Micmu
Magister
"I'm only kidding!"
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Best thread ever.
- Thread starter whitemithrandir
- Start date
Thrawn05
Scholar
Lappa said:
How about an RPG doesn't have you as the fucking chosen one.
Solik
Scholar
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2006
- Messages
- 377
You aren't the chosen one in Oblivion. Your face merely told the emperor that he's about to die, according to his dreams.
I get the "choice with consequence" argument. It's a good argument.
I do not get the "must have amazing dialogue" argument. Did you want an RPG or a conversation simulator?
I get the "choice with consequence" argument. It's a good argument.
I do not get the "must have amazing dialogue" argument. Did you want an RPG or a conversation simulator?
Thrawn05
Scholar
Lappa said:
IIRC, Wizardry V wasn't a chosen one RPG.
@ Solik
What's an RPG without conversations? Action-RPG.
Btw, you think that Crimsonland is an RPG, don't you? It has experience, nonlienarity (you can kill stuff with pistol, shotgun etc, etc), even has perks! Just like in Fallout! So, it must be as good RPG as Fallout, isn't it?
@ Lappa
>You mean like fallout?
If your marasmus will allow, you will surely understand that you were Chosen One in Fallout 2, and, more importantly, that it was a 'anti-cliche' moment, so to speak - to emphasize that you, a great Chosen One... but a barbarian with a spear, in a world where nobody gives a damn about you. An other proof that you are, let's say, not exactly smart.
Oh, and about you previous post:
>And no you still said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to prove me wrong. IN ANYTHING.
*shrugs*
You know how you can know a wise man from dumb? Dumb man will never admit that he's wrong. Mostly comes with inability to see the error in his ways.
And you know that questions provide more information then answers? You questiions show you have no frikking clue what makes an RPG.
(Btw, by insane amount of flooding here - you have no life after all)
Ok, let's break a rule "Don't argue with idiots..." rule, and ask YOU a couple of questions:
That we instantly repent, see light in the end of the tunnel, and go to flood Oblivion General with threads like "Oblivion will be graet becuse... jsut becuse!".
Do you know that it's called 'trolling' and is sneered upon?
Do you realise that we are bitter not because we like to bash good games - but because we know how good RPGs must look like - and almost no so-called RPG even closely matches it, now. We get games like Oblivion instead.
Btw, that was told innumerable amount of times, when an other TES retard popped up and tried to persuade us that:
Oblivion RULEZ!
Codex SUXX!
I admit, that it may be a relatively good 'slasher' this time, because I tend to like such games, too. I also like FPSes and tactics... yet, I like RPGs the most, and mourn the fact that a promising RPG was dumbed down to Action- status.
But, please note, it's RPG Codex, not "Fun Game Codex" (c).
And what's wrong? You this question is asked a millionth time, you know?
And for a million time we explaned what was wrong with it... with growing irritation each time.
I guess you see why you got such a 'warm' welcome, no?
And why we bash Oblivion in particular?
Because it's hyped as an example of a fine RPG. An example of hardcore RPG, even.
Instead, seem to get an Action-RPG. A dungeon hack, just like Todd said. Emagine that you are a fan classic music, then you see some crappy rap performed... and it being complimented as 10 times better then Tchaikovskiy, 100 times better then Bach? I guess you would be a bit... unhappy about that.
Oh, dungeion hack != RPG. It's just a funny arcade with stats.
Anyway, pretty please, read THIS thread.
Don't insult us with your ignorance. Read at least the first page. And THEN argue.
What's an RPG without conversations? Action-RPG.
Btw, you think that Crimsonland is an RPG, don't you? It has experience, nonlienarity (you can kill stuff with pistol, shotgun etc, etc), even has perks! Just like in Fallout! So, it must be as good RPG as Fallout, isn't it?
@ Lappa
>You mean like fallout?
If your marasmus will allow, you will surely understand that you were Chosen One in Fallout 2, and, more importantly, that it was a 'anti-cliche' moment, so to speak - to emphasize that you, a great Chosen One... but a barbarian with a spear, in a world where nobody gives a damn about you. An other proof that you are, let's say, not exactly smart.
Oh, and about you previous post:
>And no you still said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to prove me wrong. IN ANYTHING.
*shrugs*
You know how you can know a wise man from dumb? Dumb man will never admit that he's wrong. Mostly comes with inability to see the error in his ways.
And you know that questions provide more information then answers? You questiions show you have no frikking clue what makes an RPG.
(Btw, by insane amount of flooding here - you have no life after all)
Ok, let's break a rule "Don't argue with idiots..." rule, and ask YOU a couple of questions:
What did you expect by posting this question, oh smart one?
That we instantly repent, see light in the end of the tunnel, and go to flood Oblivion General with threads like "Oblivion will be graet becuse... jsut becuse!".
Do you know that it's called 'trolling' and is sneered upon?
Do you realise that we are bitter not because we like to bash good games - but because we know how good RPGs must look like - and almost no so-called RPG even closely matches it, now. We get games like Oblivion instead.
Btw, that was told innumerable amount of times, when an other TES retard popped up and tried to persuade us that:
Oblivion RULEZ!
Codex SUXX!
I admit, that it may be a relatively good 'slasher' this time, because I tend to like such games, too. I also like FPSes and tactics... yet, I like RPGs the most, and mourn the fact that a promising RPG was dumbed down to Action- status.
But, please note, it's RPG Codex, not "Fun Game Codex" (c).
And what's wrong? You this question is asked a millionth time, you know?
And for a million time we explaned what was wrong with it... with growing irritation each time.
I guess you see why you got such a 'warm' welcome, no?
And why we bash Oblivion in particular?
Because it's hyped as an example of a fine RPG. An example of hardcore RPG, even.
Instead, seem to get an Action-RPG. A dungeon hack, just like Todd said. Emagine that you are a fan classic music, then you see some crappy rap performed... and it being complimented as 10 times better then Tchaikovskiy, 100 times better then Bach? I guess you would be a bit... unhappy about that.
Oh, dungeion hack != RPG. It's just a funny arcade with stats.
Anyway, pretty please, read THIS thread.
Don't insult us with your ignorance. Read at least the first page. And THEN argue.
kingcomrade
Kingcomrade
I'm not sure what you mean. They suck, and we're supposed to refrain from pillorying them just because we expected it to be so retarded? If that logic held, it wouldn't allow us to make fun of douche bags like you.
Solik
Scholar
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2006
- Messages
- 377
That's quite possibly the dumbest thing I've seen you write seriously. Many of the old-school dungeon crawls (all with turn-based tactical combat systems - the Wizardry that was ported to SNES comes to mind) had zero conversation. One of the first CRPGs, Alternate Reality, had zero conversations. Meanwhile, action-RPGs with conversation are entirely possible.Balor said:
Combat systems and minigames have absolutely nothing to do with conversation in any way (quaint minigames used to modify disposition notwithstanding), and yet they are essentially the defining factor between RPG and Action-RPG.
Worst of all, you didn't even begin to address my point, which was not "Why bother having conversation at all?" and instead was "Why do you want a full conversation simulator instead of an RPG?"
Human Shield
Augur
I agree that a reactive world is more important then dialog. Like a roguelike.
Being able to throw ropes around, climb walls, move torches, destroy terrain and buildings, build bridges, swim, dig holes and tunnels, traps and locks, etc...
Survival type RPGs that only have you and monsters can be good RPGs with a reactive enough world.
And a reactive society with different fractions and outcomes makes a better RPG then plain dialog (property of adventure games).
Dialog can help but more important is having tangible results like learning important information or causing results.
Consequences and results (based on stats) create the RPG.
Being able to throw ropes around, climb walls, move torches, destroy terrain and buildings, build bridges, swim, dig holes and tunnels, traps and locks, etc...
Survival type RPGs that only have you and monsters can be good RPGs with a reactive enough world.
And a reactive society with different fractions and outcomes makes a better RPG then plain dialog (property of adventure games).
Dialog can help but more important is having tangible results like learning important information or causing results.
Consequences and results (based on stats) create the RPG.
Doublethink working out well for you, I see.Solik said:
I don't see why an RPG ought to be a combat simulator, or stealth simulator either, but apparently Bethesda thinks that's relevant.
Solik
Scholar
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2006
- Messages
- 377
Don't be thick. Being nothing more than a sign that some guy is going to die is a far cry from being a chosen one destined to save the world. You're not even the catalyst of his death; you just happened to be there in the cell on the night of his death.Claw said:
Okay. Please explain to me how that's relevant to this discussion?Claw said:
Ok, ok, you got me here. You, indeed, can have a semi-decent RPG with no dialogue... but that would require "And a reactive society with different fractions and outcomes", at the very least, and that would still be lacking in some areas, like ability to personalize one's philosophy.
After all, social element is DO play a huge role both in games and RL - unless you wanna RP a hermit... but same goes for 'RPing italian plumber in Mario'.
Oh, and absolute most roguelikes are, exactly, Action-RPGs of today.
Nethack == Diablo. Those can be very fun to play, but as an RPG... well, select few like, say, ADOM can be rather good in roleplaying aspect, but mostly they are not.
However, I think that more roguelike are closer to RPGs then Actions-RPGs - due to textual nature, they can (and, usually, do) sport a lot of detail that greatly helps with immersion and roleplaying.
When it comes to Action-rpgs, it's mostly hack&slash. RPGays, heh.
Exactly. Its worth repeating that a good roleplaying game should allow to roleplay not only professional roles that determine what you can do and how, but also roleplay personality roles(awkward term, I know) and social roles. Being able to throw ropes around, climb walls, move torches, destroy terrain and buildings, build bridges, swim, dig holes and tunnels, traps and locks, etc. is great, of course, but they define only one side of a character. Personality and social roles usually require social interaction and Dialogs. How can you define personality through dialogue options:Balor said:
"My trade"
"Daedra Attack"
Human Shield
Augur
Or you are trapped alone somewhere with monsters (like another planet for years) and have to roleplay your own sanity. With your mind creating fake persons and mumbling conversations to yourself.
Could have good dialog without needing reactions beyond yourself. Would be cool game.
Could have good dialog without needing reactions beyond yourself. Would be cool game.
Human Shield
Augur
Chefe said:
If you don't want to discuss then shut up.
Elwro
Arcane
And in all proper languages the word contains "r". ("Frakcja" etc.)
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