Bioshock Infinite - the $200 million 6 hour literally on rails interactive movie with guns thread

[Regdar]

TRU DEPTH is observing that the whole Bioshock series is based around this central conceit whereby helpless, oppressed young girls / women - Little Sisters in B:1, Eleanor in B:2, Elizabeth in B:I - are saved by their 'father figure' who sacrifice themselves to save said 'daughters' from another parent, who is not necessarily female but is always psychopathic / dysfunctional.

B:1

Daughter Figure: Little Sisters
Father Figure: You
Dysfunctional Parent: Big Daddies and Frank Fontaine, ultimately, because he was the one who created the Little Sisters

B:2

Daughter Figure: Eleanor
Father Figure: You
Dysfunctional Parent: Sophia Lamb

B:I

Daughter Figure: Elizabeth
Father Figure: You
Dysfunctional Parent: Comstack / You In Teh Past

All three stories are ultimately about the redemption of the institution of fatherhood through the sacrifice of the protagonist, who is always male, and who competes with a dysfunctional parent, who fakes being a parent but is revealed to be a manipulative psychopath, for a female child / children.

The first game had the best plot because it had a subversion of the 'father - daughter' conceit in the later games, despite having come before those games, through the figure of Andrew Ryan. That is to say, the game made you think it was about a 'father - son' relationship even though at the end of the day, Ryan was only played as a fake final boss. Still, TRU DEPTH for observing that after witnessing the sacrifice of Andrew Ryan, you ascend to the position of actual fatherhood over the Little Sisters, sort of as a reflexive of having witnessed Jack's 'father figure' showing by example what 'paternal sacrifice' is. In the end, your 'redeem' the institution of fatherhood and is rewarded for it on your death bed. Failure to do so - by choosing the 'other' choice - leads to a lame ending that's basically tacked on.

In the other two games, the conceit is played straight and there's only minor twists.

 

[Zewp]

Everyone exaggerating this game on both sides is making themselves look emotional and silly. It's not horrible, nor is it amazing. It's not incline, but it's certainly not decline compared to most modern shooters.

It just is. Stop the weird personal grudges and emotional reactions.

It's definitely decline compared to Bioshock 1 and 2. Gameplay-wise at least.

 

[Zewp]

The two Battlefield games' singleplayer is just like CoD and total shit.

Err, no. Bad Company 2 actually had pretty passable SP. BF3 is the one that had complete shit as a SP campaign.

 

[DalekFlay]

It's definitely decline compared to Bioshock 1 and 2. Gameplay-wise at least.

I agree. The dual-wielding is nice compared to 1's switching-off, though. As I wrote before 2 had the best combat overall I think, but also poor level design compared to 1.

There's a great game in there somewhere if you combine the best parts of all three.

 

[aris]

Nope, SP only. They were all much better SP games than B:I.

The two Battlefield games' singleplayer is just like CoD and total shit. Singularity is about the same as Bioshock, I enjoyed that game a lot but it's about on par with the original. DX:HR and Dishonored are not the same genre. The rest are better than Infinite, I agree.

In the end though my point is idiots keep acting like the game is ten times worse than it is to sound cool while simultaneously mocking people who act like it's ten times better than it is to sound cool. They're both extremes and emotional responses, they both sound stupid.

It's another Bioshock, prettier but more linear, better than most modern shooters but not as good as *insert classic here* or *insert modern incline here*.

Dude that's how tools gather KKK and how hipsters show that they are hipsters.

They are mostly hipsters though: "ARGH! EVERYBODY LOVES THIS GAME, BUT IT IS MAINSTRAEM! THEREFORE I MUST HATE IT". This is what it boils down to, many people have pretty much spelled this out throughout this thread too.

 

[Zewp]

What if I simply don't like it? I really, honestly find very little redeeming factors about this game. It's really a mediocre game at best. The whole multi-dimension thing was also incredibly derp. Multiple dimensions have always been the domain of mediocre sci-fi.

 

[pocahaunted]

Oh boy, you keep coming back with HIPSTERS!!!1 Arguments have been presented, if you disagree with them, that's fine, but stop trying to make consecutive ad hominem attacks. It merely highlights how retarded your stance is. What kind of stupid logic is that, "everybody loves this game"? It's clearly not true, even on reddit and similarly minded circles.

Do you honestly believe people give a shit about being edgy towards a random SP game just because? Don't you get it? Some people actually believe the game is bad, live with it. Stop trying to frame your poor taste or stop caring about something so trivial.

In fact, you're so caught up in this that you're one of the only pleople in this discussion that has time and time again resorted to ad hominem attacks to defend this game. Open your eyes, it's not the hipsters, it's your bias that reeks.

 

[RK47]

OK guys, nice rehearsal for Battlefield 4 launch.



Let's do this again later this year.

 

[aris]

Oh boy, you keep coming back with HIPSTERS!!!1 Arguments have been presented, if you disagree with them, that's fine, but stop trying to make consecutive ad hominem attacks. It merely highlights how retarded your stance is. What kind of stupid logic is that, "everybody loves this game"? It's clearly not true, even on reddit and similarly minded circles.

Do you honestly believe people give a shit about being edgy towards a random SP game just because? Don't you get it? Some people actually believe the game is bad, live with it. Stop trying to frame your poor taste or stop caring about something so trivial.

In fact, you're so caught up in this that you're one of the only pleople in this discussion that has time and time again resorted to ad hominem attacks to defend this game. Open your eyes, it's not the hipsters, it's your bias that reeks.

Who said I was talking about you? I said many people have pretty much spelled this out, and they have. You're being oh so defensive. And yeah, there are definitely people on this thread that are edgy towards it, that wouldn't otherwise care, if it hadn't enjoyed such a huge success. There is simply no doubt about it. It's no coincidence that we are 69 pages in on this thread by now.

Stop trying to frame your poor taste

The bad taste of the masses you mean? By the way, pssst, this is an ad hominem attack.

stop caring about something so trivial.

You're the one wasting time talking pages and pages writing about a game you didn't like, and which it seemed to me that you had no emotional connection to in the first place.

 

[DalekFlay]

I don't doubt the genuine dislike. Hundreds of well-reviewed and popular games are shit to me. It's the over-the-top "this game is worthless garbage no one could ever find enjoyment in and just as bad as Call of Duty" emotional hissy-fit that amuses me. And no, of course that does not apply to everyone who dislikes the game in this thread.

Anyway, 70 pages later and some people liked the game for what it was and some people think it's shit and the world keeps rotating.

 

[pocahaunted]

Oh boy, you keep coming back with HIPSTERS!!!1 Arguments have been presented, if you disagree with them, that's fine, but stop trying to make consecutive ad hominem attacks. It merely highlights how retarded your stance is. What kind of stupid logic is that, "everybody loves this game"? It's clearly not true, even on reddit and similarly minded circles.

Do you honestly believe people give a shit about being edgy towards a random SP game just because? Don't you get it? Some people actually believe the game is bad, live with it. Stop trying to frame your poor taste or stop caring about something so trivial.

In fact, you're so caught up in this that you're one of the only pleople in this discussion that has time and time again resorted to ad hominem attacks to defend this game. Open your eyes, it's not the hipsters, it's your bias that reeks.

Who said I was talking about you? I said many people have pretty much spelled this out, and they have. You're being oh so defensive. And yeah, there are definitely people on this thread that are edgy towards it, that wouldn't otherwise care, if it hadn't enjoyed such a huge success. There is simply no doubt about it. It's no coincidence that we are 69 pages in on this thread by now.

Stop trying to frame your poor taste

The bad taste of the masses you mean? By the way, pssst, this is an ad hominem attack.

stop caring about something so trivial.

You're the one wasting time talking pages and pages writing about a game you didn't like, and which it seemed to me that you had no emotional connection to in the first place.

Hur dur, deflection GOOD! That's no proof, controversy stems from the fact that it's been praised as a masterpiece by some, hardly an unanimous conclusion, which fosters discussion.

No shit it's an ad hominem attack, you've stopped discussing the game a while back and just pop in occasionally to post ridiculous and insulting drivel. Since that's the kind of discussion you want, there you have it. Don't you get it? Claiming detractors are hipsters is just as valid as claiming the opposite, that those who liked the game have shit taste - i.e. not valid at all.

Unlike you I enjoy discussing games, whether I love them or not. It doesn't take a gargantuan effort or any sort of emotional bond, it's entertaining in it's own right and doesn't fall under wasting time any more than any other activity in the fucking Codex. What kind of retarded point is that? Am I mandated to stay silent unless it's something I enjoy? Ridiculous.

 

[aris]

Ok, enough with this meta discussion. Let me go back to what I previously said: I said those who are tools and hipsters (not all), hate on it because it is mainstraem!!11. That doesn't mean everyone, doesn't mean you can't voice your opinion. Now carry on.

 

[Regdar]

So let me get this straight: while there is a general consensus among all educated people that everything mainstream is shit because attempting to appeal to the largest demographic inevitably degrades things like creativity and innovation, disliking the mainstream is bad because then you're a hipster? #doubleplusgood

 

[Comrade Goby]

Why such a huge thread on Jewish multicultural Marxist propaganda?

Remember, being white is evil!

 

[aris]

So let me get this straight: while there is a general consensus among all educated people that everything mainstream is shit because attempting to appeal to the largest demographic inevitably degrades things like creativity and innovation, disliking the mainstream is bad because then you're a hipster? #doubleplusgood

That's the hipster philosophy in a nutshell.

First of all, there are many many examples of works in art that have been mainstream as well as regarded as masterworks in creativity and innovation, it doesn't have to come from a basement by some random unknown guy. Furthermore, disliking a product that is mainstream is one thing, and completely legit. Disliking a product solely because it is mainstream is hipsterism.

 

[Regdar]

That's the hipster philosophy in a nutshell.

First of all, there are many many examples of works in art that have been mainstream as well as regarded as masterworks in creativity and innovation, it doesn't have to come from a basement by some random unknown guy. Furthermore, disliking a product that is mainstream is one thing, and completely legit. Disliking a product solely because it is mainstream is hipsterism.

I think that if you view the Codex as a subculture where trashing mainstream games is the norm for whatever reason, then people going against that groupthink by defending the mainstream or aspects of it would find themselves in a niche not unlike the hipsters of the larger culture. It all boils down to fanboyism and emotions and frankly if you strip away both Bioshock is like Call of Duty wearing lensless glasses.

 

[retardation]

Has anyone tried jumping on Elizabeth's head? It seems they implemented a system that forces the player off her head if you jump on it.

 

[DalekFlay]

So let me get this straight: while there is a general consensus among all educated people that everything mainstream is shit because attempting to appeal to the largest demographic inevitably degrades things like creativity and innovation, disliking the mainstream is bad because then you're a hipster? #doubleplusgood

Oh c'mon man, tons of mainstream entertainment is quality art. Fucking Alien, off the top of my head.

 

[evdk]

_

Apt username.

 

[aris]

 

[Angthoron]

Has anyone tried jumping on Elizabeth's head? It seems they implemented a system that forces the player off her head if you jump on it.

I guess you can't persuade her to...


...give you head!

 

[HanoverF]

Hipsters are the guys who say things like they liked System Shock 2 before it went gold.

 

[Lyric Suite]

That doesn't make sense because hipsters wouldn't even know of the existence of a System Shock 2. Hipsters are against the mainstream only in terms of image, not actual substance.

 

[Direwolf]

Nope, SP only. They were all much better SP games than B:I.

The two Battlefield games' singleplayer is just like CoD and total shit. Singularity is about the same as Bioshock, I enjoyed that game a lot but it's about on par with the original. DX:HR and Dishonored are not the same genre. The rest are better than Infinite, I agree.

In the end though my point is idiots keep acting like the game is ten times worse than it is to sound cool while simultaneously mocking people who act like it's ten times better than it is to sound cool. They're both extremes and emotional responses, they both sound stupid.

It's another Bioshock, prettier but more linear, better than most modern shooters but not as good as *insert classic here* or *insert modern incline here*.

Dude that's how tools gather KKK and how hipsters show that they are hipsters.

They are mostly hipsters though: "ARGH! EVERYBODY LOVES THIS GAME, BUT IT IS MAINSTRAEM! THEREFORE I MUST HATE IT". This is what it boils down to, many people have pretty much spelled this out throughout this thread too.

Nah, I don't hate it because it is mainstream, I hate it because it is shit. I had to download a smaller size rip of it and I still feel ripped off. I wasted about 3 hours on it and that's time I will never get back.

 

[Dexter]

Okay, so I finally managed to play through it and here are my thoughts:

- Game is very linear (a lot more linear than Bioshock 1 or even 2 seemed to be)

- This especially manifests in less open/interact able levels than in the first two games (it's basically a straight path forward with a few side rooms every now and then, less of them as the game seems to progress). The only level that slightly reminded me of the previous games was Downtown Emporia, which I explored entirely and then the game ended up railroading me to every single location anyway.

While you had maps with different complexes, entire floors etc. to navigate in Bioshock:

Spoiler

You don't even need a map in Infinite, since it is THAT straightforward in what objective you have and how to get there.

Similarly, there are barely any puzzles or hidden secrets like in Bioshock, where you had to use plasmids to de-ice doors and corridors to get through, use lightning to open locks, use telekinesis to remove obstructions or manipulate stuff (and had to backtrack quite a lot when you got a new power that seemed useful and discover new parts of previous levels), I also remember having to find out door and safe codes (from recordings or hidden somewhere) or shoot through a window into a locked room at something to open a door and similar. It reminded me a lot more of System Shock 2, Bioshock: Infinite was akin your usual corridor-shooter. The only real "puzzles" were during the "Hall of Heroes" part and another one in the graveyard, and they were rather lame ones e.g. "use lightning to power generator right in front of door to open" about three times and a mechanically broken seeming one.
You also had more stuff to do in the previous Bioshocks, from the recurring stealth elements, to taking pictures for research to the Hacking (although the mini-game wasn't exactly beloved).

- The game is also very different from what they had originally shown off, if anyone still remembers this I posted earlier:


Generally with a lot of things on the technical side I thought about how much more awesome this could have been if it was designed and released on "Next Gen" instead of this generation of consoles, since I presume that a lot of the changes and restrictions stem from there. Objects didn't seem destructible to the same degree as shown above and "physics effects" were generally missing or toned down (no breaking vases, objects don't react to vigors as shown, cloth and plants aren't moving at the same level of detail), fire and smoke-effects aren't of the same quality, levels ended up being much smaller than what was prototyped (tears also seem to be playing a lesser part in the gameplay than alluded to with the horse choice) and a lot of textures and objects etc. looked rather "flat".

The overall art design of Columbia is great, but when you look at a fruit basket or a bunch of flowers and it's just a texture with 3 separate fruits laid on top of it, that feels kind of meh. Bioshock (at the time it came out) was technologically rather well off with its water effects and lighting. This one seemed inferior and a step back from what it had achieved in various aspects (although the art design elements and diversity of some of the stuff included especially in the early levels was superb).

- After the short beginning ending with Battleship Bay (in which it was an alright to pretty cool "rollercoaster through interactive story and wonderful environments" kind of game) and the ending after "The Hand of the Prophet", it seems to give up on its initial story focus and provides one contrived story explanation after another to get the player to engage in combat and mow through entire areas for various reasons boiling down to "video game logic", which further mostly boils down to needing object X to continue the plot and having to go through area A through C to get it and then progress. (there's entire rather stupid plot points like Elizabeth being able to knock Booker down after he fought a bunch of elite soldiers in The Hall of Heroes and generally establishing himself as a badass or needing a captured/dead gunsmith and then his tools when Booker runs by about a dozen gun depots and kills an entire army by himself, or when they "need to get to an airship", and what does Booker do to get there? He takes down an even bigger airship instead of commandeering it after killing everyone inside). The entire Shanty Town to Factory levels (the middle part of the game) felt entirely like filler.

- Till very late in the game the "parallel universe" thing is at best contrived and a gimmick (at least the WAY they make you use it), there would barely have been any needed changes to the overall story if the gunsmith was alive instead of dead in the first place - he would have sent you to get his tools afterwards anyway, and instead of Booker saying "we didn't think this through, how do we give get the tools out of here..." the rebels could have gotten them and given to the smith and voilá no need for the second universe change. Later in the game it becomes more of an integral part of the story.

- Limited to two weapons and two "main" vigors (I could never remember which number-key was for which vigor without a UI hint like in Bioshock), it's a very consolized approach and imo makes it all worse than in the previous parts.

- Fighting enemies and bosses etc. comes in the same linear fashion, in the first game a lot of them were optional to begin with (Big Brothers and a few of the Big Sisters) and you could always plan ahead and decide when and where to engage, go and set traps, hack turrets, charm enemies, lure them into places you could manipulate with plasmids etc. In Infinite it's the same old shooting gallery instead of challenging combat puzzles.

- Most vigors were rather pointless after a while, the lightning/shock jokey and fire/devil's kiss one seemed way overpowered in combination with certain clothes and more useful than a lot of the others, especially considering Salts cost. Possession seemed useful every now and then, but costs a lot.

- Aside from a few times when there is no other choice or one runs out of ammo, certain weapons like Carbine and RPG always seemed to be the best combo (Hand Cannon, Shotgun and Sniper Rifle also seemed alright, but very situational instead). There was very little use for a large amount of the other weapons.

- Throughout the game I only managed to die or needed to reload the entirety of two times on Normal. I know there's kind of been an inflation in what "game difficulty" means, but the first Bioshock seemed more challenging at lower difficulties.

- Another thing is the general loot and food system that is a throwback to a lot of similar games and seems to become one of the big "game play" features aside from the shooting itself, but you keep constantly asking yourself how fat Booker should be by this point in the story and how the hell he can manage to keep stuffing things in his face, if he is REALLY supposed to eat those potatoes or chips out of the toilet or from the garbage bin (and if it really would add to his health) as well as to why the hell people keep throwing their money and ammunition away into garbage bins.

There's already safes and weapon caches all around the game world where these things make sense to be placed in. Instead of spreading the money all around, put $700-1300 or more into these special safes and balance the game that way. (Although I guess that would somewhat punish the people that just follow the main plot, but they could balance it with the stuff corpses etc. drop too).

It's certainly not the ZOMGBBQWTF BEST VIDYA GAME EVER the press made it out to be and since people compare it to Dishonored, that is definitely the superior game.
I'd even say that the "game part" is meh to mediocre and the most interesting parts were its artistic style and movie-like story.