Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

[Serus]

it shouldn't be controversial
there's something busted about how BB generates "random", it's all in streaks

most visibly, undeniably and uncontroversially in how it generates shop inventories, overworld mooks and new hires - whatever result it gets, it repeats, everywhere

1. SOME people have reported seeing this. I, for example, have many hundreds of hours of BB and never witnessed it. Talk about "non-controversial" all you want. I'm yet to see any solid proof.

2. Supposedly "busted" generation of backgrounds, inventories (never heard this one) or world encounters, even if true is NOT what we talked here about. We talked about rng in COMBAT. There may or may not be a problem with rng used in some circumstances and not in others or it can be be a problem everywhere. The point is, we do not know. All we have are suppositions and things observed by some players and not by many others. I'm yet to see a single solid evidence - and i'm not the only one. I know, such a complex concept as evidence, i'm so ashamed to even bring it here.

3. The issue with our esteemed colleague, you-know-who, and the main point of content was not even the problem with RNG per se. Perhaps there is or there isn't one. I only have problem with claims without any solid evidence given. If there is something botched in the RNG then it is, just give me proof, i'm an old fashioned man. Since it doesn't affect my game much in any significant way (a background doesn't appear for some time and then there are several at once - in some games - big deal.) I don't care much. I wouldn't even notice - i still didn't - the supposed "problem" without this great and prestigious forum.
However his claim that there are problems with rng and that it is specifically BIASED AGAINST THE PLAYER is is the ridiculous one and most contested one. Or do you claim that this one is also "non controversial"?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The lady doth protest too much...

 

[Salvo]

Bought The Witch Hunter to gift to a friend for his birthday

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

So ... I give you the most fun and possibly the most underrated build/background in Battle Brothers:

This scary beast is the ... lore friendly Swordmaster. Duelist, Nimble, Relentless, Dodge, Sword Mastery (duh), High Resolve, Heavy Browed, Colossus, Footwork, Gifted.

Using the uber-fun fencing sword, Sallet helmet, Lamellar armor with dire wolf cape attachment, and Alp amulet.

At level 11, 95 melee attack (no stars), 56 melee defense (2 stars), 11 ranged defense ( ), 63 health, 66 Resolve, and 103 Initiative with all equipment on. From dodge, he gets another ~15 melee and ranged defense at start, down to ~10 at fully accumulated fatigue. So at his worst, 66 melee defense and 21 ranged defense.

With off-hand free, +25% melee damage, and from Duelist, 45% damage goes past armor. With Lunge ability from fencing sword, can attack from 2 tiles away, so he usually gets 2 hits during every round.

So why is this build so underrated by many? Because of 2 reasons, imho:

1. You need to select a good starting swordmaster. I had to throw away 2 candidates before finding this one, because their starting stats sucked. And that's expensive, since each one costs ~5-6k gold. But hey, if you want to have fun, you gotta pay. You want to find one with both a good starting melee defense (trait like sure footing is perfect) and also at least 2 stars in it. This is your key stat. Melee attack is always great on these guys, they always start at like 72-74, so you will be near 100 by the end even without stars. Also try to get Initiative with stars if possible, this is your second key stat due to Dodge.

2. This build requires more micromanagement and has more nuance than "simple" builds like footmen, knights, crossbowmen/archers and pikemen. As the swordmaster description says in the game, king of melee combat, but vulnerable to ranged attacks. So you can't use them as frontliners. Keep them in the back to the side, and unleash on the flanks once melee combat unfolds, away from archer volleys. Flanks are perfect for them, since you don't want them surrounded (with my build, I couldn't fit in Underdog perk).

So why is this build so good? Basically, they are a human can-opener. You know how most melee takes a while against heavily armored foes, as they whittle away their armor? Yeah, you can use warhammers to speed it up, but I mean, that's not cool at all. Well, this guy, he hits with enough damage through the armor that he immediately does heavy damage + disabling injuries + morale damage (especially with the dire wolf cloak), all the while being practically unhittable in melee combat. In Noble War, most enemy billmen would attack my footmen with shields and high defense instead of even trying this dude. And if he does occasionally get hit (the dreaded 5% chance), he's got deceptively high armor (120 head + 110 body) for an agility build AND nimble for minimum damage. Beware the old guy with dancing sword...

 

[rojay]

Dude, you like swords a lot and you built a duelist. Welcome to Battle Brothers?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Dude, you like swords a lot and you built a duelist. Welcome to Battle Brothers?

Mind explaining that to the guy who has only Northern barbarians in his company?

 

[k0syak]

Dude, you like swords a lot and you built a duelist. Welcome to Battle Brothers?

Mind explaining that to the guy who has only Northern barbarians in his company?

SWORD SMALL = BAD
AXE BIG = GOOD

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Dude, you like swords a lot and you built a duelist. Welcome to Battle Brothers?

Mind explaining that to the guy who has only Northern barbarians in his company?

SWORD SMALL = BAD
AXE BIG = GOOD

I already knew that.

 

[rojay]

The two phrases I wrote were not intended to be linked by logic, they were my observations about the massive wall of text written by the poster. I did not make that clear. Swords have been nerfed, but they're still viable as weapons and mid-game I use noble swords and arming swords as secondary weapons for archers/throwers if that's what I've got. I also like to have at least one two-hander, because I am nostalgic I guess. Then the poster built a pretty sweet duelist, which is an effective build.

 

[k0syak]

The two phrases I wrote were not intended to be linked by logic, they were my observations about the massive wall of text written by the poster. I did not make that clear. Swords have been nerfed, but they're still viable as weapons and mid-game I use noble swords and arming swords as secondary weapons for archers/throwers if that's what I've got. I also like to have at least one two-hander, because I am nostalgic I guess. Then the poster built a pretty sweet duelist, which is an effective build.

Nah, sword duelists suck. Mace/hammer/cleaver/qatal/axe is where it's at.

 

[BanEvader]

Welp I did it. I finally bought Battle Brothers after spending dozens of hours on my pirated version...
I saw it on sale and I was like "eh, it's a really good game, skillful game development should be rewarded."
Then I found out they were German.
I... I gave my shekels to ze Germans.
I gave them to ze fucking Germans.

 

[vazha]

Swordmaster theorycrafting

Anything not having underdog has no business being in melee. Pass.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The two phrases I wrote were not intended to be linked by logic, they were my observations about the massive wall of text written by the poster. I did not make that clear. Swords have been nerfed, but they're still viable as weapons and mid-game I use noble swords and arming swords as secondary weapons for archers/throwers if that's what I've got. I also like to have at least one two-hander, because I am nostalgic I guess. Then the poster built a pretty sweet duelist, which is an effective build.

Nah, sword duelists suck. Mace/hammer/cleaver/qatal/axe is where it's at.

You know what they call a mace/hammer duelist? Carpenter.

Swordmaster theorycrafting

Anything not having underdog has no business being in melee. Pass.

I really wanted to get Underdog on him, but the thing is, this Swordmaster/Duelist build has so many needed perks that you have to make some tough decisions and leave something out. I chose to leave out Underdog because I use him more as a flank fighter, not as a tank, and with his amazing mobility (Lunge, Footwork), he should generally be able to maneuver his way out of being surrounded, and with his insane melee defense, most enemies ignore him anyway. So Underdog on this particular guy seemed less valuable than the perks I got.

 

[rojay]

The two phrases I wrote were not intended to be linked by logic, they were my observations about the massive wall of text written by the poster. I did not make that clear. Swords have been nerfed, but they're still viable as weapons and mid-game I use noble swords and arming swords as secondary weapons for archers/throwers if that's what I've got. I also like to have at least one two-hander, because I am nostalgic I guess. Then the poster built a pretty sweet duelist, which is an effective build.

Nah, sword duelists suck. Mace/hammer/cleaver/qatal/axe is where it's at.

Dueling sword duelist is awesome. You need to find the right candidate, but the few times I have they've been pretty sweet. I've gone duelist with mace and axe and those are great too, but nothing compared to my dueling sword dudes. When you lunge at something knowing you're going to kill it in one shot and then get another attack from berserk it's neat.

Edit: qatal duelist is also great for some very specific things.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Well, I just got ROYALLY F-U-C-K-E-D in my campaign...

Was wrecking the large noble house, army after army after army, when I got this contract to take this asshole to his home village (which belonged to the enemy House). As I am going there, suddently around a bend in the road and the forest around the village, appears a FUCKING enemy army with 26 dudes (a knight, a bannerman, several sergeants, tons of footmen, billmen, etc) and initiates the attack before I even have a chance to shit myself. As if that wasn't bad enough, the battle map is a fucking forest, and my dudes are surrounded on all sides. So I can't even retreat. 12 against high end 26 enemies. I figure I'll use choke-points to even the odds, but these forest maps are so hard to read and move on (with extra AP spent on movement), it becomes a royal clusterfuck. RNG of course continues to fuck me, as the first 2 rounds of combat, the enemy fucks just CANNOT miss. Against my dudes who all have 40+ melee defense, in some cases 60+, they just cannot miss.

Anyways, at some point I realize I am fucked, but I see a couple of crossbowmen and a sellsword and another dude winning on one side of the map (the only place where they were), so I figure I will try to save them at least. Managed to get them to retreat. So by saving them, I keep all of my crossbowmen intact, and my sergeant was healing in camp, so I managed to save quite a few a dudes, but still, lost 8 prime killers.

 

[Alienman]

Forests have been the death of so many companies of mine.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Aboot 40 bucks American for base game and all DLC. Looking for 100 plus hours of content. Worth it?

 

[BanEvader]

Aboot 40 bucks American for base game and all DLC. Looking for 100 plus hours of content. Worth it?

A single playthrough could take 100s of hours, theoretically. Then there's the dozen or so company origins that can alter the way you play the game pretty heavily (early to mid game) which might mean new playthroughs. Or you might play the game for 10 hours and decide you don't like it.
Pirate it, like it? Buy it.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Yeah, it's the kind of game where if it appeals to you, you can EASILY put in thousands of hours. One single campaign can take more time than entire other games. And then you will get inevitably fucked at some point and start a new campaign. This will repeat many times, making you into a more jaded person with less hair. But it's still damn fun.

 

[Brancaleone]

So why is this build so underrated by many?

Because it's a crappy build that only sort of 'works' because it has an exceptional Swordmaster as a base. But again, even the dumbest melee build will sort of 'work' with 95 attack and 66 defense.

The main point of pumping Initiative is not, as you say, for dodge (that extra amount of defense is negligible): it's in order to get the extra damage when you Lunge. You got a background that starts with a heavy penalty to Initiative and Fatigue, and that is going to get the Old trait, which means a further heavy penalty to Initiative and Fatigue. Once your Old Swordmaster has 95 starting Initiative, he will be 6 Initiative away from lunging with a penalty to damage, which will quickly become heavier and heavier, since between Lunge and Footwork this is a Fatigue-intensive build, without the stats to support it. So you are left to slash away with a not very good sword that has its main advantage turned into a disadvantage.

 

[Eyestabber]

And the moral of the story is:

- forest fights are bad, they've always been bad and the community is made up of retards who fail to point that out, which means they will always be bad.
- Swordmasters are also fucking bad. Check the spreedsheets, WORSE stats-for-the-gold ratio. Go Hedge Knight/Oathtaker/Anatomist or go for a cheap background.
- Sword duelists just need so many fucking stats, at that point ANYTHING would "work".

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Sword duelists just need so many fucking stats, at that point ANYTHING would "work".

So if you get it to work, that means the rng is on your side?

 

[Serus]

PorkyThePaladin​

You know what they call a mace/hammer duelist? Carpenter.

That was funny. I also like duelist with the proper sword more. If nothing else then for variety reason. Of curse if i find a great one handed named weapon that would be wasted on a tank i consider making a "carpenter".

Eyestabber​

And the moral of the story is:

- forest fights are bad, they've always been bad and the community is made up of retards who fail to point that out, which means they will always be bad.

The moral of the story is - if there is any at all - that either the interface/visibility in forest maps don't work that well or, as the saying goes: "A bad carpenter always blames his tools".

Fellow Codexer Battle Bros, if you want to criticise then do so, there is plenty to criticise. However combat is the best part in this game. The problems are with everything else, except maybe general atmosphere. All the things that are mediocre or even outright bad. They were mentioned and discussed many times before in this thread too.

 

[Harthwain]

- forest fights are bad, they've always been bad and the community is made up of retards who fail to point that out, which means they will always be bad.

1) Swamps are worse.

2) Forest (and swamp) is why Pathfinder is a good perk.

3) It's easy to use choke points to your advantage (or it's just me being good at reading the map).

4) The community as a whole is bad? Perhaps it's not the community who's bad? I mean, what is more likely: a few amazing people thinking X is bad, while everyone else and their mother not noticing that OR a few people having difficulties with the game and blaming everyone else for not seeing things their way?

 

[vazha]

Well, I just got ROYALLY F-U-C-K-E-D in my campaign...

I managed to save quite a few a dudes, but still, lost 8 prime killers.

Did teh swordu-masataru survive?