NSFW Best Thread Ever [No SJW-related posts allowed]

[Kitchen Utensil]

1v1 duel skill mostly comes down to intimate knowledge of map layouts and item respawn times for maximum efficiency. You can be awful at aiming and still beat someone simply by having great control of the map.

I'm well aware of that, and I don't enjoy that type of gameplay in the slightest. I don't think just getting the best first spawn on the map near red armor or mega health should should be able to get you such a massive lead of multiple kills early on if you are able to keep that ball rolling, and I feel that both players starting out on equal footing each death where it's skill vs skill and some degree of map knowledge is more fun to play for me. I can understand people enjoying that type of gameplay but the ring around the rosey of most non-arena modes is not for me, it just feels hopeless to me if another player gets the early lead and makes me want to call GG to just end it.
Of course, arena modes exclusively get boring after a while and it's among the reasons why I quit Reflex Arena, I enjoy the gameplay of Tribes a lot more when it comes to AFPS.

I think you're way oversimplifying things. Especially the importance of a lucky initial spawn. One player may spawn near Red Armor and Mega Health, but then the other player will probably have two Yellow Armors and the Railgun or something which should allow him to attack at least one of the two items next spawn and ideally hit the opponent when he grabs the other one. You simply have to know what to do with your spawn, know your place in a way. Yes, item timing/map control is extremely important in duel, but it's not just a tool to control a lead or lucky first spawn, it can also be a tool which enables you to come back. When the leading player becomes overconfident and you do have some timing skills and map knowledge, he'll lose control easily. Timing/map control are simply additional skills which are required to be good in modes which include items.
In arena modes, aiming is pretty much everything, whereas duels with items allow you to compensate for bad aiming (and unlucky initial spawns!) with good item timing and smart play to some degree and vice versa. Of course there's a problem with run-away victories, but most of the time these only happen when one player is clearly better in all gameplay aspects. Chances are that player would have defeated his opponent in a duel without items about just as convincingly. Most of the time, aiming, movement skills, item timing and map knowledge come together. Rarely have I seen a player be total shit at one or two and be great at the others.
If you don't enjoy learning a map and timing items, it's a different story of course. But I found it extremely satisfying once I started to get comfortable with it.

 

[Perkel]

This argument reminds me also needless complexity of button combos in fighting games.

There are shitload of sperglords (especially new to genre) who think fighting games are actually about button combos rather than high level play.

Whole point of playing fighting game IS high level play and anything that keeps you away from it (like needles complexity of controls) is negative.

Obviously there are some games that give you so many attacks that you simply can't get away from combos (like tekken) but i don't see for example a reason why such things exist for Guilty Gear where each character has like 8-9 moves combined + standard 4 actions (though i think in one of arc sys games it gave you ability to map whole action to button).

edit:

in duels spawning is important but in any other mode it is not as important as just plain aim skill or movement. For me personally red armors and such not in duels were just easy frags as it is easy bait for low skilled players who can shoot but not think about what they are doing.

 

[Infinitron]

MiniDoom 2 - free sidescrolling platformer: http://calavera.studio/en/games/minidoom2/

 

[Kitchen Utensil]

This argument reminds me also needless complexity of button combos in fighting games.

There are shitload of sperglords (especially new to genre) who think fighting games are actually about button combos rather than high level play.

Whole point of playing fighting game IS high level play and anything that keeps you away from it (like needles complexity of controls) is negative.

Obviously there are some games that give you so many attacks that you simply can't get away from combos (like tekken) but i don't see for example a reason why such things exist for Guilty Gear where each character has like 8-9 moves combined + standard 4 actions (though i think in one of arc sys games it gave you ability to map whole action to button).

You are a fucking decline-enabler par excellence.

 

[unfairlight]

If you don't enjoy learning a map and timing items, it's a different story of course. But I found it extremely satisfying once I started to get comfortable with it.

I don't in the slightest. If you are underequipped you just have to bhop around and hope to get more items, which is the type of ring around the rosey gameplay I hate since instead of just fighting my enemy in a duel of skill I just hope he didn't count numbers as well as I did and I go for more armor, hp, ammo and weapons. I don't really know why I even bother writing these posts out since I don't like Quake, there's so few new people in Quake and it's not a team based game in most accounts aside from some unpopular gamemodes like doubles which just means rape until I pass the barrier of acceptable instead of being able to assist better teammates and casually have fun like you could in Midair or Counter Strike, which are the two major semi-competitive FPS games I enjoy.

 

[Perkel]

You are a fucking decline-enabler par excellence.

Point of fighting games is to fight with your character instead of fighting with controller.

With your argument Tekken should be best fighting game because it has the most complicated button combos and the most of them but in fact it is not and people who play Tekken with skill basically choose 10 maybe 15 out of 50-60 moves and play only with those and usually those 10-15 also are easy to pull off.

And it is one of the best actul tips you can give to people starting playing fighting games.

Instead of focusing on all moves learn only 5-6 (controls made easy) and learn when to use them (high level play). You will be far more successful that spending months trying to pull of various combos just by virtue of training in high level play instead of fighting controls.

Then when you are familiar with those 5-6 moves learn one more and learn when to use it.

 

[vonAchdorf]

MiniDoom 2 - free sidescrolling platformer: http://calavera.studio/en/games/minidoom2/

Doom x Keen (x SMB 3).

 

[Kitchen Utensil]

If you don't enjoy learning a map and timing items, it's a different story of course. But I found it extremely satisfying once I started to get comfortable with it.

I don't in the slightest. If you are underequipped you just have to bhop around and hope to get more items, which is the type of ring around the rosey gameplay I hate since instead of just fighting my enemy in a duel of skill I just hope he didn't count numbers as well as I did and I go for more armor, hp, ammo and weapons. [...]

I'm totally okay if someone doesn't enjoy it, and you probably don't care, but I have to respond because it really is much more than "hop around and hope to get more items". If you can time items and know the map, if you have map awareness, then you know where your opponent is, what items will spawn next, which route your opponent is most likely to take to get to that item. Even if you have no armor whatsoever and just a Rocket Launcher or Railgun because you just respawned, that puts you in a position to crawl back. Camp somewhere until your opponent grabs that MH or RA or whatever and hit him and run grab the YA which you know just spawned in the next room. Or you know that your opponent likely knows you'd do that, so don't wait for him and grab the YA first and attack him at the next item...

People seem to confuse skill with what they're personally good at. But item timing, map knowledge, map awareness (and mechanical skill with movement, or with combos in fighting games, or APM in RTS) are also skills. They are the foundation of these games/modes. They help higher the skill ceiling, which in a competitive game is a good thing. I'd have thought the Codex of all places would understand this.

 

[Perkel]

That makes me think VR headsets will offer very soon proper eye targeting (basically aimbot for things like railgun).
I wonder what community will say and what argument will be used considering most of people use mouse instead of joustick or pad because of increased ease of use. Which kind goes well into my point of artificial complexity.

To me it is obvious that the scale isn't:
Complexity of controls ------------------------------------- Ease of Use
But:
Feedback (fun factor) -------------------------------------- Ease of use (self explanatory).

Wheel for racing games nicely represents that. Obviously it is more complex than pad or just arrow keys on keyboard but it provides much better feedback which gives you ability to be better in racing game (at least in simulation games).

Other interesting argument (at least for FPS games such as quake) is targeting with camera vs targeting with gun itself.
When i started to play VR games i instantly noticed that detaching camera from gun makes it waaaaaay easier to target enemies which is kind of logical because your brain doesn't need to calculate where someone will be in future based on moving picture (which usually goes in completely different angle/direction) vs prediction of enemy movement on mostly still/focused image where you brain only needs to track target instead of target and environment.

Does rise of eye tracking and non camera targeting mean people will focus on high level play more instead of training themselves in game controls. I would want to see top level Q3 players with such setups.

I'd have thought the Codex of all places would understand this.

There are various tastes. Someone can understand something but don't enjoy it. I for one always prefered to play freeforall deathmatch rather than team deathmatch or 1on1 deathmatch. Instead of counting numbers you focus far more on strategy and misdirection rather than trying to outdo someone in counting game or trickjumps for max speed in CTF

It is part of reason why i never liked strafejumping. You could always see those people trying to do that in FFA deathmatch with multiple people and dying left and right because they are more focused on trying to apply movement skill to reach predictable spots that strafe jumping allows them instead of focusing on actual skill and misdirection which is far more important in FFA than some sperglord jumping.

 

[Perkel]

MiniDoom 2 - free sidescrolling platformer: http://calavera.studio/en/games/minidoom2/

Before demakes became a thing:




there was even brutal doom before brutal doom though i don't remember name of it anymore (same 2d shooting platformer as Duke Nukem but with shitload of gore)

 

[Infinitron]

^Old enough to have played that before Duke Nukem 3D was released.

 

[Perkel]

^Old enough to have played that before Duke Nukem 3D was released.

I never found it good. I played other game like Duke Nukem which was full of gore and same kind of artstyle though name eludes me.

 

[Infinitron]

Duke 1 was great.

I played other game like Duke Nukem which was full of gore and same kind of artstyle though name eludes me.

Dangerous Dave in the Haunted Mansion, perhaps?

 

[Perkel]

Dangerous Dave in the Haunted Mansion, perhaps?

Nope faaar more gory. Like brutal doom level of gore just in 2D. Though it might come out later after DN1 or even 2 i don't remember much from those times, it all kind of flows together.


hmmm. After thinking it could be romhack of duke nukem 2, due to poland at the time never really having any proper retail market for pc games there was shitload of mutated stuff.

 

[Tehdagah]

Strafe jumping isn't hard to do.

It is not about something being hard or not.
It is about something being logical.

Acceleration is the mechanic which seems to be liked by people.
Instead of making it default attribute of jump it stays behind completely idiotic bug related strafe jumping.

Why ?

Because it makes the game more complex than simply accelerating by jumping forward.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

 

[The Decline]

^Old enough to have played that before Duke Nukem 3D was released.

Fuck I feel old.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Dangerous Dave in the Haunted Mansion, perhaps?

Nope faaar more gory. Like brutal doom level of gore just in 2D. Though it might come out later after DN1 or even 2 i don't remember much from those times, it all kind of flows together.


hmmm. After thinking it could be romhack of duke nukem 2, due to poland at the time never really having any proper retail market for pc games there was shitload of mutated stuff.

Was it Abuse?

 

[Perkel]

Was it Abuse?

Great fucking game but unfortunately it is not it :/.

 

[T. Reich]

Or Alien Carnage?

 

[Ninja Destroyer]

If not Alien Carnage, maybe Alien Rampage.

 

[Perkel]

Thanks for responses but no, none of them.

It looks art style wise something like Duke Nukem 2 but it is very gory to point which none of those games you present even compare. We are talking about shooter in which you can literally make mince meat out of enemies (which are mostly human).

It was very fun to play mostly due to that feedback at the time.

 

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

Hmm I too was also trying to remember a side scrolling platformer, I remember it having some levels in which you use a submarine, the player had long hair
and the pixel art was high detail.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

A couple of suggestions for Perkel:

 

[Perkel]

Guys before you try to nail down it read i what i wrote. Unless something doesn't remind you of this (just in 2D) it isn't it.