Best thread ever.

[SanguinePenguin]

Deathclaw on LOLLERSK8S

 

[kingcomrade]

You're right, there's nothing more homoerotic on the planet than taking derivatives.

 

[Levski 1912]

They'll do away with dialog trees for FO 3 and call it "moving the series forward". Don't tell me I didn't warn you!

 

[kingcomrade]

Talking Deathclaw on LOLLERSK8S

I think we've been over this

 

[Fresh]

Huff. What is this thread about? Someone summarize it in 20 words or less.

 

[Levski 1912]

Huff. What is this thread about? Someone summarize it in 20 words or less.

Finding asinine topics over at the ESF and posting them here for the enjoyment of all.

 

[Fresh]

Aight, this one's pretty asinine:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=240201

"Fun tricks in Oblivion!, that you would like to try out"

Create a pillow fortress and run into it to knock them all down. Repeat.

Oh god, can we do that? There goes a few hours of my life...

LOL I DID THAT I MW!!!!!!

This is a really constructive thread and a huge gust of fresh air from what these boards have been like in the past little while.......

lol

YAY!!!!

 

[Rat Keeng]

Oblivion would be sweet if you could make wicked cool Rube Goldberg machines and involve them with traps and puzzles and such. Hell, who knows, you might be able to put something like it together in the construction set, that'd be pretty funny.

In all honesty though, killing sheep and stealing from people is all together much more fun and rewarding to do in the real world.

 

[galsiah]

"Fun tricks in Oblivion!, that you would like to try out"

Pretty bad, but I find the following more depressing:
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=241506

i would be really mad if there wasnt some kind of an exploit, because tes games are about choice... and if you want to be invinsible you should be able to.

And the wonderful:

If you go looking for them, there are always going to be game-breaking exploits that you can abuse. The problem is not game design, because a game can't be made that has none of these. It's with you. Don't become a god if you don't want to - it's as easy as that.

That's right. Morrowind was broken in so many ways, so it must be impossible to make a game that isn't broken.

I'm hoping that they do make some way to become really strong really fast. For the people who don't want to play that way, don't. No one said you have to take advantage of every little quirk. But it's good to have the option for those who want it.

I love this line of reasoning:
Putting the most powerful weapons and unlimited gold in the first room is not bad game design. It is FREEDOM. If you don't want them, don't pick them up. That's what roleplaying is about.

TES roleplay:
1. To make a series of restrictive, out of character decisions to avoid exploiting the broken mechanics and terrible balance of badly designed games.
2. Making all decisions based on the goal of keeping stats to a character archetype. Importantly, a character's personality / desires / ambitions etc. should never be considered - only his long term stats. Performing actions outside the archetype should be avoided at all times. Spontaneity, individuality and practicality are dirty words.

Many RPGs in the past have lacked challenge in both 1. and 2. above. Some are well balanced and lack broken game mechanics. Others keep a character's stats loosely based on his class automatically.

Morrowind carefully avoided both these pitfalls. Broken game mechanics were everywhere, and balance was almost unobtainable. Keeping any character from becoming a dull master of all trades was an ongoing battle. Players rarely needed to waste time getting into character. Fighting the game mechanics was always involving.

Some say that Oblivion is being dumbed down in this area. There are rumours of exploit removal, balance, and even "design". Supposedly, constraining a character to an archetype is no longer very difficult: the skill learning curves have changed. Apparently, all traditional archetypes have been made playable, effectively removing the challenge of keeping character stats in check.

Critics suggest that this abandonment of true TES values is an insult to fans. With the core gameplay elements removed, Oblivion players might be forced to spend time thinking in character, making character decisions and enjoying a rich game world.

Personally, I have faith in the Devs. I'm sure Oblivion will live up to the standard set by Morrowind - perhaps it'll go one better. To roleplay in Oblivion is sure to be a genuine challenge. It wouldn't surprise me if it is almost impossible.

 

[Section8]

Haha, nice one Galsiah.

 

[Data4]

About Exploits, I always had a problem with people bitching about console exploits, and how Oblivion should not have any kind of console at all. The reason being is I understand modders use the console to test, tweak, and debug mods. For that matter, the developers used it, too. Having a God mode means that a developer or modder can look at an area and check for problems without the hassle of having to avoid monsters and such.

I dunno... it seems like those with less willpower are trying to get Bethesda to fix their problem at the detriment of others who may have a more legitimate reason to use the console.

-D4

 

[Klinn]

About Exploits, I always had a problem with people bitching about console exploits, and how Oblivion should not have any kind of console at all.

Or others who insist that the Construction Set itself should be eliminated, since you can just go in there and make yourself a Mighty Sword of Kill-All and then breeze through the game. Yeah, that's the only possible use folks might have for the Con Set...

Edit: I started a little thread over on the TES forums speculating that battling those unkillable quest NPCs might provide quicker skill advancement than the usual training dummies or training with Masters, and therefore might be a game exploit. Many people who replied of course ignored the part where I suggested that this was another good reason why killing quest NPCs should have more serious consequences than having them take a little nap.

 

[Pr()ZaC]

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=241917

 

[LlamaGod]

Piranha Bytes apparently has the magic capabilities to create those oh so hard dual-wielding animations that Worm "hey guys look at my car really look at it isnt it cool" God cant produce

They removed dual weapons because most games use dual weilding, and Bethesda always goes above and beyond in their games, and they didn't want to be accused of "dumbing down" the game by including dueal-weilds.

o rite

 

[kingcomrade]

Yeah nothing is dumber than "dueal-weilds" which are in just too many games these days. Everyone knows that most games use crappy conventions (o wait...) and that what makes you 2 kool 4 skool is bucking convention. Oblivion is goth, and goth is another word for cool.

 

[Thrawn05]

I don't remember duel weilding in daggerfall. Was there?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Equipping 2 weapons - yes
Actual mechanics - no

 

[Thrawn05]

Equipping 2 weapons - yes
Actual mechanics - no

Ah! Okay. I guess it's to switch weapons in combat or somthing. Sounds silly though, I rather just have a shield then.

 

[galsiah]

About Exploits, I always had a problem with people bitching about console exploits, and how Oblivion should not have any kind of console at all.

That's completely true - the console is an indispensable modding tool. Anyone who considers the console an exploit is idiotic.

The console is in no sense part of the game world, or the player's interface into the game world. "Exploiting" through the console is just like entering a cheat code. If players want to do that, then fine. If they don't, then don't - increasing my character's skills through the console never even occurred to me: the console is not part of the game.

The problem is where the same attitude is applied to in game actions - e.g. don't pick up the uber sword if you want the game to be balanced; don't rip off stupid merchants; don't cast spell combinations which happen to boost your skills more than they "should"; don't steal anything; don't preferentially improve certain skills to improve related attributes...

All these restrict a character's actions in the game world. They are examples of bad balance and broken design which need to be fixed. Not using the console has nothing to do with character action or the game world, so is not a roleplaying restriction. The other examples are. Fanboy folk that can't tell the difference probably haven't got a clue what roleplaying is: they have no idea of a distinction between player and character, so using the console seems like just another game mechanic.

Perhaps it is hard (but not impossible) to eliminate all exploits. I don't necessarily expect that. I do expect a lot of effort to go in that direction though. With Morrowind it is rather difficult to believe that a lot of time was spent on balance or exploit prevention / removal. Eliminating all the imbalances and exploits at the end of the project would have taken a long time, it's true. That's why it is important not to start from a poor design in the first place.

Looking at the design document should have told anyone who thought about it that:
The alchemy system is unbalanced and game breaking.
The trade system is unbalanced, and positively encourages absurd actions.
The attribute increase / levelling system is unbalancing and encourages absurd actions.

Half the design of Morrowind looks like it was done with a "hack it together and hope for the best" mentality. Perhaps alchemy, trade and character progression were considered minor issues - that the detail could be filled in later. When imbalance in these areas breaks the game, they become major issues. Either these issues were thought about too late in the project, or they weren't considered in detail at all. Either way the design sucks.

 

[El Dee]

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=242419&st=0

They have finally run out of topics, and have resorted to this.

 

[kingcomrade]

I believe pets are out...but the random hound taking a liking to your leg...hmm...doubt it. But then again those Bethesda peeps are wild and crazy...might be an "easter egg"

Ya those Beth peeps r 2 kool 4 skool.

Best thread ever.

totaly

 

[LlamaGod]

This thread is pretty fun

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... 2296&st=60

People making bum excuses and trying to defend forced combat in RPGs, it's quite funny trying to see TES Boards folks trying to discuss game design.

It reminds me of those late night show segments, where they go around the public and ask people simple questions and the morons get it wrong or can't figure it out, except this time you're writing down a design idea or theory and throwing it inbetween 10 of those idiots and watching them debate over it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=242660

Can anyone come up with a good way to role play as an Argonian? I can't

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Is quoting TES forums the only thing left to amuse yourselves? Yes there are idiots there. Yes, there are idiots here. What's the point?

 

[whitemithrandir]

Is quoting TES forums the only thing left to amuse yourselves? Yes there are idiots there. Yes, there are idiots here. What's the point?

See, they can't make fun of us over there are TES because those threads get locked, but we can do it to them here, which further proves how much bigger our dicks are compared to those limp bastards at TES.