KickStarter Black Geyser: Couriers of Darkness - Tales of the Moon Cult expansion on the way

[Lurker King]

People that bitch about the negativity of the Codex should read this thread. A group of people promising a full-fledged cRPG without a clue receiving the most patient feedback in the world.

 

[GreenMagicSpell]

Make a better RPG than they do, then. :D

 

[ArchAngel]

People that bitch about the negativity of the Codex should read this thread. A group of people promising a full-fledged cRPG without a clue receiving the most patient feedback in the world.

Well Codex is a nice place when it needs to be. On most other forums people would not care to help.

 

[Old Hans]

If its good enough for Ben Robin, Marketing Specialist. Its good enough for me

 

[Perkel]

People that bitch about the negativity of the Codex should read this thread. A group of people promising a full-fledged cRPG without a clue receiving the most patient feedback in the world.

I think that screenshot they showed look promising (going for iso with kind of hand painted look to it). It it is real then it isn't probably just another indie wanaabes but actual team that knows some technical stuff but fails badly at lore design.

Like someone said talking is cheap.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Good ol' Ben never steered me wrong! The man sure knows his Ar Pee Gees.

 

[roshan]

Funny that the description of the Fjeldegug race exactly does the things you listed (who rules, what history, etc.)

Make a better RPG than they do, then. :D

Being defensive will not get you anywhere. Keep in mind that the developers at this point need harsh critics who can give good advice, not fans to cheer them on. There's been really good advice given on this thread. As an insider, you could really be in a position to help them out.

 

[Zep Zepo]

I got your Black Geyser right here.

*grabs crotch*

Zep--

 

[Lucky]

I am talking specifically about this:

• Available for Windows PC, Linux, Mac, iPad and Android, with our CrossSave support
• Languages**: English, German (Deutsch), French (Français), Spanish (Español), Italian (italiano), Czech (Čeština), Hungarian (magyar)

Did any of you ship even one game ? I mean you have 5 different plarforms here and 7 languages.

QA alone will be hell for small experienced team let alone newbs.

This bears repeating, because it's something that tends to be underestimated. Translating a game takes a lot of time, far more in fact than most people think it does, especially when the translator can't apply a translation program with a broad library. You should focus on finishing the English version first, since that has the broadest audience, before moving on to any languages that you're also fluent in. You can also hire a translator, but that costs money that you might not have and you would need multiple if you want them to have any degree of fluency in the language that they're translating to.

 

[Grinning Reaper]

People that bitch about the negativity of the Codex should read this thread. A group of people promising a full-fledged cRPG without a clue trying to scam fans of "old-school" games on Kickstarter receiving the most patient feedback in the world.

 

[Grokalibre]

Will combat be turned-base or shitty real time with pause?

 

[Lurker King]

People that bitch about the negativity of the Codex should read this thread. A group of people promising a full-fledged cRPG without a clue trying to scam fans of "old-school" games on Kickstarter receiving the most patient feedback in the world.

 

[GreenMagicSpell]

Funny that the description of the Fjeldegug race exactly does the things you listed (who rules, what history, etc.)

Make a better RPG than they do, then. :D

Being defensive will not get you anywhere. Keep in mind that the developers at this point need harsh critics who can give good advice, not fans to cheer them on. There's been really good advice given on this thread. As an insider, you could really be in a position to help them out.

I just refute bullshit lies, because those belong to the trash. (Yeah, I already hear the devs saying to me "just ignore the bullshit", but I can't help) And yes, I already collected much useful info as well in this thread - it was forwarded to them. Some other comments are just plainly false - some people think it makes them look smart or clever if they criticize something. They feel themselves important if they can criticize. That's why I said to them: make such a prototype (and thus screenshot) if you're able to. Pointless bashing doesn't make sense; constructive but harsh criticism does.

 

[Lady_Error]

Well, Black Geyser is not worse of a name than the German "Black Eye" setting - though they did rename it to Realms of Arkania for the English market.

I also have my doubts that a new team can make real-time with pause work well - turn-based combat like in Temple of Elemental Evil is a better choice.

They should do a limited number of $15 pledges for the full game - that is usually a good way to get a kickstarter campaign going early on.

 

[zeitgeist]

Having races like Fjeldegug or 'Devil God' doesn't help.

Actually, statements such as this doesn't help as long as you don't provide some reasoning.

And therein lies the problem. If one doesn't even have the capacity to explain to themselves why something like that is indeed very silly, how can one have the capacity to design and develop a decent game?

 

[Grokalibre]

"How to turn a community willing to help against you because of your emotional implication"

 

[GreenMagicSpell]

Website poll exceeded 10k

 

[Grokalibre]

It's only a poll and doesn't mean much.
For instance, I checked the 100$ option while having no intention of backing the game, just to illustrate the sentence above.

 

[MRY]

I think you have gotten some good advice in this thread, and as an evangelist for the project, you need to put its interest above your own frustration with the way that advice is packaged. You should be courting supporters, not riling up adversaries.

The only things I can quickly add to what others have said:

(1) "Courier quest" is pretty common usage for a boring quest in a cRPG. So the game's subtitle may have negative connotations for yo developer friends' core audience of seasoned RPG players. This isn't to say that actually having the PC be a courier is a bad idea. It might actually be kind of neat to have a Pony Express feel to things. But I would keep it out of the title.

(2) I guess I might also offer a counterpoint to Vault Dweller's suggestion about fleshing out ideas more: in some instances, I think less text would do better. I don't know that specifics like occupations and sense of humor, for example, add much. A more impressionistic take on the races would serve to whet the player's appetite; too much detail just gives people things to nitpick.

(3) Given that there is a "screenshot" (mockup?), I would leave out the standalone renders.

(4) I'm not sure quite what's going on with the "Black Geyser" title, or how a Geyser will crush you. I thought the emphasis on greed was more interesting, and I wonder if your friends could build a title around that instead.

 

[Angthoron]

Website poll exceeded 10k

While everyone else is suggesting things that have to do with writing and design, I'd like to suggest that the devs do not base their assumptions around the results of the poll too much. I could click on any option just for the hell of it, so could anyone else. Someone could even simply sabotage the poll for trolling purposes. It does give some idea, but don't get too carried away with it - clicking a button isn't the same thing as opening your purse.

Also - budget. They should budget everything, take KS cut and possible taxes into account, plus add 15% of unexpected expenses on top. A lot of projects crash just on the failure to budget. Seeing cross-platform and multi-language, I think there might be some over-extending going on already.

P.S: Don't use the "Do it better then" line, it's one of the worst lines to deflect criticism.

 

[GreenMagicSpell]

P.S: Don't use the "Do it better then" line, it's one of the worst lines to deflect criticism.

Indeed, but there is a difference between harsh criticism and plain lies - so I deflect bullshit. I know the Geyser is not perfect but the guys are devoted (and some idiot accuses them of SCAM?!) and I find their work stupendous, even with its potential mistakes. Again: harsh criticism OK, bullshit not OK for me.

Given that there is a "screenshot" (mockup?), I would leave out the standalone renders.

AFAIK they wanted to prove with those their progress. And that it's original art, every piece of it, their creation.

I'm not sure quite what's going on with the "Black Geyser" title, or how a Geyser will crush you. I thought the emphasis on greed was more interesting, and I wonder if your friends could build a title around that instead.

This has been an ongoing debate among the devs too (kinda internal info, but I've their consent to share any harmless stuff to give the public an idea about how they work as a team). It isn't good to deal with two focus points. Either greed, or geyser. I'll tell them you confirmed this.

Website poll exceeded 10k

Someone could even simply sabotage the poll for trolling purposes. It does give some idea, but don't get too carried away with it - clicking a button isn't the same thing as opening your purse.

I'm sure they/we know it. Nonetheless, when you have several hundreds of votes, sabotage just doesn't make any sense, because a few false votes won't be statistically relevant. Remember, they aren't some random guys from college -- they are experts who come from the IT industry (just like me), they have worked together for years, but yes, they haven't built an own CRPG together before. Of course, poll is just one of the many ways to test interest, I agree.

Also - budget. They should budget everything, take KS cut and possible taxes into account, plus add 15% of unexpected expenses on top. A lot of projects crash just on the failure to budget. Seeing cross-platform and multi-language, I think there might be some over-extending going on already.

Again, I'm sure they have a pro for this, but thanks for your goodwill and warning.

 

[MRY]

Indeed, but there is a difference between harsh criticism and plain lies - so I deflect bullshit. I know the Geyser is not perfect but the guys are devoted (and some idiot accuses them of SCAM?!) and I find their work stupendous, even with its potential mistakes. Again: harsh criticism OK, bullshit not OK for me.

As the project's representative, you can never go wrong with too much courtesy. Politely correcting misconceptions about the game is a much better approach, even if it is less cathartic.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Website poll exceeded 10k

(2) I guess I might also offer a counterpoint to Vault Dweller's suggestion about fleshing out ideas more: in some instances, I think less text would do better. I don't know that specifics like occupations and sense of humor, for example, add much. A more impressionistic take on the races would serve to whet the player's appetite; too much detail just gives people things to nitpick.

My point was that when developers offer me 5 different races, they need to present them properly and explain the difference. And no, occupation and sense of humor or lack thereof don't add much.

 

[felipepepe]

I know the Geyser is not perfect but the guys are devoted (and some idiot accuses them of SCAM?!) and I find their work stupendous, even with its potential mistakes.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions bro. When someone accuse you of being a scam, just offer proof that you are not. It's much more effective than acting outraged.

And above all, being "devoted" isn't a outstanding feature; it's really arrogant to say that. Do you really think that all those thousand KS projects out there are made by lazy douches that are just cashing in? Of course they are also passionate, devoted and believe in what they are doing. But that doesn't mean that what they have is actually good, or that they will succeed.

Remember, this isn't 2012 anymore. A LOT of Kickstarters crashed and burned to the ground already. People are wary to back a bunch of unknowns with a dream, especially at such high price as $20. "We're devoted" won't cut.

 

[GreenMagicSpell]

My point was that when developers offer me 5 different races, they need to present them properly and explain the difference. And no, occupation and sense of humor or lack thereof don't add much.

A valid point.

And above all, being "devoted" isn't a outstanding feature; it's really arrogant to say that. Do you really think that all those thousand KS projects out there are made by lazy douches that are just cashing in? Of course they are also passionate, devoted and believe in what they are doing. But that doesn't mean that what they have is actually good, or that they will succeed.

Why would it be arrogant to say the truth? It would be arrogant to say that all those others (including those who failed) were not devoted. I never said or implied that. And yes, those who failed also didn't deserve non-constructive bashing or flaming. No one deserves that who works honestly IMO.

Indeed, but there is a difference between harsh criticism and plain lies - so I deflect bullshit. I know the Geyser is not perfect but the guys are devoted (and some idiot accuses them of SCAM?!) and I find their work stupendous, even with its potential mistakes. Again: harsh criticism OK, bullshit not OK for me.

As the project's representative, you can never go wrong with too much courtesy. Politely correcting misconceptions about the game is a much better approach, even if it is less cathartic.

I would agree, but I'm not an official representative, I never learnt PR or communication, and when I asked them if I should take care about anything, they just said: "be yourself, be genuine, ignore the obvious bullshit, and analyze a LOT -- we need info, and people will be more genuine too if you don't try to look like the employee of a PR firm". So I don't feel like I should be babysitting anyone's emotions here, sorry. If you consider me a representative (I forward info to them after all, and explain some stuff here), feel free to do that, but I'm not going to change my style just because the big book of PR would dictate that. Live with it.