Cain on Games - Tim Cain's new YouTube channel

[Roguey]

Yeah, this is crap. Didn't Oblivion address this 17 years ago?

(Oblivion came out 17 years ago. JFC.)

Tim said they left it this way on purpose because it was fun and mentioned that Arcanum did not do this, monsters would remain where they were and aggressive for a while

 

[Infinitron]

Relevant to Codexers?

I talk about how to give good feedback on game design, specifically how to keep the feedback relevant and actionable.

 

[Butter]

What good is customer feedback if he never makes a sequel?

 

[Roguey]

Relevant to Codexers?

All this seems to be advice for other developers while in they're in the process of making it, not fans criticizing a released title.

Tim's forever seething whenever an Urquhart/Parker-type gives him empty criticism.

 

[Infinitron]

I talk about my experiences at Troika Games and why I won't run another company.

 

[Roguey]

Those dishonorable employee stories are great. People stealing cases of soda, racking up $1000 in international phone bills, negotiating for a pay raise/promotion and then immediately using that as leverage for a better offer at another company. I can respect the hustlegrinding of the last one. I bet Ferret Baudoin dabbled in a bit of all that when he jumped from Obsidian to Bioware in the middle of NWN2.

 

[deama]

Speaking to the progression question, I prefer the metroidvania approach the best.
The oddities from underrail isn't bad, but it still doesn't make enough sense, e.g. you find some nicknack and it gives you exp? What?
What if instead, you find a serum, and that serum gives you an attribute point to spend how you like.
Or how about you find a really rare book with some "ancient secrets" that gives you a few points in skills for you to distribute?

I'll officially coin it as the "metroidvania progression system", you can quote me on that!

With other systems like how bloodlines does it, rewarding based on quests, I don't really like that either, it has some of the problems that the traditional system has, though not as bad. It essentially creates a problem in that your character becomes stronger, whilst the world remains "flat" type of issue, and trying to "upgrade" everyone else is a nightmare in terms of balancing and narrative etc...

You might be thinking though "yeah, but then why isn't everyone else getting stronger by finding these serums or books either?" It's because it doesn't hit as hard. Finding these items you can easily hide it within the story, such as the player character is just "lucky" so they end up finding a lot of these items, or just tie it into a specific reason, like the player character has a special ability that allows him to "extract" or "use" these serums, that's why he's growing stronger so quickly compared to everyone else.
From quests though it's iffy because quests are a lot more common, they're a lot harder to mask it, and therefore feel more artificial in that regard.

 

[PapaPetro]

I talk about my experiences at Troika Games and why I won't run another company.

Alright, which one of you did it?

A former (disgruntled) employee maybe?
Fargo

Those dishonorable employee stories are great.

 

[Jaesun]

That was a really cool watch to see all the demoralizing and just pure frustration of why Troika shut down. Really happy to see him just openly talk about this shit.

 

[PapaPetro]

That was a really cool watch to see all the demoralizing and just pure frustration of why Troika shut down. Really happy to see him just openly talk about this shit.

Takes balls/is based.

 

[Bad Sector]

Tim's a light-hearted guy who wanted to make a game with a Futurama/Rick and Morty vibe. Apparently those aren't tiresome tropes to him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

FWIW i don't think that specific description you wrote are tiresome tropes, at least in games, as they haven't really been done much (to become tiresome). Or at least i haven't paid any attention.

I think a lighthearted RPG with a Futurama vibe (haven't watched R&M) would be nice, i can't really think of anything negative about it.

But i don't think that describes The Outer Worlds, starting from the fact that it couldn't even decide if it was lighthearted or not.

Relevant to Codexers?

No, the answer was clearly intended for developers. I think he also kinda misunderstood the question, the user who made it most likely meant "how can players provide actionable feedback" instead of "how can other team members in the game that is under development

I talk about my experiences at Troika Games and why I won't run another company.

Nice video though i get the impression he could hire someone to do the whole "running the company" stuff. I remember reading "Masters of Doom", the largest part of which is about id Software's history and their first hire was Jay Wilbur whose entire job was to run the company so that the others can focus on developing the games.

People stealing cases of soda

That is petty as fuck :-P. Meanwhile when i worked at companies that had free stuff in the kitchen, i remember thinking it was a waste when people opened a new carton of milk while an existing one was already open.

 

[SpaceWizardz]

But i don't think that describes The Outer Worlds, starting from the fact that it couldn't even decide if it was lighthearted or not.

It isn't.
Outer Worlds is a miserable setting that uses wacky humor to try and alleviate how aggravatingly nihilistic (and boring) it generally is.

 

[Infinitron]

I talk about how to pick the best class in Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, based on a rejected article I wrote for The Dragon magazine in the 1980s.

 

[Roguey]

Lilura-before-Lilura

 

[Forest Dweller]

I talk about my experiences at Troika Games and why I won't run another company.

Alright, which one of you did it?

A former (disgruntled) employee maybe?

Those dishonorable employee stories are great.

How are you seeing dislikes?

Actually that looks like what you might see when YOU click dislike.

 

[ferratilis]

Also available on Chrome and Edge:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/return-youtube-dislikes/

In his case, it looks like he clicked 'like.' Here's how it looks without dark mode:

 

[Butter]

Tim Cain signaling is dementia by praising Fallout 4's radiation system.

 

[ferratilis]

He likes BG1 more than 2. Tim is Lilura, confirmed.

 

[0sacred]

Tim Cain signaling is dementia by praising Fallout 4's radiation system.

also praising procedural generation

 

[Roguey]

Tim's favorite Ultima is 3, very hipster opinion.

Tim was impressed by the procedural generation of Diablo since apparently he had never played or heard of Rogue or its like before.

 

[Bad Sector]

Tim Cain signaling is dementia by praising Fallout 4's radiation system.

If you take the system in isolation (since he's referring to specific aspects of games, not their entirety) which excludes F4's broken economy that makes all that stuff moot, i think the way Tim describes it sound like a good idea - and IIRC it is basically very similar to VtmB's aggravated health damage (ignoring how you gain that damage, just how it is presented and limits your available health).

Tim was impressed by the procedural generation of Diablo since apparently he had never played or heard of Rogue or its like before.

He did play Rogue, he just liked how Diablo mixed procedural with handmade elements and how good these looked. From a comment:

I played plenty of Rogue back in my Unix days at UCI. I guess seeing Diablo do procedural generation married seamlessly with handmade content in the same level and with nice graphics just made a big impact on me.

 

[Butter]

If you take the system in isolation (since he's referring to specific aspects of games, not their entirety) which excludes F4's broken economy that makes all that stuff moot, i think the way Tim describes it sound like a good idea - and IIRC it is basically very similar to VtmB's aggravated health damage (ignoring how you gain that damage, just how it is presented and limits your available health).

I think it completely misses the point of radiation as a silent killer to show it so blatantly on the UI. Radiation should be something that sneaks up on you and has various effects, like reduced strength or endurance. It was a lot better in Fallout 1 when you'd leave the Glow and fall over dead a few tiles later, not realizing you had taken a lethal dose until it was too late. It made radiation scary.

 

[Bad Sector]

I think it completely misses the point of radiation as a silent killer to show it so blatantly on the UI. Radiation should be something that sneaks up on you and has various effects, like reduced strength or endurance. It was a lot better in Fallout 1 when you'd leave the Glow and fall over dead a few tiles later, not realizing you had taken a lethal dose until it was too late. It made radiation scary.

My understanding from Tim's video was that he was referring to individual gameplay elements outside of the rest of the game, so i don't think the Fallout 1/2 comparison applies here. As you wrote, the effects in Fallout 1/2 are different from Fallout 4 so they aren't really comparable as individual elements, you can only compare them in how they affect the entire game.

Basically think of it not as "i am going to make a new Fallout, let's use Fallout 4's radiation mechanics" but more as "i am going to make a brand new game and i want some straightforward way to limit the player's health based on some special situations, the Fallout 4 mechanic for radiation was neat, let's start from that".

(this is also why i brought up VtmB's aggravated health damage, taken in isolation they're both very similar - obviously VtmB's aggravated health damage doesn't even apply to Fallout 4's theme so there isn't much point in comparing them thematically)

Of course game mechanics do not exist in isolation, after all Fallout 4's radiation mechanic becomes pointless when mixed with the rest of the game, but still a good idea can exist alongside several bad ideas (or even alongside several good ideas that cancel each other out) - the trick is recognizing it and knowing where that idea can be applied so that it makes sense in the context of a game (and that is something that the game designer can do).

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I wrote this under his video, hoping I will beat reason unto his head:

" I don't understand why you feel the need to satisfy all the people with your book Tim. You have made a few games, you should have already have learned that no matter what you do not everyone will be happy. Publish the book you like and believe that accurately portraits the events. Otherwise someone who does not worry himself with being only 98% accurate will publish his 25% accurate books and it will sway publish perception. You worry about getting a few details wrong is why so often the good guys lose."

 

[Eirinjas]

I wrote this under his video, hoping I will beat reason unto his head:

" I don't understand why you feel the need to satisfy all the people with your book Tim. You have made a few games, you should have already have learned that no matter what you do not everyone will be happy. Publish the book you like and believe that accurately portraits the events. Otherwise someone who does not worry himself with being only 98% accurate will publish his 25% accurate books and it will sway publish perception. You worry about getting a few details wrong is why so often the good guys lose."

I was more succinct:

"You didn't write that book to sit on just your shelf. You should man up, accept you can't please everyone all of the time, and put the book out."