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Bethesda NEVER Understood Fallout

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I think the one I worked at have operating temperature of 800 - 1200 degree Celcius which is impossible in post-apocalyptic world of fallout.
A coal forge can reach ~1,900°C.

A forge is pretty much a direct firing furnace. Cement is made in kiln, a rotating cylinder of 15 meter. And cement is not made by direct heating of the cylinder/kiln through furnace because it will cause uneven heat distribution. Instead you are flowing hot air into the rotating cylinder + a gas + fine coal fired furnace on the opposite end of the cylinder. It requires precise temperature control during material input which move towards the gas fired furnace. The different "zone" along the cylinder with different temperature profile propagates different chemical reaction. Klin is also supported with certain inclination (I forgot how much degree) which, with the RPM of the cylinder, dictates the flow speed of material along the cylinder which with the aforementioned temperature zone allows the material to correctly progress through reaction.

Not to mention the pre-treatment of raw material to separate CO2 component from the Ca.CO3 (Limestone). Not to mention the grinding process of limestone, mixing the with mud, and additional component to give sufficient mineral to create industrial cement.
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
I think the one I worked at have operating temperature of 800 - 1200 degree Celcius which is impossible in post-apocalyptic world of fallout.
A coal forge can reach ~1,900°C.

A forge is pretty much a direct firing furnace. Cement is made in kiln, a rotating cylinder of 15 meter. And cement is not made by direct heating of the cylinder/kiln through furnace because it will cause uneven heat distribution. Instead you are flowing hot air into the rotating cylinder + a gas + fine coal fired furnace on the opposite end of the cylinder. It requires precise temperature control during material input which move towards the gas fired furnace. The different "zone" along the cylinder with different temperature profile propagates different chemical reaction. Klin is also supported with certain inclination (I forgot how much degree) which, with the RPM of the cylinder, dictates the flow speed of material along the cylinder which with the aforementioned temperature zone allows the material to correctly progress through reaction.

Not to mention the pre-treatment of raw material to separate CO2 component from the Ca.CO3 (Limestone). Not to mention the grinding process of limestone, mixing the with mud, and additional component to give sufficient mineral to create industrial cement.
If only the Romans had modern construction techniques, their bridges that are still standing would have fallen before their empire :M
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I think the one I worked at have operating temperature of 800 - 1200 degree Celcius which is impossible in post-apocalyptic world of fallout.
A coal forge can reach ~1,900°C.

A forge is pretty much a direct firing furnace. Cement is made in kiln, a rotating cylinder of 15 meter. And cement is not made by direct heating of the cylinder/kiln through furnace because it will cause uneven heat distribution. Instead you are flowing hot air into the rotating cylinder + a gas + fine coal fired furnace on the opposite end of the cylinder. It requires precise temperature control during material input which move towards the gas fired furnace. The different "zone" along the cylinder with different temperature profile propagates different chemical reaction. Klin is also supported with certain inclination (I forgot how much degree) which, with the RPM of the cylinder, dictates the flow speed of material along the cylinder which with the aforementioned temperature zone allows the material to correctly progress through reaction.

Not to mention the pre-treatment of raw material to separate CO2 component from the Ca.CO3 (Limestone). Not to mention the grinding process of limestone, mixing the with mud, and additional component to give sufficient mineral to create industrial cement.
If only the Romans had modern construction techniques, their bridges that are still standing would have fallen before their empire :M

I've conceded above that you can use primitive mortars for building, including mixing limesone + mud and letting them cure through the sun.

But your point that modern furnace is 1900 degree is regarding my initial comment regarding production of modern cement is dumb.
 

laclongquan

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Fallout Tactics is underrated as fuck. I liked it. It's better than all the Bethesda ones.

It's also the best-looking Fallout game, IMO. Has a slightly sharper look than Fallout 1-2, while retaining the same aesthetic sense.


1-BOS_2014-12-15_20-05-10-227.jpg

It's a great Fallout game with shitty gameplay added for some reason.

It's actually a shit Fallout game with... well, decent gameplay.
Nobody would have cared about it if it didn't have the Fallout name, though.

FUCK YOU!! FTBOS is a great game with great gameplay. Stories is actually windows-dressing though.

If you remove Fallout story elements in it, there would have been no difference. Possibly a big improvement though, as devs can just announce from the start a "perfect spritual successor" to Jagged Alliance 2, in stead of Fallout brand.
 

hexer

Guest
I'm probably one of the more autistic Fallout BIS fans here, so I'll give my 2 cents.

We are still waiting for Bethesda to introduce some new and original main story to the Fallout setting.
Fallout 3, 4 and 76 were either remixes of the classics or "inspired" by ideas made way back in Black Isle Studios.

Fallout 3 is a remix of Fallout 1 and 2.
Fallout 4 is based on a discarded idea for Fallout 2's main story.
Fallout 76 is based on Van Buren.

And speaking of the exact topic, here is Boyarsky himself saying Bethesda didn't get Fallout's world

 
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JDR13

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I'm probably one of the more autistic Fallout BIS fans here, so I'll give my 2 cents.

We are still waiting for Bethesda to introduce some new and original main story to the Fallout setting.
Fallout 3, 4 and 76 were either remixes of the classics or "inspired" by ideas made way back in Black Isle Studios.

Fallout 3 is a remix of Fallout 1 and 2.
Fallout 4 is based on a discarded idea for Fallout 2's main story.
Fallout 76 is based on Van Buren.

Story is far from being the main issue with Bethesda's Fallouts.
 
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In defense of Shamus Young, he has been criticizing Fallout 3 since, what, 2008? Most of you weren't even registered here back when, so back off.

I think one of the biggest things Bethesda didn't get from Fallout, is that Fallout is NOT post-apocalyptic.

Its actually post-post apocalyptic. One could it was before the term was invented.

Its about people picking up after the disaster and creating new societies, not people dealing with the disaster's aftermath.

Even in 1, the Great War was this ancient cataclysmic event.

So you get things like pre-war loot laying around in easily-found and easily-pillaged areas, when one of the main assumptions in the originals, is that by the time the games roll around, everything in easy reach has already been long scavenged. Pre-War Salvage is limited to big, dangerous pre-war ruins like Necropolis and the Boneyard, inhospitable hell-holes like The Glow, isolated facilities like the Vaults, or pre-war facilities still containing working security, like Sierra Army Depot.

In Bethesda Fallouts, you're mainly walking around, treking out, going into ruins and such, exploring and finding things. In Black Isle Fallouts, most of your playtime is probably in cities doing quests, or the few dungeons.

3 would make a lot more sense if it was placed 10-30 years after the Great War.

Honestly, I think one of the problems of 3 is how dull it is. Its banally easy, and after level 9 or so, you are pretty much invincible. Then it becomes a game of trekking through mostly boring dungeons, to get loot you don't really need, to fight enemies that are too pathetic to matter. When a Enclave Trooper is met with a "Meh", you know something is wrong. The dialogue and story don't capture the attention. The gameplay is boring because you are eventually invencible.
 

Curious_Tongue

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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Serpent in the Staglands Codex USB, 2014
I think one of the biggest things Bethesda didn't get from Fallout, is that Fallout is NOT post-apocalyptic.
They originally wanted to do a post-apoc world. Todd Howard realised that the Fallout games, with their 50s retro settings, were perfect. He asked someone if they could buy the rights for a Fallout game from Interplay, and that's how they end up making Fallout 3. As an afterthought.
 

Butter

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There's a huge number of Bethestards who've convinced themselves that the only thing wrong with FO4 was its dialogue. The bar really isn't that high for FO5.
 

hexer

Guest
I do wonder, tho - where they go next? Fallout 4 is considered underwhelming (especially compared to FNV) by part of their own fanbase, and then 76 was a total disaster.

Right now, it feels like the franchise is dead.

Maybe Bethesda's mishandling cheapens the brand enough and Obsidian uses the M$ cash to buy the IP off them. Maybe!

 

Quillon

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Maybe Bethesda's mishandling cheapens the brand enough and Obsidian uses the M$ cash to buy the IP off them. Maybe!

Once upon a time that could have been a good thing. Now it wouldn't matter whether greedy bugthesda keeps milking it or wokesidian makes another uninspired safe entry to it.
 
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There's a huge number of Bethestards who've convinced themselves that the only thing wrong with FO4 was its dialogue. The bar really isn't that high for FO5.

Yeah, the number of Bethesdrones still surprises me, but the 76 disaster really wiped out a lot of goodwill.

Still, I find it surprising how many fags are still waiting for TES VI. Like, game doesn't even a FUCKING SUBTITLE, or anything to it, really, and yet they already think its going to be teh shit.

The bar really isn't that high for FO5.
The bar is pretty much set at "have mod tools"
That's what set FO76 and FO4 apart, really.

Its surprising how many sins get forgotten because "modability". So Bethesda games are moddable? Big whoop, so are Paradox games. Yet, it didn't the Pdox fanbase from tearing Paradox a new one over the mess that was Imperator, or how the Stellaris fanbase is pretty much in open revolt because its 2020 and Stellaris still has shit performance and Paradox's engagement with the fanbase has been super-underwhelming thus far.

Then again, we are talking console peasantry here. They are dumb, very dumb.

I do wonder, tho - where they go next? Fallout 4 is considered underwhelming (especially compared to FNV) by part of their own fanbase, and then 76 was a total disaster.

Right now, it feels like the franchise is dead.

Maybe Bethesda's mishandling cheapens the brand enough and Obsidian uses the M$ cash to buy the IP off them. Maybe!




Not sure I would want 2020s Obsidian with their hands on Fallout. 2010s Obsidian, sure.

Then again, they got Tim and Leo now...
 
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Codex Year of the Donut
Its surprising how many sins get forgotten because "modability". So Bethesda games are moddable? Big whoop, so are Paradox games. Yet, it didn't the Pdox fanbase from tearing Paradox a new one over the mess that was Imperator, or how the Stellaris fanbase is pretty much in open revolt because its 2020 and Stellaris still has shit performance and Paradox's engagement with the fanbase has been super-underwhelming thus far.

Then again, we are talking console peasantry here. They are dumb, very dumb.
The problem is that despite how shitty bethesda's games are, there really aren't any games that fill the same niche.
e.g., If Elex released a mod toolkit it would probably have some really awesome content now.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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3 would make a lot more sense if it was placed 10-30 years after the Great War.
Fallout 3 is internally inconsistent about its chronology, with many aspects of the setting seeming to implicitly place themselves 2, 20, or about 60 years following the nuclear conclusion of the Great War, rather than the 200 years that is always explicitly stated. :M For example, edible packaged food lying around in supermarkets (2 years), an abandoned attempt to de-radiate the region's water supply (20 years), or the backstory of Rivet City (60 years), are just a few of many chronological inconsistencies.
 
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Bethesda understands how to market a game and make money. Had they made a Fallout 3 in the style of the earlier games, it probably would not have sold as well. From their perspective, Bethesda knows Fallout very well- they were the ones redefined it.

Well this video isn't arguing they don't understand Fallout because they made a FPS and Fallout was a turn based tactical "isometric" game. They're talking about aesthetics, and how the world of Fallout in the original games wasn't trapped in the '50 like in the new games.

Although in 2008 I wouldn't be surprised if a Fallout 3 that had combat more along the lines of the original games would have sold just as well, especially given how the real time combat of Fallout 3 was so terrible using VATS was about the only way to fight anything.

I don't think Bethesda actually does understand what their audience wants, and that much of their success has just kind of been something they lucked into. Open world games explode with GTA3 in 2001, and their Elder Scrolls and later Fallout games filled a niche in the market that weirdly nobody ever really tried filling, (fantasy and futuristic sci-fi) and had enough new, (like being first person...although their wants third person too) different, (stats) and novel things (being able to move everything around) to make it stand out. Like, I do think it interesting the game that made them first hit big was Morrowind, and just putting it on the consoles with the original Xbox, but despite that they've still dropped things about that game did that people liked.

They do understand how to market their games however. Or more simply put, they market their games, they're like one of the few video game companies that actually run ads on tv.
 
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The bar really isn't that high for FO5.
The bar is pretty much set at "have mod tools"
That's what set FO76 and FO4 apart, really.

Its surprising how many sins get forgotten because "modability". So Bethesda games are moddable? Big whoop, so are Paradox games. Yet, it didn't the Pdox fanbase from tearing Paradox a new one over the mess that was Imperator, or how the Stellaris fanbase is pretty much in open revolt because its 2020 and Stellaris still has shit performance and Paradox's engagement with the fanbase has been super-underwhelming thus far.

Then again, we are talking console peasantry here. They are dumb, very dumb.

It's like you forgot what you were talking about. "Mods will fix it" isn't exactly something the console players say.

I do wonder, tho - where they go next? Fallout 4 is considered underwhelming (especially compared to FNV) by part of their own fanbase, and then 76 was a total disaster.

Right now, it feels like the franchise is dead.

Maybe Bethesda's mishandling cheapens the brand enough and Obsidian uses the M$ cash to buy the IP off them. Maybe!



That would never happen. Also they own Wasteland now. If they want to do Fallout stuff they can just do it under the Wasteland brand. Microsoft also has other stuff they just don't use anymore that they could have them make RPGs or whatever with like Shadowrun, MechWarrior, and Crimson Skies.
 
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Stella Brando

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Let's all clap and cheer that the random Youtube Man made a video about a topic we all know, agree with, and have discussed a thousand times over with more depth than any moron on youtube could muster.

I thought it was interesting. When I was a kid I had a friend who played Fallout, but I also had friends who played Baldur's Gate, and maybe the Codex would say I fell in with a bad crowd (but I have no regrets). I was a Daggerfall girl, myself.

I went back and played Fallout as an adult, but that's really not the same.
 
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