Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

[Teut Busnet]

As long as you can choose what and when to fight, ironman isn't a problem. Cheap tanks aren't hard to find, at low level easy to replace, at high level extremly hard to kill. With all the shenanigans you can do with quick, nimble and dodgy polearm wielders, enemies get very few attacks off in 'regular' fights.

(You'll need a good start though, and I'm not one of the guys who storm Black Monolith on day 30 with a group of beggars and cripples.)

 

[Old One]

I like to look for bros with "Team Player" to make into gunners. Then you can blast right through your own bros with near (but not total) impunity.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Has anyone tried mass guns?

I tried it with 'Fearsome' gunners, because I heard many people loved it.

The results where underwhelming and the micromanagement annoyed me. Nevermind that 'Fearsome' is of course useless in many fights, including 3 of the 4 toughest legendary ones - if not all of them.

If you want to play something fun, install Legends + PTR.
Play 1/2 2H swordmen with the kata perk (one free move toward an enemy you can reach after a kill), +50% fatalities and the sanguinary perk giving you +3/4AP for a fatality and berserk of course + full fatigue recovery and damage.

Mass destruction against swarms of enemies.

It's way more fun than guns, probably even better on a berserker origin, although, i prefer my berserker specialized in survival and single target high damage.

 

[HumanTotemPole]

Has anyone tried mass guns?

I tried it with 'Fearsome' gunners, because I heard many people loved it.

The results where underwhelming and the micromanagement annoyed me. Nevermind that 'Fearsome' is of course useless in many fights, including 3 of the 4 toughest legendary ones - if not all of them.

If you want to play something fun, install Legends + PTR.
Play 1/2 2H swordmen with the kata perk (one free move toward an enemy you can reach after a kill), +50% fatalities and the sanguinary perk giving you +3/4AP for a fatality and berserk of course + full fatigue recovery and damage.

Mass destruction against swarms of enemies.

It's way more fun than guns, probably even better on a berserker origin, although, i prefer my berserker specialized in survival and single target high damage.

Does PTR still have enemy balance problems? In older versions things like all Honour Guards getting Follow Up made some fights near impossible.

 

[gogis]

Has anyone tried mass guns?

I tried it with 'Fearsome' gunners, because I heard many people loved it.

The results where underwhelming and the micromanagement annoyed me. Nevermind that 'Fearsome' is of course useless in many fights, including 3 of the 4 toughest legendary ones - if not all of them.

If you want to play something fun, install Legends + PTR.
Play 1/2 2H swordmen with the kata perk (one free move toward an enemy you can reach after a kill), +50% fatalities and the sanguinary perk giving you +3/4AP for a fatality and berserk of course + full fatigue recovery and damage.

Mass destruction against swarms of enemies.

It's way more fun than guns, probably even better on a berserker origin, although, i prefer my berserker specialized in survival and single target high damage.

Does PTR still have enemy balance problems? In older versions things like all Honour Guards getting Follow Up made some fights near impossible.

I just went through several PTR runs and my conclusion it's mature enough to be a straight up upgrade to unbalanced mess which is current vanilla Legends. They need to merge it quicker. Weapon masteries matter, medium armor actually fun to use and game is often gloriously frightening in a good way, since enemies have access to all perk goodies too. I didn't found follow-up to be as threatening as you describe, but I generally tackle empire sites late and regard them as relatively end game content. So when I come, I crush, follow-up notwithstanding. Fully recommend, I don't get guys still playing vanilla, it's eye-gougingly boring. Only one thing I still hate in legends is armor layers. It's tedious as fuck, but it's likely unviable to play without (probably not anymore, since most of your frontline will be medium armor, idk)

 

[Darth Canoli]

Does PTR still have enemy balance problems? In older versions things like all Honour Guards getting Follow Up made some fights near impossible.

They do but they don't over-use it.
Well, don't fight honor guards until you're ready, they're a high level threat.

Sure, it makes some fights extremely hard.
Champions lindwurms and stolwurms are hell in big packs and you don't want to take white wolves legendary contracts but at some point, when you finally have all the named equipment you've always dreamed of enchanted by your vala and with the best crafted attachments, full party of hedge knights/master swordsmen and the likes, the white wolves contracts and big wurms packs are something to look forward to.

 

[HumanTotemPole]

Has anyone tried mass guns?

I tried it with 'Fearsome' gunners, because I heard many people loved it.

The results where underwhelming and the micromanagement annoyed me. Nevermind that 'Fearsome' is of course useless in many fights, including 3 of the 4 toughest legendary ones - if not all of them.

If you want to play something fun, install Legends + PTR.
Play 1/2 2H swordmen with the kata perk (one free move toward an enemy you can reach after a kill), +50% fatalities and the sanguinary perk giving you +3/4AP for a fatality and berserk of course + full fatigue recovery and damage.

Mass destruction against swarms of enemies.

It's way more fun than guns, probably even better on a berserker origin, although, i prefer my berserker specialized in survival and single target high damage.

Does PTR still have enemy balance problems? In older versions things like all Honour Guards getting Follow Up made some fights near impossible.

I just went through several PTR runs and my conclusion it's mature enough to be a straight up upgrade to unbalanced mess which is current vanilla Legends. They need to merge it quicker. Weapon masteries matter, medium armor actually fun to use and game is often gloriously frightening in a good way, since enemies have access to all perk goodies too. I didn't found follow-up to be as threatening as you describe, but I generally tackle empire sites late and regard them as relatively end game content. So when I come, I crush, follow-up notwithstanding. Fully recommend, I don't get guys still playing vanilla, it's eye-gougingly boring. Only one thing I still hate in legends is armor layers. It's tedious as fuck, but it's likely unviable to play without (probably not anymore, since most of your frontline will be medium armor, idk)

Haven't actually played Legends with PTR yet. When it first came out there were allegedly some balance issues but it sounds like they've sorted it. Definitely a goer for my next Legends run.

 

[The Wall]

Can't wait for next thing from Battle Brothers Devs

 

[Payd Shell]

So I've tried guns and they're a mixed bag. Very good in prolonged fights like you get during the noble war, with footmen blocking the back ranks. With guns you can just blast away at the backline because they don't get the cover penalty other ranged weapons get, you just get a -10% to accuracy for each tile behind the first, meaning you can shred billmen quite easily. They're also good against lindwurms to an extent because you can hit both the tail and the head. Sadly, that's about it - sure you can cleave through rabble like thugs or zombies like a hot knife through butter but those fights don't give you any trouble anyway. Also, the moment guns become somewhat viable is the stage of the game where your frontline should annihlate the enemy frontline quite easily. But if RNG isn't on your side and you get a slogfest with shieldwalling footmen guns help quite a bit.

 

[Payd Shell]

Also:

Fuck Ifrits.

 

[Serus]

Also:

Fuck Ifrits.

Yeah, them and the walking sleeping pills are probably the 2 worst - as in least interesting - enemy types in the game.

 

[Old One]

I vote Ifrits. They're just boring.

They need to be spiced up somehow.

 

[Jrpgfan]

Ifrits were a letdown even before the update was released.

Everyone was expecting something like this:

Then they come up with this shit:

 

[Parabalus]

So I've tried guns and they're a mixed bag. Very good in prolonged fights like you get during the noble war, with footmen blocking the back ranks. With guns you can just blast away at the backline because they don't get the cover penalty other ranged weapons get, you just get a -10% to accuracy for each tile behind the first, meaning you can shred billmen quite easily. They're also good against lindwurms to an extent because you can hit both the tail and the head. Sadly, that's about it - sure you can cleave through rabble like thugs or zombies like a hot knife through butter but those fights don't give you any trouble anyway. Also, the moment guns become somewhat viable is the stage of the game where your frontline should annihlate the enemy frontline quite easily. But if RNG isn't on your side and you get a slogfest with shieldwalling footmen guns help quite a bit.

I found them very effective vs goblins too. They can aim uphill nicely, very useful against forts.

 

[Fargus]

Ifrits were a letdown even before the update was released.

Everyone was expecting something like this:

Then they come up with this shit:

Yeah, i was disappointed with their design. Nothing more exciting than fighting a piece of rock, eh...

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Ifrits were a letdown even before the update was released.

Everyone was expecting something like this:

Then they come up with this shit:

Yeah, i was disappointed with their design. Nothing more exciting than fighting a piece of rock, eh...

Is that a gut punch or a groin attack?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Yeah, them and the walking sleeping pills are probably the 2 worst - as in least interesting - enemy types in the game.

Fake News, I find the Alps quite fun and easy to deal with but with some interesting mechanics and Legends adds Demon Alps which makes it even more interesting with the "old" shadows thing on top of it.

Jrpgfan Exactly, not only their Ifrit is just an earth elemental but they added their re-composition mechanics which only makes the fight extra tedious.
Worst of all, no mod ever removed Ifrits from the game so I just skip their contracts and usually avoid them on the map.

 

[Brancaleone]

Also:

Fuck Ifrits.

Yeah, them and the walking sleeping pills are probably the 2 worst - as in least interesting - enemy types in the game.

No wonder they are also the two most gimmicky enemies.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I like Alps, they're fun

 

[Serus]

Yeah, them and the walking sleeping pills are probably the 2 worst - as in least interesting - enemy types in the game.

Fake News, I find the Alps quite fun and easy to deal with but with some interesting mechanics and Legends adds Demon Alps which makes it even more interesting with the "old" shadows thing on top of it.

Jrpgfan Exactly, not only their Ifrit is just an earth elemental but they added their re-composition mechanics which only makes the fight extra tedious.
Worst of all, no mod ever removed Ifrits from the game so I just skip their contracts and usually avoid them on the map.

It's not "news", it's called an "opinion".

Maybe there are some interesting variation of Alps but that's Legends. The vanilla sleeping pills are not only easy as you admitted yourself (this is not a good thing!) but each fight with them is the same. A bad combination if you ask me. How is that interesting is beyond me but i suppose it's a matter of preference. And ifrits suck too. In general it's hard to have an interesting fight when you have only one type of enemies with only one or two types of action. You at very least need to make it dangerous and/or have tension to the fight (as in, for example, one bad move or bad positioning can be fatal), Alps are neither. They are better that Iffrits but only because of slightly shorter fights (at least it feels that way to me) and Alps have better lore or more precisely lore is better tied to the mechanics. Iffrits - as others have pointed out - you expect dangerous strange or magic beings and get... bunch of rocks.

 

[Brancaleone]

Yeah, them and the walking sleeping pills are probably the 2 worst - as in least interesting - enemy types in the game.

Fake News, I find the Alps quite fun and easy to deal with but with some interesting mechanics and Legends adds Demon Alps which makes it even more interesting with the "old" shadows thing on top of it.

Jrpgfan Exactly, not only their Ifrit is just an earth elemental but they added their re-composition mechanics which only makes the fight extra tedious.
Worst of all, no mod ever removed Ifrits from the game so I just skip their contracts and usually avoid them on the map.

It's not "news", it's called an "opinion".

Maybe there are some interesting variation of Alps but that's Legends. The vanilla sleeping pills are not only easy as you admitted yourself (this is not a good thing!) but each fight with them is the same. A bad combination if you ask me. How is that interesting is beyond me but i suppose it's a matter of preference. And ifrits suck too. In general it's hard to have an interesting fight when you have only one type of enemies with only one or two types of action. You at very least need to make it dangerous and/or have tension to the fight (as in, for example, one bad move or bad positioning can be fatal), Alps are neither. They are better that Iffrits but only because of slightly shorter fights (at least it feels that way to me) and Alps have better lore or more precisely lore is better tied to the mechanics. Iffrits - as others have pointed out - you expect dangerous strange or magic beings and get... bunch of rocks.

Exactly. And the problem is, their gimmicks instead a forcing any kind of tactical dilemma onto you, they force you to repeat that same thing a mind-numbing number of times, since you basically have to grind them down (the ifrits because of the fusion thing, the alps because of their teleport on hit, which means you usually hit a different one most of the time). The alps are even worse, because they make formation meaningless, you just have to keep the blob and hit the closest one, wake up, rinse and repeat.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Exactly. And the problem is, their gimmicks instead a forcing any kind of tactical dilemma onto you, they force you to repeat that same thing a mind-numbing number of times, since you basically have to grind them down (the ifrits because of the fusion thing, the alps because of their teleport on hit, which means you usually hit a different one most of the time). The alps are even worse, because they make formation meaningless, you just have to keep the blob and hit the closest one, wake up, rinse and repeat.

How is it different from nachos, wieldergangers, spiders, hyenas, serpents and the likes?

Besides, even the most complex battles aren't really interesting, tactical wise, it's always the same old encounter design or worse, randomly shuffled formation in the woods with no visibility.

How are the Alps encounters more mind-numbing?
I think it's a breath of fresh air because it introduces interesting different mechanics.
Just like the hexes.

 

[Ibn Sina]

Exactly. And the problem is, their gimmicks instead a forcing any kind of tactical dilemma onto you, they force you to repeat that same thing a mind-numbing number of times, since you basically have to grind them down (the ifrits because of the fusion thing, the alps because of their teleport on hit, which means you usually hit a different one most of the time). The alps are even worse, because they make formation meaningless, you just have to keep the blob and hit the closest one, wake up, rinse and repeat.

How is it different from nachos, wieldergangers, spiders, hyenas, serpents and the likes?

Besides, even the most complex battles aren't really interesting, tactical wise, it's always the same old encounter design or worse, randomly shuffled formation in the woods with no visibility.

How are the Alps encounters more mind-numbing?
I think it's a breath of fresh air because it introduces interesting different mechanics.
Just like the hexes.

I got the sense from reading the replies that a lot of the "meta" players in this game do not like unorthodox tactics or any deviations from regular human attacks. In fact I got the sense that if it was up to them, the entire game would be human enemies throwing their waves at your uber formation of min maxed elite bros with no variables or variations in anything whatsoever.

 

[Serus]

Exactly. And the problem is, their gimmicks instead a forcing any kind of tactical dilemma onto you, they force you to repeat that same thing a mind-numbing number of times, since you basically have to grind them down (the ifrits because of the fusion thing, the alps because of their teleport on hit, which means you usually hit a different one most of the time). The alps are even worse, because they make formation meaningless, you just have to keep the blob and hit the closest one, wake up, rinse and repeat.

How is it different from nachos, wieldergangers, spiders, hyenas, serpents and the likes?

Besides, even the most complex battles aren't really interesting, tactical wise, it's always the same old encounter design or worse, randomly shuffled formation in the woods with no visibility.

How are the Alps encounters more mind-numbing?
I think it's a breath of fresh air because it introduces interesting different mechanics.
Just like the hexes.

Nachos are very different and much, much (much...) more interesting to fight. They are a level of complexity higher than all the others you mentioned. Have 3 "levels". The highest with an additional dangerous and fun attack. Add the ability to grow into higher types - but only under certain condition. All this requires 10x tactical considerations fighting them compared to all others. I remember one fight where i made some mistakes and killed some nachos that i shouldn't have - as early. A couple of nachos grew. I ended with several big ones and several of my bros being swallowed. I eventually won by killing all smaller ones and then the big ones one by one freeing my people. It was FUN. You simply can't get that with Alps.

Serpents or wolfs and hyenas are better because they can actually pose a danger and the battle itself is intense and usually fast. Not like Alps. The spiders i might agree, they are often boring because just like Alps they rarely pose a danger and don't have anything to very interesting about them. And are slow, just like Alps. Still, slaughtering waves of attackers is subjectively more satisfying than poking some teleporting things.
Hexes. Making a bro change sides or casting a spell that makes you damage your own bro is "just like Alps"? I suppose we have to agree to disagree big time here. I find hexes mechanics interesting and game changing while for Alps is just a gimmick: make me lose a few APs every turn. Big deal.

I asked you before but i honestly forgot the answer:
Why do you play a tactical game about fighting hundreds of battles that has "even most complex battles battles not really interesting"?

 

[Brancaleone]

Exactly. And the problem is, their gimmicks instead a forcing any kind of tactical dilemma onto you, they force you to repeat that same thing a mind-numbing number of times, since you basically have to grind them down (the ifrits because of the fusion thing, the alps because of their teleport on hit, which means you usually hit a different one most of the time). The alps are even worse, because they make formation meaningless, you just have to keep the blob and hit the closest one, wake up, rinse and repeat.

How is it different from nachos, wieldergangers, spiders, hyenas, serpents and the likes?

Errr, seriously?

Nachos force you to choose whether to kill, and risk them eating, or spread your damage in order to wound and lower morale, or just defend until they all are tied up before starting attacking.
Position-wise, it's probably the most demanding type of encounter, since you have to take into account not only their access to existing bodies, but also how the scatter mechanics for additional bodies might put them beyond the area you can deny them, or control in some way.
If you go for their morale, you have to be very careful about the ones who flee, since if they rally they are going before you, and many times they can eat before you can do anything about it.
The gobble ability of tier three adds another big chunk to the equation, just imagine how a battle against tier three is different compared to tier two.
And so on, and on.

P.S. I see Serus has already answered so I'll avoid wasting more time on the other cases, and honestly, if your position is that they are all the same, this conversation is pointless.