the problems with Porky, except more often and in more basic situations.
b) me not considering all options - i could have saved a bros using a net or a smoke pot (that i always have on my bannerman) or in other ways but i was too lazy or inattentive to do it so i just let the game play hoping: "he'll live, he still can take a hit, enemy won't hit two difficult rolls in a row"
c) i simply was a bad at tactics and I caused the situation myself, situation where a string of bad rolls happened and where it was possible to happen at all
d) i choose a fight that was too risky for my company in the first place
Most of those deaths could have been avoided. Exception are some of the early deaths and some of the low level bros in late game deaths.
There were also some premature ends to a campaign very early, and one or two slightly later. I posted some. Cases a) , b) or d).

In short: I sucked. Not rng or game being against me, but it was me = sucking. Hopefully i suck a little less now.

Someone better than me wouldn't even take those loses or setbacks. I saw on youtube a guy who played tactics considering almost every move like it was chess, including the risk of each move basically**. And you know what? He complained that the game (on expert/im) poses no challenge past very early game (where it's rng related of curse) anymore. And i believe him.


*except using decoy/sacrifice bros that is but it is not perfect either.
**i suppose some people on Codex would call him "autistic".