Blizzard announced "Classic" World of Warcraft

[Wilian]

Wrath heroics (early on), while more forgiving than pre-nerf TBC heroics, presented the best package of challenge and aesthetics/design.

Sorry but WotLK heroics were a fucking joke from the getgo. With everyone getting a strong AoE, threat becoming insignifant due to tanks getting also strong AoE and control abilities and in general mobs scaling incredibly poorly vs. the new ilevel mantra where every upgrade has to be at least 14 ilevel jump and each ilevel is expotentially stronger than the last one made sure that there was nothing in those dungeons worth noting for.

There were 3 things that were "difficult"; Oculus dragons because mongs couldn't adapt to a keyset beyond their class, one fear mob pull at end of the Utgarde Pinnacle if your tank was retarded enough to not pull them into empty room and final boss at Halls of Lightning because some people have difficulties with moving in.

Even pretending that there was anything resembling of challenge in any of WotLK content before Ulduar is just plain delusional. Best example of it is how Naxx, which was supposedly step up from heroics had bosses and mobs doing less damage than they did in Naxx60 vs four to five time higher healthpools. And the dungeons were vastly wimpier. Only physical impairements could explain sense of challenge in about any of the dungeons.

 

[Parabalus]

T0.5 was catch-up gear. Along with ZG and AQ20 I might add, even though they had some good epic gear or the potential to get such from quests. A lot of people didn't, and won't, raid, so T0.5 is for them.

ZG and AQ20 at least had a few items which were better than the alternatives on release.

 

[Metro]

Sorry but WotLK heroics were a fucking joke from the getgo.

Gross exaggeration. When people were just hitting level cap they weren't 'jokes from the getgo.'

 

[Lacrymas]

Not much world PvP in vanilla? Only while levelling? Did you even touch EPL, BRM or Silithus?

Yeah, you are remembering wrong. Yes, *sometimes* when guilds from different factions have their raid times at the same hour and happen to be at the same place at the same time, they can start fighting each other. But not only did that not happen very frequently, we would also lose our world buffs, so we avoided fighting each other because of that. And again, that's only on PvP servers, which aren't the only ones. EPL and Silithus were ghost zones.

 

[Quatlo]

Wrath heroics (early on), while more forgiving than pre-nerf TBC heroics, presented the best package of challenge and aesthetics/design.

Sorry but WotLK heroics were a fucking joke from the getgo. With everyone getting a strong AoE, threat becoming insignifant due to tanks getting also strong AoE and control abilities and in general mobs scaling incredibly poorly vs. the new ilevel mantra where every upgrade has to be at least 14 ilevel jump and each ilevel is expotentially stronger than the last one made sure that there was nothing in those dungeons worth noting for.

There were 3 things that were "difficult"; Oculus dragons because mongs couldn't adapt to a keyset beyond their class, one fear mob pull at end of the Utgarde Pinnacle if your tank was retarded enough to not pull them into empty room and final boss at Halls of Lightning because some people have difficulties with moving in.

Even pretending that there was anything resembling of challenge in any of WotLK content before Ulduar is just plain delusional. Best example of it is how Naxx, which was supposedly step up from heroics had bosses and mobs doing less damage than they did in Naxx60 vs four to five time higher healthpools. And the dungeons were vastly wimpier. Only physical impairements could explain sense of challenge in about any of the dungeons.

Wow, you just proved you started playing at 3.3.5 private server. Good job.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I wasn't big on TBC at all. The art direction went into some hyper-gay sci-fi territory that didn't fit at all, the PVP was slower than a classroom full of retards, the raids outside of Karazhan and a few encounters in Black Temple were forgettable and if we're going to pinpoint true decline this is where the welfare epics really came in with the whole badge system being implemented.

 

[Wilian]

Wrath heroics (early on), while more forgiving than pre-nerf TBC heroics, presented the best package of challenge and aesthetics/design.

Sorry but WotLK heroics were a fucking joke from the getgo. With everyone getting a strong AoE, threat becoming insignifant due to tanks getting also strong AoE and control abilities and in general mobs scaling incredibly poorly vs. the new ilevel mantra where every upgrade has to be at least 14 ilevel jump and each ilevel is expotentially stronger than the last one made sure that there was nothing in those dungeons worth noting for.

There were 3 things that were "difficult"; Oculus dragons because mongs couldn't adapt to a keyset beyond their class, one fear mob pull at end of the Utgarde Pinnacle if your tank was retarded enough to not pull them into empty room and final boss at Halls of Lightning because some people have difficulties with moving in.

Even pretending that there was anything resembling of challenge in any of WotLK content before Ulduar is just plain delusional. Best example of it is how Naxx, which was supposedly step up from heroics had bosses and mobs doing less damage than they did in Naxx60 vs four to five time higher healthpools. And the dungeons were vastly wimpier. Only physical impairements could explain sense of challenge in about any of the dungeons.

Wow, you just proved you started playing at 3.3.5 private server. Good job.

Alternatively I wasn't grossly incompetent in a situation where we came from expansion that was tuned far more tightly to expansion that gave abilities and AoE like candies while offering undertuned experiences left, right and center.

 

[Parabalus]

Not much world PvP in vanilla? Only while levelling? Did you even touch EPL, BRM or Silithus?

Yeah, you are remembering wrong. Yes, *sometimes* when guilds from different factions have their raid times at the same hour and happen to be at the same place at the same time, they can start fighting each other. But not only did that not happen very frequently, we would also lose our world buffs, so we avoided fighting each other because of that. And again, that's only on PvP servers, which aren't the only ones. EPL and Silithus were ghost zones.

You played on a private server, in the ?servers top guild?.

There was a lot of random, pointless/rewardless PvP going on in vanilla.

 

[Lacrymas]

I also raided in vanilla when it was current, and I don't remember A LOT OF PVP TO THE MAXXXXXX like some people seem to, and back then, I wasn't in a top guild. Yeah, sure, when the opposite faction see you just randomly grinding, they'll try to kill you, but that was true in TBC as well, it was even easier to gank then because you could swoop down from your mount for a surprise attack. But really, people try to not be around other people when grinding to maximize the yield, so that doesn't happen very frequently.

And even if there really is a tremendous amount of world PvP, is that all the game can offer you and the only thing worth playing for?

 

[hivemind]

yes

lmao at hitting dumb scripted mobs with primitive mechanics to boot

 

[Metro]

yes

lmao at hitting dumb scripted mobs with primitive mechanics to boot

Rolling PUGs in BG's isn't PvP, dawg.

 

[hivemind]

when did YOU come back, lol?

 

[Absinthe]

It's also the main reason there's any world PvP and other interactions with other players.

People seem to want them to take the easy road and release TBC/WOTLK, but I'd rather they just add to and improve vanilla. All the flying mounts and "quality of life"(as they like to call it) crap completely ruin the game. Same with making other, smaller zones the focus. Keep the game in Kalimdor and EK.

Honestly making WoW zones smaller and/or raising movement speeds would've been a very welcome addition to the game. Walking around in WoW is a pain in the ass, esp. if you're playing horde and get to enjoy that featureless terrain. The problem with flying mounts wasn't that they were convenient transportation. The problem was that mounted combat is not a thing and that everyone was flying around instead of gathering in certain zones, so world PvP and even PvE interactions went down massively. WoW always had issues as a MMO since they loved instancing everything, even PvP, (and in the end they instanced the whole world with sharding) and as the game increasingly revolved around instanced content with direct transportation, world interaction bottomed out and WoW basically went from a Massively Multiplayer Online RPG to a Multiplayer Online RPG and people liked it less and less. The problem with the new zones (I don't know much about post-vanilla WoW tbh) was probably that they displaced old zones which made the world a more empty place. I think WoW overemphasized endgame content too. They should've incentivized rolling alts more so that there's a steady supply of leveling players instead of a server that's barren for players attempting new characters. And they definitely should've improved dungeons instead of the garbage raid scheme they made for EQ nolifers. IIRC the original WoW team pretty much left late in beta development and EQ nolifers took over, resulting in a rash of garbage level design and garbage endgame design.

TBC was the height of the game, though, much more interesting raids, heroics dungeons, arena, useful professions, cool and alien locations, the gameplay wasn't as degenerate as WotLK, a lot of classes got much needed improvements, etc.

TBC also added elves to the horde, paladins to the horde, and shamans to the alliance. It created a rating system so that loot would scale down with level and made sure all kinds of 60 items would fail to proc or no longer work at 70. Flying mounts also became the death of world PvP. And the focus on arenas came at the cost of no more PvP battlegrounds. They should've just developed both but they didn't do that and ultimately concluded that "PvP was a mistake." That's how WoW designers operate. Rather than learn how something works and innovating upon it, they just follow really idiotic notions of PvP balance. They don't think in terms of "how does this mechanic factor into how this character interacts with other characters (or PvE content)?" but "oh no that ability does too much damage" or "oh no that's a big CC" or "concerns about stunlocks are exaggerated because I'm bad at stunlocking so my experience proves stunlocking isn't viable" and stupid shit like that so they never get it right and eventually throw their hands up in the air and decide it was a stupid idea to try and give up. That's also how horde got paladins and alliance got shamans - Blizz was sick of faction imbalance and just said "well let's not do faction-specific classes anymore and call it a day." Tons of lazy fucking design like that by people who decided that making things work was just too hard for their stupid brains.

 

[Metro]

when did YOU come back, lol?

lol lmao idk my bff jill?

Speak English.

 

[hivemind]

what the fuck

metro you retard

it was one lol(laughing out loud - but you already know this) at the end of a normal sentence

how fuckinng tiny your brain must be for that to be in any way incomprehensible

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

So how much $$ are you guys planning to donate to your favorite millionaire streamer???

 

[Xor]

what the fuck

metro you retard

it was one lol(laughing out loud - but you already know this) at the end of a normal sentence

how fuckinng tiny your brain must be for that to be in any way incomprehensible

Metro's brain is still broken from Trump winning the election.

Wrath heroics (early on), while more forgiving than pre-nerf TBC heroics, presented the best package of challenge and aesthetics/design.

Sorry but WotLK heroics were a fucking joke from the getgo. With everyone getting a strong AoE, threat becoming insignifant due to tanks getting also strong AoE and control abilities and in general mobs scaling incredibly poorly vs. the new ilevel mantra where every upgrade has to be at least 14 ilevel jump and each ilevel is expotentially stronger than the last one made sure that there was nothing in those dungeons worth noting for.

There were 3 things that were "difficult"; Oculus dragons because mongs couldn't adapt to a keyset beyond their class, one fear mob pull at end of the Utgarde Pinnacle if your tank was retarded enough to not pull them into empty room and final boss at Halls of Lightning because some people have difficulties with moving in.

Even pretending that there was anything resembling of challenge in any of WotLK content before Ulduar is just plain delusional. Best example of it is how Naxx, which was supposedly step up from heroics had bosses and mobs doing less damage than they did in Naxx60 vs four to five time higher healthpools. And the dungeons were vastly wimpier. Only physical impairements could explain sense of challenge in about any of the dungeons.

Wow, you just proved you started playing at 3.3.5 private server. Good job.

On the one hand, you're right, I do remember a lot of the heroics being fairly challenging early on, notably what's his name at the end of Halls of Lightning. On the other hand my guild did clear Naxx10 mostly in 80 greens and whatever 70 epics we had left over from leveling about a week after the expansion came out, basically as soon as we could get 2 tanks, a few hearlers, and some DPS together. Actually we didn't intend to, but we missed getting the server first achievement by only a few hours.

Wrath was such a fucking disappointment. Two good raids don't make up for a plethora of bad decisions and the absolute joke that was Crusader's Coliseum.

 

[Steamboat Willie]

On the other hand my guild did clear Naxx10 mostly in 80 greens and whatever 70 epics we had left over from leveling about a week after the expansion came out, basically as soon as we could get 2 tanks, a few hearlers, and some DPS together.

Naxx 10 was absurdly easy. My guild went in on our first night and one-shot several bosses, without even knowing the fights from Vanilla Naxx beforehand. We even 9-manned a few of them since one guy kept getting DC'd.

 

[Lacrymas]

I vaguely remember solo healing Naxx 10 after I got some gear going from it.

 

[Metro]

what the fuck

metro you retard

it was one lol(laughing out loud - but you already know this) at the end of a normal sentence

how fuckinng tiny your brain must be for that to be in any way incomprehensible

wutusay?!?!

Xor is butthurt enough to take a shot at me but is so much of a pussy he has to have me on ignore.

 

[Xor]

The only hard fight that first week was Sapphiron, and that was only because we all had tiny health pools from the 70 gear. Remember they boosted stamina per ilvl with wrath gear to like 1.3 compared to other stats so health pools inflated from around 9-10k in late-game TBC gear to, what, 25-30k in wrath gear? It's been a long while but I seem to remember it being somewhere around there. Anyway with shit health the constant frost damage from sappy was hard to heal through and we ended up having to get creative with frost resist to survive it IIRC. Then we beat Kelthuzad on our 2nd try because like 3 people somehow died to a void zone on our first. It was late at that point.

 

[hivemind]

wutusay?!?!

have

sex

 

[Metro]

Who's alt are you, anyway? I don't bother to keep track.

 

[abija]

Sorry but WotLK heroics were a fucking joke from the getgo.

Gross exaggeration. When people were just hitting level cap they weren't 'jokes from the getgo.'

They were, maybe you remember trying to do achievements right after hitting max level.

 

[Metro]

They were, maybe you remember trying to do achievements right after hitting max level.

Maybe you're thinking of non-heroics. They weren't as hard as pre-nerf TBC heroics but only some try-hard edge-lord would argue Wrath heroics were steamrolled the first few weeks of launch.