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The Dark Eye Blackguards 2

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Crooked Bee, Jun 10, 2014.

  1. Mrowak Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Mrowak
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    Project: Eternity
    Man, PS:T still looks awesome with Widescreen and Ghostdog's mods.

    But coming back to the topic, I just launched Blackguards 2 and I must say I am enjoying myself so far. When does this trend turn around, exactly?
     
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  2. IncendiaryDevice Self-Ejected Village Idiot

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    It never ceases to amaze me when people consistently complain about fantasy settings looking "cartoonish" - who the fuck want's to look at a "real-life" goblin? It'd put you off your tea for sure...
     
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  3. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
  4. IncendiaryDevice Self-Ejected Village Idiot

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    Considering it came out well before most of the others and is only really comparable to BG1 in that respect, I'd say it looked better than BG1?

    About Larian? Oh, I'm a total fanboy, if you don't like Larian you can suck my dick.
     
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  5. Mortmal Arcane

    Mortmal
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    Boss fights(creator) a bit unbalanced and more frustrating than diffcult to figure, too much crowd control on the other side that break the momemtum of the fight.Nothing unforgivable although.11 hours in its still good.
     
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  6. Major_Blackhart Codexia Lord Sodom Patron

    Major_Blackhart
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    Well, i just bought it.
     
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  7. Abu Antar Tweet, tweet Patron

    Abu Antar
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Played a fw battles and so far it feels like it is much easier. Allocating that AP you get isn't as fun as it was in the first game. The missing attributes and simplification of some of the other areas to put AP in is disappointing. I'm going to have one mage in full metal armor and I am guessing that it is somewhat going to break the game. There are too many enemies spawning. I don't complain about this because I find it challenging, it just feels annoying. The game is in dire need of a fast forward button. There are too many units for the game's own good. I'm browsing the net on my phone while the enemy is moving. Magic has no miss chance, I think? If so, it will be fairly easy to abuse.

    Soundtrack has been decent so far and the game looks better than the first.

    My complaint about the first game and attributes was that it didn't give a great picture of how your character was improving in terms of showing the player any good data. In BG2, there's actually data at the bottom right screen that shows improvements of equipment. All they would have had to do with attributes is give some better feedback, not remove them.

    I feel the game is streamlined in all the wrong ways.

    Take the weabo game Bravely Default. It was streamlined, but in the best way possible. There was an option to set battles to different speeds. You could choose the rate of combat encounters. You could repeat the actions of your last combat round by pressing a button or in cases where the enemies were piss easy you could use the auto battle option. In other words, the game made things go faster but didn't actually make the game easier.

    I think I will like BG2 in the end, but it won't be at the level of the first game.
     
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  8. coldcrow Prophet Patron

    coldcrow
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    I don't get this hate for the RNG, to the extent that they removed damage ranges and spell failures.
    Take for example one high point of the first game: the rescuing of Zurbs girlfriend. It was very rewarding to puzzle out the best approach to this map. The only fragile element was the opening sphaero fireball to light up the barrels, but you could spend a few points towards a 60%? success chance. Everything else worked in almost always barring very unlucky multiple opposing criticals.

    What I would have liked were more intricate small maps with only few units but small margin for error - not huge clusterfucks like BlG2.

    Simply put: fuck you daedalic. You listened to the wrong suggestions.
     
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  9. Abu Antar Tweet, tweet Patron

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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    They have a publisher breathing down their necks now, don't they? (Genuine question.)

    It's funny how I feel the game and then I compare the review scores of the first and second games. :negative:
     
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  10. Infinitron I post news Patron

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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    They ARE the publisher.
     
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  11. Crooked Bee (no longer) a wide-wandering bee Patron

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    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Told you :M
     
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  12. MicoSelva Prestigious Gentleman Don't call Abigail Patron

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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    These are some surprisingly high review scores. Hopefully for Daedalic, they will translate into increased sales numbers too. Some people do not want to play sequels of games they have not played/finished in the first place, so this might be an obstacle in a way.
     
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  13. Abu Antar Tweet, tweet Patron

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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I see, I was almost certain that some company had bought them. Ah well, if this is the direction they are taking and there is a Blackguards 3 or a game like it from these guys, I will be very hesitant to buy it.
     
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  14. Gord Arcane

    Gord
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    Yes, me neither. I'm currently replaying BG1 and generally the only cases were you really depend on the RNG are some (comparatively few) battles that are set up badly, e.g. 3 of the early fights in chapter 2 and one of the nine hordes fights. When I found a battle too difficult otherwise it was always a case of either approaching it with the wrong strategy or tackling it too early in the game (exception being getting several really unlucky rolls).
    So in other words, it would have been enough to identify the problematic battles and analysing what went wrong there instead of removing all randomness.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
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  15. CreepyJohn_Daedalic Daedalic Entertainment Developer

    CreepyJohn_Daedalic
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    Most feedback is really helpful if it is formulated correctly (please be specific). Thanks in advance.


    The base hit-chance in Blackguards 2 is 60%, the base offensive value for a healthy human being is 40%.
    There is no base defensive value! Only trained warriors can actively lower the chance of incoming blows.
    That means a healthy human being can hit another one with any weapon at a chance of 100%.
    If the target is able to try a parry or dodge maneuver the chance is lowered by the defensive skill value of the target.
    If the attacker chooses an advanced maneuver to attack (like powerblow), the chance is lowered by the special-attack's handicap.
    If the attacker is suffering from poison, debuffs or environmental effects, these might lower his base
    offensive value, thus lowering the chance to hit.
    Training a Weapon Skill gives a bonus equal to the skill points distributed into offense and defense, but
    only while the character is wielding a weapon matching the skill type.

    Here's the formula:
    -If the target is able to parry or dodge:
    60% + Offensive Value - Defense Value - Handicaps from special attacks

    -If the target is not able to parry or dodge:
    60% + Offensive value – 0 – Handicaps from special attacks

    Here's an example:
    Jimmy has put 50 points into his sword weapon skill and assigned 30 of those to offense and 20 to defense.
    He fights Wombo who is trained in daggers with 10 points in offense and 20 in defense.

    Jimmy's offensive value is:
    40% base offense + 30% sword skill = 70%

    Wombo's defensive value is:
    20% dagger skill = 20%

    Jimmy wants to try a Powerblow special attack.

    So the Hit chance is:
    60% (base melee chance)
    + 70% (Jimmy's total offensive value with swords)
    - 20% (Wombo's dagger defense value)
    - 20% (Powerblow handicap)
    --------------------------------
    = 90% Chance to hit

    Spells are always casted successfully. However it is still possible to evade, for example by casting Ecliptifactus Shadow Force.
    The Narrenholz doesn't have any Astral Energy. It is not capable of casting spells.

    Ranged Combat works very similar but there is:

    - only a 50% base chance
    - a handicap for very near range (fixed)
    - a handicap for long range (incremental)
    - a handicap for small targets
    - a handicap for partially obstructed targets (behind cover)
    - no chance to parry a ranged attack unless the defender is carrying a shield (dodge is always possible)

    Generally there are different AIs for the enemy spellcasters that are supposed to reflect their personalities. Of course there is a certain random factor regarding the behaviour of the mage, but I never heard or read in any current review or testing report that the mages where simply debuffing or attacking in melee. Yes, there are certain mages (like the druid) who are casting support spells (in his case the "Move as Lightning" on all Jestertrees), but just turning themselfes invincible and doing nothing is not part of their behavior routine.

    May I ask which version of the game you've been playing (version/platform)?

    Which optional Takate fight do you mean? Against the spiders? The answer to the "seemingly random spawn points" there would be: Because it makes sense, tells the right story and gives you the right feeling for the battle. The colossus had fixed spawn points, because Marwans troops were advancing from these two directions and not "all around you" like the spiders.

    The level design was handcrafted just like in the old Blackguards. I need to know which maps exactly you mean by "the later game".

    The AI behaviour for certain maps is also handcrafted. I'm just assuming you are talking about the troll fortress, because there the AI is scripted to act as a group. The whole group won't move if you're damaging only a small part and the soldier you are damaging won't attack you on his own, because that would be suicide.

    Again, I don't know which map you are referring to. Therefore I can't tell if it's a bug or if you are fighting against the "coward AI". Your version/platform would be helpful here, too.

    Yes, Blackguards 2 isn’t as dependent on luck anymore. Maybe you liked this about Blackguards 1, but maybe you haven’t lost a map 17 times in a row, unable to figure out if you’re making the wrong tactical choices or are just unlucky. That's the thing about games that rely heavily on RNG: Your experience and level of frustration doesn't translate to the whole community at all. I believe this design decision has already been heavily discussed in another thread.
     
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  16. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Without an RNG, you have no unforseen consequences. Without unforseen consequences, you have no management requiring skill besides "solving the puzzle."

    It's such a blantant falsehood of game design that RNG removes skill testing - the RNG is the prerequiste of the skill test.

    It's why Blood Bowl is such a skill testing game even though it has incredibly high variance. An RNG is bad if its results cannot be mitigated and used by the skillful player. It's not bad just because the result of an action is somewhat random.
     
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  17. CreepyJohn_Daedalic Daedalic Entertainment Developer

    CreepyJohn_Daedalic
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    The RNG hasn't been removed from Blackguards. It's simply not the defining element anymore.
     
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  18. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    It seems to me that you may have completely removed it from mechanics where it would have been fairly easy to just mitigate it instead.

    In general, when you have only a year to produce a game, radical changes are ill-advised. You don't have time for revolution, only evolution.
     
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  19. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
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    As I understand it, what little RNG is left can be puzzle-solvingly mitigated by, for example, having lowly mercenaries hit enemies first to remove their dodge, and then having near-sure hits with your actual important characters?

    Also, you have a compete lack of understanding of your own game if you think Blackguards 1 was "defined by" its RNG. Blackguards 1 was a lot more dependant on player skill than many RPGs I've played.
     
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  20. Darth Roxor Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis

    Darth Roxor
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    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Dickie Arcane Patron

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    Are they high, though? I thought games were now rated on a 9/10 to 10/10 scale, so an 8/10 is pretty low.
     
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  22. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I've lost maps in Blackguards 17 times in a row. Inevitably, it was because I'm a cheap consumable hoarder. :smug:

    From what I recall, positioning could have a huge impact on battles in Blackguards that often felt like it was too large. The difference between life and death in a single hex. When you're in one hex, an enemy attacks you. When you're in the hex next to it, he chooses to do something else. This AI stuff is also a form of "RNG" - though behind the scenes it may actually be deterministic, to the player it feels "random".

    I remember thinking that the game should have provided more area denial-type abilities, in addition to the Fortifex Arcane spell, to give players more power over this mechanic.
     
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  23. SCO Arcane In My Safe Space

    SCO
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    So tl;dr: Once again a good game gets casualized and the designers appease dumb people who couldn't strategize their way out of a paper bag? Spell skill trees in BG3, calling it.
     
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  24. Crooked Bee (no longer) a wide-wandering bee Patron

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    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
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  25. CreepyJohn_Daedalic Daedalic Entertainment Developer

    CreepyJohn_Daedalic
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    "You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

    Evolution: We have a strategic map where you need to plan your campaign and route with every location giving you different benefits (like giving you new equipment for certain types of mercenaries, giving your merchant additional supplies, giving you completely new types of mercenaries, etc).

    Revolution: There is the stamina bar, which gives you a different of view on special maneuvers, like hammerblow or trippleshot. In Blackguards you could spam hammerblow and tripleshots endless times. Now you have to choose how often you want to use those maneuvers. Use weaker maneuvers more often or only hammerblow three times? It’s your choice.

    Evolution: We now have completely new types of battles where you have to defend the locations on the strategic map (you can place different types of traps on the battlefield beforehand; yes, this is also new). If you lose these battles you lose the benefit of the location and can recapture it. Yes, you can actually LOSE battles.

    Evolution: There are chests and special enemies with additional loot on battlemaps, so there are exploration elements on the battlefield now.

    Additional:

    Revolution: Yes, we also have a fixed protagonist now. We decided to do this, because we wanted a deeper and more compelling story. However, the development of the skills of this character is totally up to you.

    Revolution: The character creation is more implemented in the gameplay. Before you decide which skill you want to use, you have to know the basic rule system. That’s the reason, why we didn’t put the character creation at the start of the game.

    Evolution: You can now choose your heroes and troops before the battle and you need to place them on the battlefield yourself for a more personal tactic inside of the battles.

    Evolution: We have a line of sight tool for your archers where you can check possible locations for ranged combat.

    Evolution: The height levels within some of the new battlemaps vary much more than in BGs1. There are interactive doors to travel from one level to another.

    Revolution: Many (almost all) active and passive talents have been redesigned (like warcraft or most of the spells). There are new talents and special abilities as well (like the lores or stamina based talents).

    Evolution: You can interrogate prisoners or pay spies to get information about upcoming battles (this goes as far as unlocking additional spawn points).
    No in-battle-abilities were removed. Cover (cover behind objects and shoot from cover) and Guard (ranged passing blow) have been added

    Evolution: We have completely new types of enemies with different types of movement (pushing you of bridges and cliffs, flying around the map, etc.).

    Evolution: There are more items like amor sets and unique weapons.

    Revolution: Traps and throwing weapons have been made more useful, adding to more tactical options

    So was Blackguards 1 a bad game in our opinion? Sure not.
    Could we have done things better? Sure as hell.
    Would we have changed some things in Blackguards 1 given the opportunity? Well, we actually did change some things and introduced new features in later patches.
     
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