CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

[Yosharian]

Going from waterfall to agile is really the final nail. Don't expect anything of quality from here on out.

Waterfall to agile? You lost me

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Going from waterfall to agile is really the final nail. Don't expect anything of quality from here on out.

Waterfall to agile? You lost me

Management jargon.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Going from waterfall to agile is really the final nail. Don't expect anything of quality from here on out.

Waterfall to agile? You lost me

You can check the descriptions in wikipedia, but in short, waterfall means pre-planned features, budget and time, agile means planning on the fly, coding features and content as requirements are being defined, then adapting if necesseary and only roughly fixed end date for development. It's what they more often call "game as a service". You don't know in advance when support will end, how much content there will be, even where the story might go after the main campaign is over.

Personal opinion: serious software development (and a huge feature-rich RPG is very serious softwate) is not made in agile.

 

[Justicar]

You can check the descriptions in wikipedia, but in short, waterfall means pre-planned features, budget and time, agile means planning on the fly, coding features and content as requirements are being defined, then adapting if necesseary and only roughly fixed end date for development.

Personal opinion: serious software development (and a huge feature-rich RPG is very serious softwate) is not made in agile.

Isn't Rockstar gaymes using agile?

https://www.rockstargames.com/careers/openings/position/4194414003

QUALIFICATIONS

• Knowledge of agile project management techniques and best practices.

From what I read Rdr 2 was made exactly like that with shit changing all the time in development.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I am greatly simplifying the explanation and of course I can't peek into CDPR's planning process, more than what we can all see of its results.

 

[Yosharian]

Hmm I see.

 

[lukaszek]

agile is religion in poland

 

[AwesomeButton]

Of course, modern buzzwords often are. To what extent those practices are actually understood and actually followed is another matter. In most cases I've seen, managers tend to understand "agile" as "we don't need to be ready with exact requirements for the grunts to start coding -> we can show results sooner -> we have performed better as managers". You can see how this is headed for catastrophe as development process when misunderstood.

When the bill arrives, it turns out you need to spend that time you didn't spend in planning on doing refactoring and redesign.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'm not saying "waterfall is key to quality games" but this switch is just one aspect of many hints that CDPR is going to produce lower and lower quality RPGs.

 

[lukaszek]

or it could mean that following backslash they changed management, that brought their practices onboard?

 

[cvv]

Going from waterfall to agile is really the final nail. Don't expect anything of quality from here on out.

I thought it's a BS corpospeak. Do these things actually mean anything meaningful?

 

[Wunderbar]

I'm not a developer, so i looked up Agile on wikipedia, and holy shit. "Multiple self-organizing teams", "early delivery", "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools", "Responding to change over following a plan".

Lmao. CDPR are truly fucked.

 

[lukaszek]

hate aside agile works

 

[typical user]

So instead of fixing organizational problems which lead to disastrous launch of CP2077, they said "fuck it, le'ts call it Agile".

 

[cvv]

So instead of fixing organizational problems which lead to disastrous launch of CP2077, they said "fuck it, le'ts call it Agile".

That's literally them fixing the organizational problems which lead to the disastrous launch of CP2077 tho.

The switchup from a single centralized moloch to several decentralized dev groups seems p. fundamental.

 

[The Last Blackguard]

Agile is pretty common practice in tech companies. Doing something like this in what is essentially a crisis for your company is pretty odd.

Then again, maybe they're thinking that said crisis can't possibly get any worse at this point.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

can't possibly get any worse at this point

Someday I will meet someone who believed this and was not proven wrong.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Speaking about getting worse, considering what path CDPR has chosen, I hope you people do have a several terrabytes of free space on your hdd/ssd. Because it's absolutely possible for gog to change course and add mandatory drm. Gotta download games fast.

 

[Justicar]

Speaking about getting worse, considering what path CDPR has chosen, I hope you people do have a several terrabytes of free space on your hdd/ssd. Because it's absolutely possible for gog to change course and add mandatory drm. Gotta download games fast.

Negro I have all my beloved games from the past in the boxes sitting on the shelf dont need no gog magog.

 

[Andnjord]

Going from waterfall to agile is really the final nail. Don't expect anything of quality from here on out.

I thought it's a BS corpospeak. Do these things actually mean anything meaningful?

It does actually. While not a perfect analogy, it's a bit similar to the german Auftragstaktik (Agile) vs allied Central Planning (Waterfall). I'm not a developper either, so I don't know how it's applied to the tech world exactly, but it works well with smaller, multi-tasking teams that can easily identify and solve problems efficiently on their own, as opposed to the modern AAA projects that have hundred of code-monkeys split accross several different studios who work in their own bubble with little to no sight of the overarching vision.

Problem is that Agile tends to be seen as the fashionable option, so bad project managers try to ram it into projects regardless of its applicability.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Negro I have all my beloved games from the past in the boxes sitting on the shelf dont need no gog magog.

Why you think that every discussion is about you? I am talking about people who failed to preserve their physical copies (fire, flood or even years of continues usage can be merciless) or people with broken cd/dvd drives.

 

[Gargaune]

I already tried that when the game first came out and it wouldn't let me map any of the numpad keys I tried. How hard would it be to just give us an option to remap one of the keys you'll be using almost all the time...

Bind it to a thumb mouse button if you have one. You might wanna keep a backup of the original .xml, though, since I've had patches refuse to deploy because of the modified file and simply reverting contents didn't fix it, had to download the full setup again.

I don't even know what possessed them to think they were capable of making a GTA: Online ripoff in a monumentally more complex gaming environment

I don't know why they'd want to... Well, that's a lie, I do know why, I just think it's unfortunate.

I imagine it's also the kind of hubris that made them think they could just wing it and make an open-world immersive sim with a branching narrative - when bigger and more experienced publishers struggle to this day to make the open-world formula mesh with other gameplay elements in an engaging way, and this after 20 years of experimentation.

The thing is they could have. Not an actual immersive sim, the logistics of an open-world Deus Ex are a nightmare beyond current development processes, but they could've managed a well-written Fallout 4 with pertinent DX elements, the assets are there, but the core game design can't make use of them in a compelling manner. In chasing that GTA dragon, they gave us a Witcher 3 with poorer narrative design and gameplay pacing. And I love TW3, but Cyberpunk isn't really delivering on that game's strengths and the minor mechanical evolutions aren't enough to make up for those losses.

a narrative that has more in common with GTA than anything Cyberpunk specific or cyberpunk in general. Why even bother buying up the IP if you're not going to do anything interesting with it?

This one I don't agree with. I haven't finished the game, but I've seen a steady supply of writing coming back to cyberpunk motifs along the main quest and side ones like Delamain and Peralez, with the technological impact on society, humanity and personal identity being a constant presence. I think the writing's generally competent, it's the narrative design that falls short.

Also, it's quite telling that they learned very little from developing Witcher 3. Itemization and character progression in that game were two of the main points of complaint, as was the unpolished combat - and yet these are the same exact problems that crop up in Cyberpunk. So not only is the game a buggy, unfinished mess, but the very foundation it is built upon is flawed.

Other have mentioned it before, but if 2077 had been delivered without any of the glaring bugs and technical issues it would still have been a massive disappointment in all aspects - from worldbuilding, to writing, to interactivity and immersion. About the only thing anyone can objectively praise 2077 is the art direction, but games with good art direction aren't anything novel nowadays - even EA and Ubisoft routinely managed to get those right.

And the reason I'm so disappointed is the wasted potential. After TW3, CDPR was large, experienced developer, with virtually limitless material and publicity resources and a massive cost advantage over its Western competition. It was a generational opportunity to provide videogaming incline and they blew it because they didn't accurately assess the limitations and requirements of their Witcher 3 formula and ultimately designed Cyberpunk GTA with a few RPG trappings strapped on. The likes of journalists and Reddit keep whining about bugs and the lack of "activities", but CDPR could've shipped it with all its "free DLC" features and rock-solid software engineering, and it would still be an exceptionally pretty but ultimately mediocre videogame experience.

It's not bad, it's middling, and I doubt anyone else in the industry will get the same golden opportunity they had any time soon. Damn shame.

 

[Gargaune]

Then again, maybe they're thinking that said crisis can't possibly get any worse at this point.

Seeing as their latest patch is rumoured to dramatically reduce PC/RTX performance, they might wanna think again.

 

[Yosharian]

Then again, maybe they're thinking that said crisis can't possibly get any worse at this point.

Seeing as their latest patch is rumoured to dramatically reduce PC/RTX performance, they might wanna think again.

Wow really?

 

[Tacgnol]

Nothing wrong with agile methodologies if used correctly. At the end of the day, if your project management sucks it's gonna suck whatever method you use.