Best thread ever.

[Blahblah Talks]

Quick question.

Can someone explain to me why the "Oblivion dialogues/monologues" are modified by the adjective (?) wikipedic?

 

[Chefe]

Lappa = Frankie?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I said all major forums have their retards.

No doubt about that, the problem with TES forum is the 100:1 ratio.

That's Morrowind, kid. The dialog seems half decent in Oblivion.

Seems? Based on what, empty promises?

Linear plot? Not much more so than any other game.

You have no clue what you are talking about, do you?

 

[Lappa]

Quick question.

Can someone explain to me why the "Oblivion dialogues/monologues" are modified by the adjective (?) wikipedic?

I second that question.

(and no I'm not Frankie.)

 

[Chefe]

(and no I'm not Frankie.)

Are you sure?

 

[Nog Robbin]

On Morrowind.
A reasonable effort with a workable if reduced role playing system with scope to be something better. Rather weak story, no real consequence of action, limited options to do anything other than follow the plot or quest lines with single solutions.

I was hoping OB would be better. Sure - it looks better; the graphics are naturally better (some years have passed, technology has moved on), the NPC schedules will add some life, the physics may make things seem more real. But then you have the down sides - focus more on player skills, still dull dialouge (from what we have seen and been told), introduction of dull mini-games (persuasion tetris ), removal of skills, grouping of skills, reduction of select spells because they don't fit the engine implementation, half baked implementations of items just to say there are there (horses you can't fight from, physics that don't even allow thrown items to hurt people - we are yet to find out if the NPC's even notice thrown objects!). No real improvements in the RPG side of things. No improvements to character management (stamina has no effect no other than in battle, gold still has no weight so you can carry ludicrous amounts of it, no need to eat or drink).

I admit, I will still probably get the game for the PC. And I am hoping to be able to mod some RPG goodness in - and get mods from talented people such as Balor to aid in this. But somethings simply will not be easily or effectively moddable (levitation for example, new skills, new weapons types). But there is little competition in the current RPG market.

 

[Lappa]

I said all major forums have their retards.

No doubt about that, the problem with TES forum is the 100:1 ratio.

Getting YE OWLD that, it is. Yes the TES forums gots plenty of retards. Did anyone here disagree?

That's Morrowind, kid. The dialog seems half decent in Oblivion.

Seems? Based on what, empty promises?

There's the e3 video, no? As much evidence to decent dialog as crappy dialog don't you think?

Linear plot? Not much more so than any other game.

You have no clue what you are talking about, do you?

Alas. Enlighten me.

 

[Nog Robbin]

I believe the "wikipedic" dialogue system is one based on topic selection. In other words you don't have the choice of what to say - just simple topics to click on with a predetermined answer. Much like using wikipedia on line.
Some RPG's offer a choice of things to say - and the things you say influence the person you are speaking to and open certain routes or close others. Also the options available of things to say can be based on the personality and skills of the character.

 

[Lappa]

What I fail to see is how having player skills affect the outcome lessens the RPG experience. I mean, if you want to pretend to be a dwarf that sucks with using shields, he's gonna suck with using the shield in Oblivion. If you wanna pretend to be a thief that only uses daggers, then dont use the long blades. Most of the arguments against roleplaying may as well be used to defend it.

Mounted combat though is a loss, but levitation was removed for technical reasons afaik. I think you need to eat and sleep too. Or you can just pretend you need to :wink: .

*edit*
Isn't the bookkeeps dialog a good example of something that affects the outcome? I mean he insults her at somepoint doesen't he?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yes the TES forums gots plenty of retards.

Way too many. That's what makes it different from most other major forums.

There's the e3 video, no? As much evidence to decent dialog as crappy dialog don't you think?

And screens with horrible bland one-liners.

Linear plot? Not much more so than any other game.

You have no clue what you are talking about, do you?

Alas. Enlighten me.

A game with plot points that have to be followed in order is linear, i.e. A, B, C, D, etc. Examples of linear games: MW, KOTOR, Planescape. A game with plot points that could be followed in any order is non-linear, i.e. A, D, C, B, etc. Examples: Fallout, Arcanum, ToEE, even Daggerfall

Compare DF main quest to MW main quest. See that train, where one thing follows another? That's linearity.

 

[Thrawn05]

but levitation was removed for technical reasons afaik

levitation was removed because they think by removing stuff, they are fixing a problem that they are creating by puting cities in an interior cell like they did with Mournhold.

I can't even begin to think how you can be a theif in a walled city like that. I think if you can get over a wall to avoid the cops, go for it. But no, assholes like you who bitched about loading times within cities had to ruin it.

 

[Nog Robbin]

What I fail to see is how having player skills affect the outcome lessens the RPG experience. I mean, if you want to pretend to be a dwarf that sucks with using shields, he's gonna suck with using the shield in Oblivion. If you wanna pretend to be a thief that only uses daggers, then dont use the long blades. Most of the arguments against roleplaying may as well be used to defend it.

Mounted combat though is a loss, but levitation was removed for technical reasons afaik. I think you need to eat and sleep too. Or you can just pretend you need to :wink: .

*edit*
Isn't the bookkeeps dialog a good example of something that affects the outcome? I mean he insults her at somepoint doesen't he?

The point being the focus on graphical goodness has led to the need to remove levitation. If the cities could be in the main exterior cell levitation would not have been a problem.

The dagger/sword thing is a different issue - in MW if you specialised in short blades, and then lost (or broke) your daggers, you could pick up a nearby long sword and flail away reasonably ineffectively. In OB if you get stuck in that situation, picking up the longsword will have you battling like a master - despite never ever having used one... Sure - there could be *some* similarities between a short sword and a long sword (I have proposed linked skill growth to cover this), but a dagger and a claymore? Rather more different, and a specialist of one would not instantly be a master of the other.

No - there is no *need* to eat. Pretending doesn't cut it. RPG should be about choice and consequence. If I forget to eat in OB there will be no consequence. How do I pretend I am weaker due to my lack of planning and acquiring food? How do I pretend I am exhausted from running across the province when I run into a creature to fight? Some things just can't be *pretended* efficiently - because of the lack of in game consequence.

And in the E3 demo with the book keeper, after insulting her the player only had 1 choice of things to say - and that was to reconcile. It's very limited question/answer system is not a real roleplaying replacement for a true dialogue system. And we have seen no other examples really showing any dialogue - which is a bit suspicious when Bethesda seem to like showing the "good" stuff...

 

[Vault Dweller]

What I fail to see is how having player skills affect the outcome lessens the RPG experience. I mean...

What you mean is you fail to understand what an RPG is all about. You confuse them with pretending & acting.

...but levitation was removed for technical reasons afaik.

Who gives a damn?

Isn't the bookkeeps dialog a good example of something that affects the outcome? I mean he insults her at somepoint doesen't he?

You are funny.

 

[Thrawn05]

And in the E3 demo with the book keeper, after insulting her the player only had 1 choice of things to say - and that was to reconcile. It's very limited question/answer system is not a real roleplaying replacement for a true dialogue system. And we have seen no other examples really showing any dialogue - which is a bit suspicious when Bethesda seem to like showing the "good" stuff...

Don't forget the bookkeeper scene in the E3 video was really just scripted. Pete said himself that you won't see that in the final game, it was just to show off Todd's L33T programing skillz. :D

 

[Lappa]

There's the e3 video, no? As much evidence to decent dialog as crappy dialog don't you think?

And screens with horrible bland one-liners.

At least it's not like Morrowind, no?

A game with plot points that have to be followed in order is linear, i.e. A, B, C, D, etc. Examples of linear games: MW, KOTOR, Planescape. A game with plot points that could be followed in any order is non-linear, i.e. A, D, C, B, etc. Examples: Fallout, Arcanum, ToEE, even Daggerfall

But isn't it also non-linear if you get to choose how you go about doing your quests? Like FEAR vs Hitman or something. (can't think of any examples not FPS, shoot me)

 

[Blahblah Talks]

But isn't it also non-linear if you get to choose how you go about doing your quests? Like FEAR vs Hitman or something. (can't think of any examples not FPS, shoot me)

No. Just because you can walk from Seyda Neen to Balmora or take the silt strider does not make that "quest" non-linear.

Basically, the only "multiple-solution" quests in MW were the ones where you needed to get a certain item. You could complete a task for the person who had it, you could kill them and take it, or you could try to steal it. And often, you didn't even have all three of those options.

RE the main quest, I never finished it precisely because it was "Do A, then B, then C.... blah blah." It quickly got too boring for me, so I just went out and started exploring.

 

[Nog Robbin]

And back on topic...

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=232211

So the reason so much stuff has been taken out, is because there is a secret really awesome something that's probably going to be in there... right...

Apparently, that's a "thought" they'd had. They actually thought? Could have fooled me...

 

[Thrawn05]

At least it's not like Morrowind, no?

True, it's much worse.

 

[Nog Robbin]

But isn't it also non-linear if you get to choose how you go about doing your quests? Like FEAR vs Hitman or something. (can't think of any examples not FPS, shoot me)

No - if the only way to resolve a quest is to kill someone, there is only one solution - to kill them. Doesn't matter how many methods you choose - still only one outcome will be acceptable - and that's the death of the someone in question. So that's still linear.

That's like saying Halo isn't linear becuase I could shoot the grunt with a machine gun, or a shot gun, or hell, a rocket launcher. So much choice...

 

[Thrawn05]

And back on topic...

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=232211

So the reason so much stuff has been taken out, is because there is a secret really awesome something that's probably going to be in there... right...

Apparently, that's a "thought" they'd had. They actually thought? Could have fooled me...

Gubba deserves one of Todd's treats.

 

[Balor]

@ Lappa, the dumbfuck

>HOLY SHIT, MY EYES! THEY BLEED! Bandwagon boy ahoy!
Bandwagon boy? And you are fighting TEH POWAH, going against the stream, etc? You just repeat what every dumb Xboxer thinks. Talking of bandwagon boys.

>1) I said all major forums have their retards. (This one too apparently?)

Yea, this forums also has a few. And, since you joined - retardCount++

Question is, Oblivion forum largely CONSIST of retards, with a few exceptions, and most of those 'exceptions' migrated here by now.
Ponder the different for a while.

>2)

Are you THAT dumb, or just playing a dumbfuck?

Nice countering my argument there. Way to go.

The former, then.

>3)

Wikipedic monologues

That's Morrowind, kid. The dialog seems half decent in Oblivion.
Half-decent? Even you admit that it's 'half-decent'. Not decent, not great, not outstanding - 'half-decent'. Yet, it seems like only a bit better then MW, where it was absolutely horrible. And not everywhere, too.
Recent videos prove that. I'd be happy to be mistaken, yet...

>4) Linear plot? Not much more so than any other game. Come on, someone else has to agree with me on this one?

You are Russian (and a disgrace to other Russians, btw), and since you claim to be an RPG guru - you must have played Hammer & Sickle? Now THAT is nonlinear game. Or did you?
Heck, even a bit of multivariance can be fine - have you played Planescape:Torment? Or Kotor2, for that matter?
Have we got there in MW? And I highly doubt we'll have that in Ob.

>5) And ofcourse it's a dungeon hack. What were you expecting. Alot of great RPGs are dungeonhacks, and I dare you to proove me wrong.

Oh, let's put it this way:
Dungeon hack is very different from RPG. In fact, it can be hardly called RPG at all. Seen thread with RPG definitions? But wait...
*edit* and none of those fucking indie rpgs. Ever heard of books? Same thing, less crappy combat.
Erm? Do you realize that you make yourself look like an utter, complete, absolute retard? Or wait, you are one, and you seem to be proud of it. Shine on.

And let me ask - do you think that Diablo is the epitome of what RPG can be? It's epitome of RPGayness, if you ask me. Nice game, but not RPG at all. No more RPG then Mario.

>6) Otsosi, pedik. Golovoi dumai. Tibe skolko let?

Wow! That dickhead just told me to blow him. And he ask me how old am I. How cute.
I presume you think that I'm very young? Doesn't it make you an aged gay pedophile? And one with marasmus, too boot.

Go choke on some dick, cocksucker faggot. I'm old enough to play Fallout and Planescape as soon as they were released, play them in English, and enjoy them immensely..., and smart enough to see why they are great RPGs, and Diablo/Morrowind/Oblvion - are not.

And if you think that they are - too bad for you, cuntface. And don't care how old are you, asshat. Some teenagers I know - much smarter then you, and indeed use their head not only to give it, like you seem to do.

 

[Chefe]

Isn't the bookkeeps dialog a good example of something that affects the outcome? I mean he insults her at somepoint doesen't he?

He moves a dial around until she has an "unhappy face" and clicks the button.

WOW TEH AMAZING AI!!!!

I hope you get used to short stupid phrases spelled out with large font. It's all you'll be seeing in Oblivion.

 

[Drain]

But isn't it also non-linear if you get to choose how you go about doing your quests? Like FEAR vs Hitman or something. (can't think of any examples not FPS, shoot me)

Let me see your face. You are the one from my dreams. Then the stars were right, and this is the day. Gods give me strength!

 

[Lappa]

@ Lappa, the dumbfuck

>HOLY SHIT, MY EYES! THEY BLEED! Bandwagon boy ahoy!
Bandwagon boy? And you are fighting TEH POWAH, going against the stream, etc? You just repeat what every dumb Xboxer thinks. Talking of bandwagon boys.

>1) I said all major forums have their retards. (This one too apparently?)

Yea, this forums also has a few. And, since you joined - retardCount++

Question is, Oblivion forum largely CONSIST of retards, with a few exceptions, and most of those 'exceptions' migrated here by now.
Ponder the different for a while.

>2)

Are you THAT dumb, or just playing a dumbfuck?

Nice countering my argument there. Way to go.

The former, then.

>3)

Wikipedic monologues

That's Morrowind, kid. The dialog seems half decent in Oblivion.
Half-decent? Even you admit that it's 'half-decent'. Not decent, not great, not outstanding - 'half-decent'. Yet, it seems like only a bit better then MW, where it was absolutely horrible. And not everywhere, too.
Recent videos prove that. I'd be happy to be mistaken, yet...


>4) Linear plot? Not much more so than any other game. Come on, someone else has to agree with me on this one?

You are Russian (and a disgrace to other Russians, btw), and since you claim to be an RPG guru - you must have played Hammer & Sickle? Now THAT is nonlinear game. Or did you?
Heck, even a bit of multivariance can be fine - have you played Planescape:Torment? Or Kotor2, for that matter?
Have we got there in MW? And I highly doubt we'll have that in Ob.

>5) And ofcourse it's a dungeon hack. What were you expecting. Alot of great RPGs are dungeonhacks, and I dare you to proove me wrong.

Oh, let's put it this way:
Dungeon hack is very different from RPG. In fact, it can be hardly called RPG at all. Seen thread with RPG definitions? But wait...
*edit* and none of those fucking indie rpgs. Ever heard of books? Same thing, less crappy combat.
Erm? Do you realize that you make yourself look like an utter, complete, absolute retard? Or wait, you are one, and you seem to be proud of it. Shine on.

And let me ask - do you think that Diablo is the epitome of what RPG can be? It's epitome of RPGayness, if you ask me. Nice game, but not RPG at all. No more RPG then Mario.

>6) Otsosi, pedik. Golovoi dumai. Tibe skolko let?

Wow! That dickhead just told me to blow him. And he ask me how old am I. How cute.
I presume you think that I'm very young? Doesn't it make you an aged gay pedophile? And one with marasmus, too boot.

Go choke on some dick, cocksucker faggot. I'm old enough to play Fallout and Planescape as soon as they were released, play them in English, and enjoy them immensely..., and smart enough to see why they are great RPGs, and Diablo/Morrowind/Oblvion - are not.

And if you think that they are - too bad for you, cuntface. And don't care how old are you, asshat. Some teenagers I know - much smarter then you, and indeed use their head not only to give it, like you seem to do.

Whoa, where do I start?

First of all, yes the oblivion forums are retards. You get a cookie for repeating what I said.

The former, then.

And no you still said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to prove me wrong. IN ANYTHING.

and since you claim to be an RPG guru...

When did I calim to be an rpg guru? Sorry, I have a life. Hammer and sickle? Never heard of it.

About the dialog though, it's not good. I ADMIT if it means that much to you. But it's a huge step from morrowind don't you think?

Wow! That dickhead just told me to blow him. And he ask me how old am I. How cute.
I presume you think that I'm very young? Doesn't it make you an aged gay pedophile? And one with marasmus, too boot.

Go choke on some dick, cocksucker faggot. I'm old enough to play Fallout and Planescape as soon as they were released, play them in English, and enjoy them immensely..., and smart enough to see why they are great RPGs, and Diablo/Morrowind/Oblvion - are not.

I also told you to use your head, could've read that part too, no? Yes, I'm a gay pedophile. Satisfied? If all your arguments rely on abuse and being a hardcore CRPG fanboy, you don't have much validity, I dare say even some codexers agree? Yea I played Torment and Fallout too, am old enough to have played them on release, and I enjoyed them. What does it change?

 

[Thrawn05]

But isn't it also non-linear if you get to choose how you go about doing your quests? Like FEAR vs Hitman or something. (can't think of any examples not FPS, shoot me)

Let me see your face. You are the one from my dreams. Then the stars were right, and this is the day. Gods give me strength!

They might has well just have him say: "You're the choosen one. You can't avoid it. Just play it through so you can buy the next $60 Xbox game tomorrow."