Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

[Alienman]

You think Tim wanted to try out Leonard's Vault opening?

Vault 69, am I right?

 

[NecroLord]

You think Tim wanted to try out Leonard's Vault opening?

Vault 69, am I right?

That's the one with only a single dude among a few hundreds of women, I think...

 

[BlackAdderBG]

some email chains presumably related to Pillars of Eternity and thought "glad that's not me that has to deal with this,"

For all its faults Pillars is 10 times better than anything Shit Cain was involved with after Troika. Boyarsky as well, his work on Diablo 3 and Outer Worlds is so bad that I question all of their role in Troika just by what utter shit they produced after. My theory is they were so rapt up in the idea of mass market console shit that made them embarrassed about stuff like ToEE and Arcanum. Funny thing is they are 5-10 years late to the show, now when Biowere and Bethesda are on death bed and TBRPGs are all the rage.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

There was a good game deep in there somewhere but they were not able to bring it to the surface.

I'll never understand why Private Division didn't see the swirl of free marketing that The Outer Worlds was getting thanks to Bethesda gang raping the pooch with Fallout 76, then give Obsidian more time and extra funding to crank out what people who obviously expecting at that point. You're rarely ever handed a marketing event you can capitalize on like what happened with this game, and they totally dropped the ball by sticking to the guns on it. It sold great, but that's because of that event. And now yo want a sequel to a game most people consider the interactive equivalent of eating cardboard. I'm not even talking about hardcore gamers, either. The mainstream sites were saying it was "just okay" a few months after the release.

But "just okay" doesn't really cut it with the hype that was tossed their way after Fallout 76's debacle of a release.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

That's the one with only a single dude among a few hundreds of women, I think...

Tim's worst nightmare.

 

[Roguey]

There was a good game deep in there somewhere but they were not able to bring it to the surface.

I'll never understand why Private Division didn't see the swirl of free marketing that The Outer Worlds was getting thanks to Bethesda gang raping the pooch with Fallout 76, then give Obsidian more time and extra funding to crank out what people who obviously expecting at that point. You're rarely ever handed a marketing event you can capitalize on like what happened with this game, and they totally dropped the ball by sticking to the guns on it. It sold great, but that's because of that event. And now yo want a sequel to a game most people consider the interactive equivalent of eating cardboard. I'm not even talking about hardcore gamers, either. The mainstream sites were saying it was "just okay" a few months after the release.

But "just okay" doesn't really cut it with the hype that was tossed their way after Fallout 76's debacle of a release.

When the money's not there, it's not there https://www.videogameschronicle.com...vision-staff-reportedly-laid-off-by-take-two/ https://www.gamedeveloper.com/busin...ill-either-sell-or-shut-down-private-division

 

[PunchYouInTheFace]

Who wins?

Saint proverballs' assumptions (coughing baby) vs. Private Division financial capability (hydrogen bomb).

--

The Outer World should've been Isometric cRPG. The fact that it needs to be "Fallout (New Vegas) in Space" proof how detrimental FNV impact has been to FPP CRPG-like games.

 

[KainenMorden]

The Outer World should've been Isometric cRPG. The fact that it needs to be "Fallout (New Vegas) in Space" proof how detrimental FNV impact has been to FPP CRPG-like games.

Seems more like it's proof Pillars didn't sell too well.

I haven't played many newer games besides PF Kingmaker, that was a modest success by crpg standards and despite console ports and hiw easy it is to learn about and purchase games nowadays, its sales numbers are comparable to how well BG2 did the first 5 years after release.

I followed the CRPG scene a bit the past 2 years, BG3 is really an anomaly as it sold very well but is tb and has a DND ruleset. Basically any similar game that I know of that's come out the past 20 years or so hasnt been terribly successful besides D: OS2 and BG3 allegedly has sold double of what that game did.

I can't blame Obsidian for trying to make something that would appeal to a larger demographic. They tried making a more traditional crpg and it didn't work out well enough to continue in that direction. Sawyer wants a huge budget to try that type of game again and I don't think he's just being dramatic about it. He feels like they won't make money if they don't have big money to produce something that could compete with BG3.

I guess there's something special about Larian. After the success of BG3 maybe we will get more games that are similar in the future.

 

[NecroLord]

I can't blame Obsidian for trying to make something that would appeal to a larger demographic.

Heh...
Yeah, for a more "modern audience", right?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

When the money's not there, it's not there https://www.videogameschronicle.com...vision-staff-reportedly-laid-off-by-take-two/ https://www.gamedeveloper.com/busin...ill-either-sell-or-shut-down-private-division

That's the money not being there now. Between Outer Worlds and now, they've managed to release a handful of questionable titles and canceled others. There's also the debacle of KSP2's Early Access, which was probably financial, but they absolutely wrecked the chances for that title to succeed.

 

[Wesp5]

Isn't Grounded a huge success?

 

[normie]

Isn't Grounded a huge success?

FOR ME TO POOP ON

 

[Infinitron]

I talk about all the times I was underestimated...by teachers, by schoolmates, by work colleagues. It feels like the opposite of impostor syndrome.

Isn't Grounded a huge success?

For Obsidian and Microsoft, not for Private Division.

 

[Old Hans]

Isn't Grounded a huge success?

that game is like a TV show that's been on for 30 seasons, but you've never seen a single person talk about it.

 

[PunchYouInTheFace]

The Outer World should've been Isometric cRPG. The fact that it needs to be "Fallout (New Vegas) in Space" proof how detrimental FNV impact has been to FPP CRPG-like games.

Seems more like it's proof Pillars didn't sell too well.

I haven't played many newer games besides PF Kingmaker, that was a modest success by crpg standards and despite console ports and hiw easy it is to learn about and purchase games nowadays, its sales numbers are comparable to how well BG2 did the first 5 years after release.

I followed the CRPG scene a bit the past 2 years, BG3 is really an anomaly as it sold very well but is tb and has a DND ruleset. Basically any similar game that I know of that's come out the past 20 years or so hasnt been terribly successful besides D: OS2 and BG3 allegedly has sold double of what that game did.

I can't blame Obsidian for trying to make something that would appeal to a larger demographic. They tried making a more traditional crpg and it didn't work out well enough to continue in that direction. Sawyer wants a huge budget to try that type of game again and I don't think he's just being dramatic about it. He feels like they won't make money if they don't have big money to produce something that could compete with BG3.

I guess there's something special about Larian. After the success of BG3 maybe we will get more games that are similar in the future.

Plenty of explanation.

My understanding is:

5e is fairly popular for being a relatively easier to understand ruleset compared to prior iteration. Larian is known to have successfully made an RPG that is inclusive enough that everyone, not just regular cRPG folk, can enjoy (even for those who are not familiar with RPG, DOS2 was easy enough to understand to play and enjoy). It's a perfect match.

Baldur's Gate 3 is the logical conclusion of both 5e and Larian's philosophy. Some hate it, but evidently much more people loved it.

 

[NecroLord]

I talk about all the times I was underestimated...by teachers, by schoolmates, by work colleagues. It feels like the opposite of impostor syndrome.

Isn't Grounded a huge success?

For Obsidian and Microsoft, not for Private Division.

Careful who you call ugly in high school...

 

[PunchYouInTheFace]

Isn't Grounded a huge success?

that game is like a TV show that's been on for 30 seasons, but you've never seen a single person talk about it.

This is that one time where you should bask in the experience of not being the target audience of thing.

It has 50k+ user review on Steam. Recently traditional audience affirming RPG Skald barely hitting their target sales.

I tried grounded, it's good casual game you would be interested in playing after works. I think the target audience are kids and adults.

 

[Roguey]

"They misunderestimated me," - George W Bush and Tim Cain

When the money's not there, it's not there https://www.videogameschronicle.com...vision-staff-reportedly-laid-off-by-take-two/ https://www.gamedeveloper.com/busin...ill-either-sell-or-shut-down-private-division

That's the money not being there now. Between Outer Worlds and now, they've managed to release a handful of questionable titles and canceled others. There's also the debacle of KSP2's Early Access, which was probably financial, but they absolutely wrecked the chances for that title to succeed.

There's a lot of risk in putting all your eggs in one basket.

With the label's formation on December 14, 2017, Take-Two announced four games already in the works to be published under the label: The Outer Worlds from Obsidian Entertainment, Darkborn (originally as working title Project Wight) from The Outsiders, Disintegration from V1 Interactive, and Ancestors: The Humankind Odyssey from Panache Digital Games. Additionally, Kerbal Space Program, acquired earlier by Take-Two from Squad, will be re-published under the Private Division label.[6][5] In the case of Darkborn, some time in 2018, Private Division and The Outsiders decided to go separate ways, with Private Division stating that they continued to support The Outsiders for several months after the termination of the contract.

They got rid of one and had two others, both games being pretty small. They didn't have a lot of money to throw around.

The Outer World should've been Isometric cRPG.

An isometric crpg from Obsidian would not have sold over 5 million copies. We have proof of that in Pillars, Pillars 2, and Tyranny.

 

[Yosharian]

Cain is irrelevant.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Deadfire was and still is visually stunning, build on that technology, sprinkle some Cain&Boyarsky magic on top and who knows, could've been a hit.

Question is would Private Division fund it. Probably not.

 

[Silverfish]

Cain will be relevant as long as the genre exists and "what have you done for me lately" is poison.

 

[Yosharian]

Some hasbeen game developer who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about now, and it's questionable if he ever did. This cunt is relevant? Give it a fucking rest.

"Fallout is a great show" this dude is fucking done.

 

[Silverfish]

When you're one of the key people behind Fallout, you're allowed to have bad takes.

 

[Alienman]

Sure, but I think it comes with a limit still.

 

[scytheavatar]

The Outer World should've been Isometric cRPG. The fact that it needs to be "Fallout (New Vegas) in Space" proof how detrimental FNV impact has been to FPP CRPG-like games.

Seems more like it's proof Pillars didn't sell too well.

I haven't played many newer games besides PF Kingmaker, that was a modest success by crpg standards and despite console ports and hiw easy it is to learn about and purchase games nowadays, its sales numbers are comparable to how well BG2 did the first 5 years after release.

I followed the CRPG scene a bit the past 2 years, BG3 is really an anomaly as it sold very well but is tb and has a DND ruleset. Basically any similar game that I know of that's come out the past 20 years or so hasnt been terribly successful besides D: OS2 and BG3 allegedly has sold double of what that game did.

I can't blame Obsidian for trying to make something that would appeal to a larger demographic. They tried making a more traditional crpg and it didn't work out well enough to continue in that direction. Sawyer wants a huge budget to try that type of game again and I don't think he's just being dramatic about it. He feels like they won't make money if they don't have big money to produce something that could compete with BG3.

I guess there's something special about Larian. After the success of BG3 maybe we will get more games that are similar in the future.

Larian never made games with the aim of "appealing to a larger demographic", they made games they wanted to make and then believe the audience would support them. Successful studios like CDPR and Fromsoft did the same thing.

Like you said DOS2 is already far more successful than anything Obsidian has done other than New Vegas and Sawyer is being delusional if he thinks he can make a game of BG3's success with BG3 money.