Best thread ever.

[Levski 1912]

No. "It requires player skill." is not an effective argument. There has never been a "game" that did not require player skill outside of pure games of chance (which doesn't even include most gambling card games).

"This requires me to click fast instead of think and react or be in character" would be a more effective argument (even though it's based on the assumption that fast clicking would be necessary, which isn't exactly what was stated).

See, this is what happens when you jump on bandwagons without really knowing what's going on

Think about it then- would you rather click on and on, or think and react in character? Just curious.

 

[Solik]

Obviously I would rather think and react in character. But that's not what this is about. My response had nothing to do with that choice. That, in fact, is what I offered as a more effective argument -- not the argument Lumpy actually made that I was responding to.

However, I think that choosing to use Persuasion is already playing in-character. What follows from that is just implementation detail -- whether I roll a d20, or whether the computer does a lookup in an RNG table, or whether I press a couple buttons on the screen, what have you. If the implementation detail is fun, great. If it's not, hopefully I can get over it.

This isn't replacing a roleplay feature with a minigame. This is replacing a dice roll with a minigame. It's important to keep those two separate.

 

[Levski 1912]

Not exactly...in the D&D based games, you actually saw your character's possible responses, which enabled you to actually think about how to answer. This can lead to you answering with a different purpose than what you originally intended, for example if a response is just too deliciously twisted to miss. Oblivion's dialog system doesn't have anything like this, and a persuasion minigame is just a step in the wrong direction.

 

[Solik]

Those games don't have a "Persuasion" skill that you can execute whenever you want on an NPC. Instead, dialogue in those games (I'm assuming you mean the Baldur's Gate series and similar?) comes from just talking to an NPC. Supposedly, that also will exist in Oblivion (and more often than Morrowind, if the fan interview is to be believed). However, that is separate from Persuasion itself.

I believe the D&D-based games only adjusted disposition based on things like reputation, alignment, race, Charisma, and Charm-type spells, all of which is also already done in Oblivion. Persuasion's extra.

 

[Levski 1912]

You could do things like "Persuade", "Bluff", and many others in games such as Planescape, with some of the choices affected by Intelligence or Wisdom. Also, the dialog was far more interesting.

 

[Solik]

I haven't seen Oblivion's dialogue yet, so I'll hold out on judging which is more interesting. Given that dialogue has never been the focus of TES, I'll be willing to bet you're right. Still, nobody ever really expected a deep dialogue exchange system for Persuasion to begin with (particularly since it would probably require all characters that speak with NPCs to be good at Persuasion, because it would replace a lot of standard dialogue trees and such). What most people expected was a repeat of Morrowind's system. Well, what we got is a repeat of Morrowind's system, only the dice roll result is more interactive.

Still, I think this's off-topic for this thread, so I'll let it go

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

I like how they implemented the Empathy perk in Fallout - sure it told you which responses would make others happy, but sometimes you have to piss people off to get what you want.

 

[bryce777]

I haven't seen Oblivion's dialogue yet, so I'll hold out on judging which is more interesting. Given that dialogue has never been the focus of TES, I'll be willing to bet you're right. Still, nobody ever really expected a deep dialogue exchange system for Persuasion to begin with (particularly since it would probably require all characters that speak with NPCs to be good at Persuasion, because it would replace a lot of standard dialogue trees and such). What most people expected was a repeat of Morrowind's system. Well, what we got is a repeat of Morrowind's system, only the dice roll result is more interactive.

Still, I think this's off-topic for this thread, so I'll let it go

If you have read anything about oblivion, you could not possibly think its dialog is interesting.

The cartoon with the conversation of "dark brotherhood" "join us" "bribe" sums up how the dialog works.

 

[HardCode]

I heard the TES forumers just had an real-life get together:

 

[Solik]

Calling people with different tastes than you stupid is fun! Especially if you can do it in a racist context like a backwater hillbilly!

 

[HardCode]

No, calling retard fanboys retards is accurate. When a forum full of stupid asses argue an RPG, but basically describe things in FPS games, the shoe fits. And they were it. And the context isn't racist. I Google Image searched for "retard" and this came up, so fuck off.

 

[Solik]

That's some pretty nice high-school logic there, guy. Everyone who disagrees with you is naturally a retarded fanboy, so calling them such isn't insulting, eh? I bow before the might of your intellect.

 

[Micmu]

Looks like a picture of OB's beta testing team.

 

[kingcomrade]

And we were all wondering what type of focus group decided crossbows were gay.

 

[Levski 1912]

I guess Bethesda translated "I need food" to "xbowz are teh ghey!".

 

[Data4]

Straight from the Delusions of Grandeur file,

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=224475

I knew they took us seriously as is, but the new trailer proves it. Not two weeks ago I asked on the forum for a new trailer, and here it is.

YIPPIE!!! This is in reference to the Making Of trailer just released. Damn thing didn't even show anything new in the game and he's all worshipping at the feet of the Almighty Devs.

-D4

 

[LlamaGod]

And we were all wondering what type of focus group decided crossbows were gay.

yeah, accurate and easy to use missle weapons are totally homosexual.

 

[Levski 1912]

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=224612

It's like a fucking religion, grant it tax-exempt status already. Anyone reminded of the South Park episode with the David Blaine cult?

 

[Data4]

I literally feel sick to my stomach. No, I'm serious. I knew that thread would be embarassing to read (and it was... dear God in heaven, it was), but I feel ill now.

I sincerely hope Bethesda team members are freaked out by this. I mean, brand appreciation and loyalty is one thing, but this... this is just pathological. I fear those people.

-D4

 

[Chefe]

It's like a fucking religion, grant it tax-exempt status already. Anyone reminded of the South Park episode with the David Blaine cult?

:D

 

[Levski 1912]

Excellent Chefe. Now instead of tubgirling the official forums, this image should be used.

 

[Section8]

This one struck me as being darkly humourous. At least the poster is looking to innovate.

 

[Levski 1912]

I made a poll mocking Oblivion's weapons a while back, but a mod came along and censored all the choices, and proceeded to lock it shortly afterwards.

 

[Section8]

Fucking hell, why do I do it? Visiting the Elder Scrolls forums is probably the most depressing thing a person can do, but I'm like a fucking rubbernecker.

Drooling fanboys falling over themselves to give Bethesda even more money

Shouldn't mods be an incentive to buy the game? Something like - "Wow, look at the great support the developers are offering us! Free content! It seems as though they care about supporting their loyal fans, even after the game purchase has been finalised!"

But no, the ESF consensus is "let's pay for the game, and then pay for stuff that should have been in the game!"

Fuck.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Why is that guy's hand black?