CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

[AwesomeButton]

One of the virtues of the storytelling-by-shard-drop-on-body-or-in-case is that you can have lots of interweaving micro-stories because you don't need the voice acting.

It's not really a virtue. It's a compromise which was first made in System Shock if memory serves me. And since then it has always been a compromise. If your medium is a 3D game, especially first person, you should tell stories using this medium. What they are doing is take the player out of the experience of the 3D first person game and say "Hey, you get to be a reader for 2 minutes and then you can go back". The chat history / conversation logs are just the cheap and dirty way of adding an excuse for the lack of characterisation, but are not real characterisation. Especially in this kind of setting. No, I'm not illiterate, no, I don't hate reading, no I'm not ADHD. But these lore bits delivered as text simply don't mesh well with the rest of the game.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

Remember when i told i saw the game live and was nothing special and people would not believe me?... I do.

And now i am laughting my ass of.

That would first require to remember you exist in first place.

Ahah true!
However if i was remembered probably some folk would had saved some money avoiding to spend 60 bucks in this half baked game.

 

[Ezeekiel]

One of the virtues of the storytelling-by-shard-drop-on-body-or-in-case is that you can have lots of interweaving micro-stories because you don't need the voice acting.

It's not really a virtue. It's a compromise which was first made in System Shock if memory serves me. And since then it has always been a compromise. If your medium is a 3D game, especially first person, you should tell stories using this medium. What they are doing is take the player out of the experience of the 3D first person game and say "Hey, you get to be a reader for 2 minutes and then you can go back". The chat history / conversation logs are just the cheap and dirty way of adding an excuse for the lack of characterisation, but are not real characterisation. Especially in this kind of setting. No, I'm not illiterate, no, I don't hate reading, no I'm not ADHD. But these lore bits delivered as text simply don't mesh well with the rest of the game.

There's also just way too many.

I stopped caring after shard number 5000000 which explained to me why tyger claw asshole #5913139254 was all sad and missing his mommy or whatever.
They went for quantity over quality a lot, and also hid interesting background stuff relating to other missions in logs and e-mails in regular encounters.

It's just like the loot system, 99% trash which tires you out and makes you stop giving a shit so you end up disassembling some iconic gun you could have used by accident along with all the garbage.

The whole checklist/collectathon/borderlands/gta aspect took too much of their resources which would have been better spent on fewer, deeper storylines and characters, more conversation/personality options and proper challenges.

 

[Caim]

remember when mebrilia threw a fit a few years back when cyberpunk was confirmed to be first person and she couldn't play dress up anymore

You can still play dressup, the first person view is just a mechanic so you don't need to behold the abomination you put together to have the best stats.

 

[Ezeekiel]

Gotta say, the guy some pages ago who criticized the panam storyline and her character was spot on... Finally got around to actually doing that one and yeah. Don't really like the voice actress for that char either. The direction is annoying/neurotic (intentionally, I guess) and the voice doesn't really seem right for some tough nomad chick 50-something years into the future.

Same with director Abernathy in the corp start btw in that short segment where she calls your boss after the space counsel thing. Throw in a bunch of random instances of "... like, " and she could have been a Current Year Girl (tm).

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

remember when mebrilia threw a fit a few years back when cyberpunk was confirmed to be first person and she couldn't play dress up anymore

You can still play dressup, the first person view is just a mechanic so you don't need to behold the abomination you put together to have the best stats.

Dressing up is part of the pen and paper as well. How you dress contribute at how you appear shaping the attitude of those that you meet. Look is a important part in the setting.
But good luck to explain that to the people that loves to trow out air from the mouth not knowing anything about the setting. :D

 

[gurugeorge]

One of the virtues of the storytelling-by-shard-drop-on-body-or-in-case is that you can have lots of interweaving micro-stories because you don't need the voice acting.

I've said this before but I'll say it again: that's one reason why the cop quests are actually a proper part of the game and shouldn't be artificially skipped (ofc if you're just following your nose that's fine). There's actually a lot of decent writing on those shards, small tragedies, tales of betrayal, etc. - even one that makes you feel like a heel because you realize you've just killed a bunch of gangoons holding a sweet little birthday party for their choom

The problem that you feel like Robocop for doing the cop quests is another problem - clearly the game should have made some accommodation for the gangster's path - but that way of telling stories is as good in this as it's always been in immersive sims, and it doesn't require expensive voice-acting.

There is merit in what you have said but people buy games to play them. If I wanted to read novels I would go to a bookstore. There is just too much of those shards left in the game for players to pick-up. I would rather like if there were handful of those shards and some of them hidden in computers which the player needs to interact in some way to progress a quest. For example in Fallout 2 you find only handful of holodisks and some have passwords written on them to bypass security or give you hints on what you might find in a location. In Cyberpunk 2077 you get shards almost everywhere and very often do not affect gameplay in anyway. After picking up 20 of those describing things which are shown on TV ads, radio broadcasts and none of those helping me with exploration I've stopped reading them. The UI doesn't help. If I have to scroll down a message every 8 lines then I will just skip it. Again Fallout 2 had 20 lines of text on a 800x600 resolution and it made reading some of the more lengthy files much more enjoyable.

EDIT: In Red Dead Redemption 2 you get something like 10 letters? And newspapers describing your activities? I feel more inclined to read those than 100+ files in CP2077 left in the most stupid locations like Konpeki Plaza where I am chased by corpos and shouldn't be looting all that shit every 5 meters.

You find important info on computers too in a lot of the quests - for example in some of the cyberpsycho gigs, even some of the cop spots too.

And I'm not talking about the shards you pick up from shelves and desks ofc, those are definitely just lore fluff for the most part, and not necessary to read at the time (I never do I just grab them and maybe read a few on the odd occasion). I'm talking specifically about the shards and messages that are either on the dead bodies or cases or bags at the scenes of crimes that, when you pick them up, "complete" the cop quests. Those are the ones that have actual story fragments about the circumstances surrounding the criminal activity you've just nipped in the bud on them, those are the ones comparable to the recording tapes in the classic immersive sims (the Shocks, Deus Ex, etc.), which fill in a background sense of the world, not in a prosaic way, but usually in the form of fragments of dialogue or messages back and forth.

Re. text: the classic games many love here are filled with text. Some reading as you go has always been part of these types of games.

The UI in this has lots of problems, I won't argue with you there

 

[alyvain]

It's not really a virtue. It's a compromise which was first made in System Shock if memory serves me. And since then it has always been a compromise. If your medium is a 3D game, especially first person, you should tell stories using this medium. What they are doing is take the player out of the experience of the 3D first person game and say "Hey, you get to be a reader for 2 minutes and then you can go back". The chat history / conversation logs are just the cheap and dirty way of adding an excuse for the lack of characterisation, but are not real characterisation. Especially in this kind of setting. No, I'm not illiterate, no, I don't hate reading, no I'm not ADHD. But these lore bits delivered as text simply don't mesh well with the rest of the game.

This stuff mostly reminds me of indie-horror games. It can work, but I'm honestly very tired of this type of narrative presentation.

Another thing that strangely irks me is the "now the game is in slow-mo, no sprinting available" when

Spoiler

V tries to get to a Kiroshi's control panel in the ending

. Marauder Shields, anyone?

 

[gurugeorge]

One of the virtues of the storytelling-by-shard-drop-on-body-or-in-case is that you can have lots of interweaving micro-stories because you don't need the voice acting.

It's not really a virtue. It's a compromise which was first made in System Shock if memory serves me. And since then it has always been a compromise. If your medium is a 3D game, especially first person, you should tell stories using this medium. What they are doing is take the player out of the experience of the 3D first person game and say "Hey, you get to be a reader for 2 minutes and then you can go back". The chat history / conversation logs are just the cheap and dirty way of adding an excuse for the lack of characterisation, but are not real characterisation. Especially in this kind of setting. No, I'm not illiterate, no, I don't hate reading, no I'm not ADHD. But these lore bits delivered as text simply don't mesh well with the rest of the game.

I don't know about you, but sometimes I read things in real life too So it's perfectly appropriate for a character in an 1st or 3rd person RPG to do so. Notably, one has just had a hectic minute or two clearing out a quest, so there's a certain rhythm of action and relaxation there, and discovering what the scenario I've just come across was all about is actually something I have an interest in, in that moment of rest, and I imagine it would be the same in real life. And actually with some of them the story IS also told in the visual medium itself - the dead body the thieves have just killed, the antenna the fools have been setting up, etc., etc. But you can't do "plaintive tone" in the visual medium, whereas you can when some poor gonk is complaining to a gangoon about something in a fragment of conversation.

(Btw it just occurred to me the other day, I wonder if some of those antenna-setting-up crim acts are - or rather were at one time - related to the Peralez quest? Are some of them the same type of antique kit, like a big box with an antenna on top? If memory serves, yes. One pictures the hypothetical AI using proxies to hire criminals to get the job done! )

No I don't think found texts and voice recordings are a compromise, they're part of the "gameplay" in the larger sense, they add, they do not detract. YMMV ofc.

 

[Turjan]

As these shards sometimes give you new quests, you are basically forced to read them, if you want to get those quests. Although, most of the time, these "quests" just lead to a location where you can pick something up. Some of the Tyger Claws shards deal with the same persons, so you actually get some longer story in the end.

I don't mind reading them. It's a quiet moment.

 

[res11]

So this is how it works? You make a game with fancy graphic 5 linear but well written quests then you fill the map with gigs ((clear the bandit camp style)) ship it with a crappy perk system and a loot system ala borderland and you have a damn fine game?...

Wow....low standardt much?

Should have had these high standards when Witcher 3 came out bucko

 

[moon knight]

One of the virtues of the storytelling-by-shard-drop-on-body-or-in-case is that you can have lots of interweaving micro-stories because you don't need the voice acting.

It's not really a virtue. It's a compromise which was first made in System Shock if memory serves me. And since then it has always been a compromise. If your medium is a 3D game, especially first person, you should tell stories using this medium. What they are doing is take the player out of the experience of the 3D first person game and say "Hey, you get to be a reader for 2 minutes and then you can go back". The chat history / conversation logs are just the cheap and dirty way of adding an excuse for the lack of characterisation, but are not real characterisation. Especially in this kind of setting. No, I'm not illiterate, no, I don't hate reading, no I'm not ADHD. But these lore bits delivered as text simply don't mesh well with the rest of the game.

If only they had a gameplay system that allowed the player to relive the stories you find in the shards...

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

So this is how it works? You make a game with fancy graphic 5 linear but well written quests then you fill the map with gigs ((clear the bandit camp style)) ship it with a crappy perk system and a loot system ala borderland and you have a damn fine game?...

Wow....low standardt much?

Should have had these high standards when Witcher 3 came out bucko

To be honest witcher 3 had way more outcome in side content than cyberpunk 2077. And that is the odd thing. Witcher had a predefined character however it was possible to do different choice with vast different outcomes as you progressed in the main story but also in the side quest. Cyberpunk is just linear and that's it. Choices there have no concequences at all the different endings minus one are dictated by the choice of 1 single dialogue. Side content is straight forward and linear. I know it sounds very odd to say however. Witcher 3 even being more an action game than a proper rpg had way more roleplay elements than cyberpunk 2077

 

[Ibn Sina]

Has anyone noticed Mr Blue Eyes appearing in main quests? He always appears always on the periphery, from balcony or a perch watching. You cannot attack him, V lowers their weapons when they aim at him, and when you scan him this is the result:

 

[Caim]

remember when mebrilia threw a fit a few years back when cyberpunk was confirmed to be first person and she couldn't play dress up anymore

You can still play dressup, the first person view is just a mechanic so you don't need to behold the abomination you put together to have the best stats.

Dressing up is part of the pen and paper as well. How you dress contribute at how you appear shaping the attitude of those that you meet. Look is a important part in the setting.
But good luck to explain that to the people that loves to trow out air from the mouth not knowing anything about the setting. :D

I know. Chromebook 4 even has rules on how to make your own protective clothing. But in the tabletop you can balance protenction against mobility mobility offered by an armored trenchcoat, heavy duty pants and combat boots or a protective jump suit with a jacket and comfortable shoe. Hell, it even jokes that you can wrap four scarves aroun your neck to become unable to move your head but also shrug off rifle bullets. I get that. But what Cyberpunk 2077 does is this:



That's just dumb.

 

[Mebrilia the Viera Queen]

There this is how much rpg the game is.

 

[Cpt. Dallas]

So I've only just stumbled into the Mayor questline, and it's better than the Nomad one, or just the cop dudebro is better written than Panam. His dialogue and tone implies that he's always talking to the romanceable fem-V, so they obviously only wrote one track for him.

Spoiler

After putting on the BD headset in the Animals club, I was like, dude, back off. I like you and all but not in that way.

Of course women get canned hard-boiled cop muscled dood romance and men get the stronk mary sue. The CP sequel's one male romance option will be a trans, but will only tell you afterwards.

 

[Turjan]

Has anyone noticed Mr Blue Eyes appearing in main quests? He always appears always on the periphery, from balcony or a perch watching. You cannot attack him, V lowers their weapons when they aim at him, and when you scan him this is the result:

He's not only tied into main quests. Also, one ending gets you a bit closer.

 

[agris]

[...] e.g. materials science has been stagnant for decades, apparently [...]

So I know it’s fruitless to find a rando post on the internet and say “no, this is wrong” but here I must.

materials science and engineering has made enormous advances in the past 40 years (1980 and beyond), and is in no way shape or form stagnant. What on earth would lead you to believe such a thing?

 

[undecaf]

except VTMB, Arcanum and FNV weren't made by a thousand devs with an 8 years of dev cycle and a $300M budget.

They were also relatively good games inspite of their techical issues.

 

[res11]

So this is how it works? You make a game with fancy graphic 5 linear but well written quests then you fill the map with gigs ((clear the bandit camp style)) ship it with a crappy perk system and a loot system ala borderland and you have a damn fine game?...

Wow....low standardt much?

Should have had these high standards when Witcher 3 came out bucko

To be honest witcher 3 had way more outcome in side content than cyberpunk 2077. And that is the odd thing. Witcher had a predefined character however it was possible to do different choice with vast different outcomes as you progressed in the main story but also in the side quest. Cyberpunk is just linear and that's it. Choices there have no concequences at all the different endings minus one are dictated by the choice of 1 single dialogue. Side content is straight forward and linear. I know it sounds very odd to say however. Witcher 3 even being more an action game than a proper rpg had way more roleplay elements than cyberpunk 2077

Not sure what you're talking about.. side quests in cyberpunk are definitely less linear than in witcher 3. Also "way more roleplay elements" what? Which roleplay elements? There were none of that

 

[alyvain]

Has anyone noticed Mr Blue Eyes appearing in main quests? He always appears always on the periphery, from balcony or a perch watching. You cannot attack him, V lowers their weapons when they aim at him, and when you scan him this is the result:

you can get to him with double-jump, and then he disappears.

maybe that's a bug though

 

[DeepOcean]

So this is how it works? You make a game with fancy graphic 5 linear but well written quests then you fill the map with gigs ((clear the bandit camp style)) ship it with a crappy perk system and a loot system ala borderland and you have a damn fine game?...

Wow....low standardt much?

Yep, if this is a great game, any Ubisoft garbage is also a great game because there are very little differences between Cyberbug and a regular Ubisoft game. You have the outposts and the gigs that are just improved outposts with some primitive level design on it and most main missions are just follow the guy around and press F on things, typical AAA open world. Actually, Ubisoft games have police systems that work and an ai that knows how to drive. Also, the main quest of this game is short as fuck, I mean, CDPR claimed this game would be shorter than Witcher 3 but they never said how shorter it was, remove Skellige and the end game quest from Witcher 3 and this remains shorter than Velen and Novigrad.

Also, after the raid, the main quests are just a big setup for the final quest and nothing or relevant happens on them, you are just introduced to characters that will be relevant on the final quest, you meet them, say "Hi, nice to meet you." then to the final, linear, Act 3 you go. There is a whole act missing from this game and they rushed the main story as fuck, Adam Smasher doesnt go after you, Arasaka doesn't try to fuck you or you feel any pressure of any kind besides the retardred mcguffin "you gonna die" and the classic fake urgency. They just remain there waiting until Act 3.

There is "non linearity" in the main quest if you dont do any side quests, you wont have access to some endings but common... who will play a game with a main quest short as fuck as this is and not play the side quests?

 

[JustMyOnion]

The crafting and upgrading system specifically gave me flashbacks to one of the newer Assassin's Creed games, probably the greek one. At least Far Cry hasn't fallen into the loot spam hole (yet).

 

[DeepOcean]

The crafting and upgrading system specifically gave me flashbacks to one of the newer Assassin's Creed games, probably the greek one. At least Far Cry hasn't fallen into the loot spam hole (yet).

And on Ass Creed, if you pick a weapon, you can upgrade it fine, keeping it relevant until the end of the game while on Cyberbug, they really wish to fuck you and keep replacing weapons as some genius decided that you cant upgrade the weapon to your level straight, you need to upgrade each level until reaching yours and after each upgrade, the costs raise to eventually reach ludicrous levels even after speccing into crafting and it is way more expensive to upgrade a weapon than just replacing it, without the crafting discounts, it is even worse.