Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah, downplaying Wasteland's influences sounds like bollocks.

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah, downplaying Wasteland's influences sounds like bollocks.

I don't think he's downplaying it exactly. Rather he seems unable to fully grasp Fallout through that frame, because the game as he originally conceived it wasn't meant to be a Wasteland spiritual successor. It was sort of hammered and bent into a Wasteland shape during its development.

 

[0sacred]

Tim managing to inject his gay agenda into a video about deep learning. "Boys should not wear pink? That's learned behavior!"

 

[Butter]

"Fallout and Wasteland developed in separate directions." I beg to differ. Fallout 2 clearly takes after Fountain of Dreams.

 

[KainenMorden]

Tim managing to inject his gay agenda into a video about deep learning. "Boys should not wear pink? That's learned behavior!"

In the U.S, originally boys would wear pink and girls wore blue from the 1800s to around the 1940s. Pink was seen as a masculine color, a lighter form of red. So, yeah, he's right.

 

[Butter]

Tim managing to inject his gay agenda into a video about deep learning. "Boys should not wear pink? That's learned behavior!"

In the U.S, originally boys would wear pink and girls wore blue from the 1800s to around the 1940s. Pink was seen as a masculine color, a lighter form of red. So, yeah, he's right.

The US is gay. How do you think Tim caught it?

 

[0sacred]

Tim managing to inject his gay agenda into a video about deep learning. "Boys should not wear pink? That's learned behavior!"

In the U.S, originally boys would wear pink and girls wore blue from the 1800s to around the 1940s. Pink was seen as a masculine color, a lighter form of red. So, yeah, he's right.

Boys (babies actually) wore whatever their mothers put on them. Doesn't mean they gravitated towards that colour bro.

 

[KainenMorden]

Tim managing to inject his gay agenda into a video about deep learning. "Boys should not wear pink? That's learned behavior!"

In the U.S, originally boys would wear pink and girls wore blue from the 1800s to around the 1940s. Pink was seen as a masculine color, a lighter form of red. So, yeah, he's right.

Boys (babies actually) wore whatever their mothers put on them. Doesn't mean they gravitated towards that colour bro.

Well, I was born in 90 so pink was very much a girl color and I never gave it much thought but personally never gravitated towards lighter colors. I remember finding out about this dressing boys in pink thing as a teen and being surprised. I'm fairly certain that men decided it was a masculine color but typically reserved for young boys after the late 1800s.

When children were very young, boys and girls wore clothing that was very similar to a woman's dress though certainly if you tried to dress a boy in a pink dress in current year, you'd appear to be supporting some type of leftist/gay agenda.

He does have a point that certain societal norms have been taught and accepted and then changed. It's relevant now since there's many attempts at reversing accepted norms today and not for the better IMHO.

 

[Wasteland]

Tim managing to inject his gay agenda into a video about deep learning. "Boys should not wear pink? That's learned behavior!"

In the U.S, originally boys would wear pink and girls wore blue from the 1800s to around the 1940s. Pink was seen as a masculine color, a lighter form of red. So, yeah, he's right.

This is apparently a myth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendered_associations_of_pink_and_blue

There is a small grain of truth here: the widespread standardization of pink-for-girls-and-blue-for-boys apparently didn't solidify until the 1940s, i.e. the mass media age, but this is not an especially controversial claim, not nearly as interesting or ideologically useful as the claim that "ACTUALLY, boys were all in PINK, ahahaha CHECKMATE, CHUDS!"

Treat all such stories--anything presented with the idea that normal people have been EXACTLY WRONG, ALL ALONG--as nonsense until you've seen proof. Feminist/queer scholars are basically whiny children play-acting as adult academics. That goes double for feminist/queer-advocate journos. (And may go triple for liberal Redditors doling out "fun facts," which are absolutely never fun or factual.) Even if you remove the agenda pushing, they simply don't know how to do honest research, statistical analysis, or basic logic. Probably because it's been effectively illegal to criticize them for a very long time. In this case, it looks like journos attributed a baseless claim to some professor who never made it, and it was subsequently repeated so often that the guy who finally debunked it wasn't even sure whom he was debunking.

This sort of thing happens frequently in that quarter. The claim may even be much more ridiculous than the pink-for-boys thing--the sort of claim that doesn't stand up to 15 seconds of lazy scrutiny--and yet it will be repeated, over and over, uncritically, until no one can remember where it came from, just that it's been mentioned in the New York Times, and Vanity Fair quoted the New York Times' mention of it, and Wapo quoted Vanity Fair's quoting of it, and now it's in an official Google presentation, #InternationalWomensDay, etc, etc, and it is simply The Truth™.

 

[baba is you]

Tim Cain has been negative about Wasteland's connection to Fallout since before the video was uploaded, and I'm not sure if it's his pride or if there's something he can't talk about.

Or maybe he still has bad feelings about Fargo. If Tim still has bad feelings about Fargo and keeps making these claims, it would be an interesting drama.

 

[KainenMorden]

I wouldn't say it's a myth exactly but perhaps saying pink was for boys is an exaggeration. It was not considered a feminine color as it is today and boys did wear dress like garments until they were around 6 years old and a pastel like pink was common. This tradition went on in Europe for some time before the U.S was established.

Id have to dig deeper and I don't trust Wikipedia 100 percent but I did attend lectures where several college professors felt wiki could be a good starting point for research. If this is to be believed, both traditions of pink for boys, blue for girls and vice versa co existed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historical_sources_for_pink_and_blue_as_gender_signifiers

I do agree with the rest of your post of leftwing media outright fabricating certain things and pushing agendas that way.

 

[just]

this guy has a lot to say

 

[Infinitron]

Well then:

I talk about putting "touchy subjects" into games, things like violence or drug use or nudity, and how to approach their inclusion.

 

[NecroLord]

Does he also talk about pushing homosexuality and LGBTQ in games?


Oh wait...

 

[Roguey]

We wanted to address a lot of social things in Arcanum. We wanted to address racism, we wanted to address classism, we wanted to address wealth inequality, and this is all back in the late 90s and so what we did, and we knew that would cause problems even back then, so we bundled it all up into this mythical fantasy world where it was all acted out on things that didn't feel so directed at modern day society.

Wokeanum.

Sometimes you want to make a statement, and by the way for people going "yeah, modern games," games have always made statements. Games in the ' 80s and '90s made statements. They made political statements, they made societal statements, you may not notice, but they did.

Tim in the "games have always been political camp" which is partially true. I mean yeah, Ultima 6 was political. Fallout touches on political subjects. But what political and societal statements did the original Wizardry make?

 

[Alienman]

Games are art*

*But you have to remove sensitive parts if the publisher requests it.

 

[AndyS]

Sometimes you want to make a statement, and by the way for people going "yeah, modern games," games have always made statements. Games in the ' 80s and '90s made statements. They made political statements, they made societal statements, you may not notice, but they did.

Tim in the "games have always been political camp" which is partially true. I mean yeah, Ultima 6 was political. Fallout touches on political subjects. But what political and societal statements did the original Wizardry make?

The "always political" stuff tends to gloss over that the creators understood they would alienate at least half of the audience if they started preaching and propagandizing, so they would usually stop at the "just giving you stuff to think about" stage. Wokism goes the full mile into "you're literally Hitler if you don't agree with every single batshit thing we say".

 

[Wasteland]

I wouldn't say it's a myth exactly but perhaps saying pink was for boys is an exaggeration. It was not considered a feminine color as it is today and boys did wear dress like garments until they were around 6 years old and a pastel like pink was common. This tradition went on in Europe for some time before the U.S was established.

Id have to dig deeper and I don't trust Wikipedia 100 percent but I did attend lectures where several college professors felt wiki could be a good starting point for research. If this is to be believed, both traditions of pink for boys, blue for girls and vice versa co existed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historical_sources_for_pink_and_blue_as_gender_signifiers

I do agree with the rest of your post of leftwing media outright fabricating certain things and pushing agendas that way.

Right, the myth is in the exaggeration. Basically they took a claim that "there's no evidence of Americans widely using pink for girls and blue for boys prior to the era of mass media culture," which is entirely reasonable, and turned it into "pink was THE MASCULINE COLOR, LMAO." The former is a statement of uncertainty; the latter is a statement of certainty. This is not a small difference.

It isn't just leftwing media. It's the entire edifice, the pipeline from The Academy on up. There is a SHOCKING lack of rigor in these fields. Whether their claims are true or not in any particular instance is almost beside the point, if they have no basis for them, and no one bothers to verify. That's how we ended up with "women own only 1% of the world's property," for example, a claim which is farcically stupid on its face.

Multiple published papers stated that Paoletti established a clear norm, prior to the 1940s, for boys wearing pink and girls wearing blue. And yet she never did.

I don't disagree with the idea that pink-for-girls is a learned, rather than an innate, preference, but unfortunately no one serious has really ever claimed the opposite. It's yet another smarmy non-sequitur in the battle of "sex roles do not exist but for oppressive social norms." If they can get you nodding along to the uncontroversial idea that pink wasn't always widely associated with girls, maybe you won't notice that their larger argument is full of holes.

 

[0sacred]

He does have a point that certain societal norms have been taught and accepted and then changed.

Ask Tim if he thinks men and women might be genetically wired to like different things, I'm sure you can guess the answer

 

[ds]

The "always political" stuff tends to gloss over that the creators understood they would alienate at least half of the audience if they started preaching and propagandizing, so they would usually stop at the "just giving you stuff to think about" stage. Wokism goes the full mile into "you're literally Hitler if you don't agree with every single batshit thing we say".

Can't risk players coming to the wrong conclusions.

 

[Roguey]

This gives Cain the frowny face on multiple levels.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

This gives Cain the frowny face on multiple levels.

This short entry is full of things that would be unacceptable today, but are true.

We live in a society of fear.

 

[Roguey]

This short entry is full of things that would be unacceptable today, but are true.

We live in a society of fear.

I don't think anyone can argue against how more women got into D&D and role-playing in general precisely because they became more about socialization and theatrics than gaming, just like Gary said.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

This short entry is full of things that would be unacceptable today, but are true.

We live in a society of fear.

I don't think anyone can argue against how more women got into D&D and role-playing in general precisely because they became more about socialization and theatrics than gaming, just like Gary said.

Hence why women are more into stuff like White Wolf rather than wargaming.

 

[NecroLord]

We wanted to address a lot of social things in Arcanum. We wanted to address racism, we wanted to address classism, we wanted to address wealth inequality, and this is all back in the late 90s and so what we did, and we knew that would cause problems even back then, so we bundled it all up into this mythical fantasy world where it was all acted out on things that didn't feel so directed at modern day society.

Wokeanum.

Sometimes you want to make a statement, and by the way for people going "yeah, modern games," games have always made statements. Games in the ' 80s and '90s made statements. They made political statements, they made societal statements, you may not notice, but they did.

Tim in the "games have always been political camp" which is partially true. I mean yeah, Ultima 6 was political. Fallout touches on political subjects. But what political and societal statements did the original Wizardry make?

Faggot can't help himself but get all political and shit.
However, he did it in a clever and relatively "mature" way, instead of the "in your face" and completely vulgar approach of today.