CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

[RobotSquirrel]

The stock will bounce back, as it did back when the game was originally delayed in the spring. Its sales are a more concrete indication of its success or failure, and 13+ million units, even on just the PC, is by no means a number that indicates a failed game.

The stock did not drop because the game was delayed in spring. That was a market crash.

Nah it will recover.

Any minute now.

Buy The Dip. They're looking ripe for a takeover.

 

[Bad Sector]

Feel free to hit up Sweeney on twitter about how he shouldn't develop UE6 for streaming,
Carmack about how RAGE looks bad for something made for PS360 (and how come missed some chance for revision because of some gamechanger Moonshot kool aid )
and while you're at it tell all zoomer kids to prepare and shell out for triple digit wattage hardware if they want 60 fps.
"Dis gon b gud."
Spectacularly you bought up expense of development vs. megatexture and ilk (scans).

Dude, honestly, learn to read, i never mentioned that RAGE looks bad (if anything i consider it one of the best looking games of its time) nor made any of the other claims you seem to think i did. I also never mentioned expense of development (in the discussion around UE5 in this thread at least) at all.

Hell, i don't even think baking light, etc, info into some generic geometry or texture format (like RAGE did) is a bad idea in general (if anything i was looking into that myself recently), what i wrote is that i doubt UE6 would go towards that direction because the entire industry seems to be going towards a different direction entirely.

 

[tritosine2k]

...

... .

"Learm to read" yeah right...

"But also, I think we can take a wider view of what games could be in the future," Sweeney adds. "Now we have this idea of installing a game, which means downloading every byte of the game from the Internet and putting it on your machine. You know, those boundaries can change over time. Perhaps only part of the game can actually be on your particular machine at any one time."

He points to the nascent rise of cloud gaming, where the idea is that the entire game lives in the server, thereby invalidating concerns about data size and footprint. "We're just going to have to watch the way the games evolve over time, and they may be more flexible in the future than they are now. Every previous console generation was limited by the expectation that some people don't have Internet, and have to be able to play the game off of a physical disc, right? If that expectation fades away, I think you have entirely new possibilities."

They were always moving for higher detail to please the close up detail crowd ( you know the one throwing fits bc. RAGE) . Keep being verbose and obscuring though.

 

[Bad Sector]

That Sweeney bit (which is from this article) is as unspecific as it could be but even that isn't about baking lighting to megatextures (or nanite vertices or whatever), it is about streaming data from a server for games that are too big to fit in a console's storage (i mention consoles because he was referring to console generations previously), something that is made more clear from a bit you didn't copy/paste:

Fortnite's mainstream success in spite of being entirely dependent on a decent Internet connection has only confirmed for Sweeney that this will be the future of video games. "I think that more and more games will go in that direction in the future, and that even games that we look at as singleplayer might in the future have so much content and variety that parts of the experience are streamed in dynamically in the background as you're playing, and you won't even notice."

(emphasis mine)

This has nothing to do with megatextures or even rendering and if anything they can already add it in UE5's new world partition system to download partition data per cell as you approach the cells form a distance. But this isn't anything revolutionary, in fact i wouldn't be surprised if some MMOs already did something like that for years now.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Yeah, CDPR should have just scanned the actual Night City instead of modelling it by hand. Would have saved them millions.

Couldn't they have built set models of Night City and scanned those?
Wouldn't it even be cheaper?

 

[Outlander]

I didn't feel like waiting till 2023 for the next expansion, so I figured I'd start a second playthrough and go through some of the side content slowly. Started as a Nomad, ran over the sheriff and the guards with my car. Even though I hadn't even met Jackie at this point, he randomly spawned in my car and began spraying the locals. For some reason, the guards didn't open fire and just walked around yelling as I crashed into them one by one. Thought I'd found a pretty cool exploit when I picked up the rare loot they dropped, only to realize I must be level 30 to use any of them.

So looks like I'm going to need some mods. Any must-have mods you've been using, Codex? Something to rebalance this glorious mess maybe?

But why the fuck are you wasting precious time with this broken, piece of shit game?

 

[Obsequious Approbation]

I didn't feel like waiting till 2023 for the next expansion, so I figured I'd start a second playthrough and go through some of the side content slowly. Started as a Nomad, ran over the sheriff and the guards with my car. Even though I hadn't even met Jackie at this point, he randomly spawned in my car and began spraying the locals. For some reason, the guards didn't open fire and just walked around yelling as I crashed into them one by one. Thought I'd found a pretty cool exploit when I picked up the rare loot they dropped, only to realize I must be level 30 to use any of them.

So looks like I'm going to need some mods. Any must-have mods you've been using, Codex? Something to rebalance this glorious mess maybe?

But why the fuck are you wasting precious time with this broken, piece of shit game?

I'm a sucker for the setting, the music, the aesthetics. I liked flying around in slow motion frying people's brains from afar. And I was hoping the updates had fixed the most glaring issues by now.

 

[tritosine2k]

That Sweeney bit (which is from this article) is as unspecific as it could be but even that isn't about baking lighting to megatextures (or nanite vertices or whatever), it is about streaming data from a server for games that are too big to fit in a console's storage (i mention consoles because he was referring to console generations previously), something that is made more clear from a bit you didn't copy/paste:

Fortnite's mainstream success in spite of being entirely dependent on a decent Internet connection has only confirmed for Sweeney that this will be the future of video games. "I think that more and more games will go in that direction in the future, and that even games that we look at as singleplayer might in the future have so much content and variety that parts of the experience are streamed in dynamically in the background as you're playing, and you won't even notice."

(emphasis mine)

This has nothing to do with megatextures or even rendering and if anything they can already add it in UE5's new world partition system to download partition data per cell as you approach the cells form a distance. But this isn't anything revolutionary, in fact i wouldn't be surprised if some MMOs already did something like that for years now.

Burden of proof is on you and let me guess you can't show mesmerizing realtime lighting stuff extending to hundreds of meters and kilometers without running into cascades and cutting off abruptly. And nvidia is cooking numbers.

Yeah, CDPR should have just scanned the actual Night City instead of modelling it by hand. Would have saved them millions.

Couldn't they have built set models of Night City and scanned those?
Wouldn't it even be cheaper?

Could be worth it, if they can store it reliably and it'd be perfectly converged for time of day and account for distance and occlusion better. But now it's a bigger deal to sell some realtime Moonshot kool-aid and you're supposed to believe how they can light up a city and such in realtime.

how about you fuck off with your authority power trip

 

[Obsequious Approbation]

I didn't feel like waiting till 2023 for the next expansion, so I figured I'd start a second playthrough and go through some of the side content slowly. Started as a Nomad, ran over the sheriff and the guards with my car. Even though I hadn't even met Jackie at this point, he randomly spawned in my car and began spraying the locals. For some reason, the guards didn't open fire and just walked around yelling as I crashed into them one by one. Thought I'd found a pretty cool exploit when I picked up the rare loot they dropped, only to realize I must be level 30 to use any of them.

Managed to reproduce it for posterity. Also, the driving mechanics have improved considerably as you can see.

 

[Kjaska]

looks fucking fun

 

[Gerrard]

The stock will bounce back, as it did back when the game was originally delayed in the spring. Its sales are a more concrete indication of its success or failure, and 13+ million units, even on just the PC, is by no means a number that indicates a failed game.

The stock did not drop because the game was delayed in spring. That was a market crash.

Nah it will recover.

Any minute now.

I'm still laughing at gamblers who bought CDPR stock days before CP2077 premiere.

I'm laughing at people who bought it at ~170 expecting that it will surely bounce back up when they release the Witcher 3 nextgen update.

 

[Bad Sector]

Couldn't they have built set models of Night City and scanned those?
Wouldn't it even be cheaper?

Unlikely for the whole city, AFAIK the best scanners available commercially (at least those you can actually buy) can give around 0.25mm of detail (some can scan in more detail but that is to reduce the noise in the output which is still limited at that resolution). Even if we assume that the largest buildings are at most 100 meter tall (the shortest height for something to be called a skyscraper according to Wikipedia) and a scale down 1:100 (i.e. one meter), that would only give you at most ~2.5cm in-game detail or around 38% of the detail you'd get in regular 256x256 textures as used in Quake 3. Also even that 0.25cm detail in reality would need to be sculpted somehow and mistakes simply are way more costly in physical form than in digital form where you can undo, etc.

3D scanning can be very useful for small objects and for capturing materials with better accuracy than what photographs can give you.

But it also isn't "for free" either, consider what the people working on Vanishing of Ethan Carter went through - and while some tools have improved, they haven't improved to the point where you can just scan and drop an item into an engine with minimal work.

Burden of proof is on you and let me guess you can't show mesmerizing realtime lighting stuff extending to hundreds of meters and kilometers without running into cascades and cutting off abruptly.

Burden of proof for what (and why it'd be on me?)? Also realtime lighting extending to kilometers is something that even classic deferred shading can do since world scale is irrelevant for it as it is all done in screen space.

 

[tritosine2k]

Couldn't they have built set models of Night City and scanned those?
Wouldn't it even be cheaper?

Burden of proof for what (and why it'd be on me?)? Also realtime lighting extending to kilometers is something that even classic deferred shading can do since world scale is irrelevant for it as it is all done in screen space.

all done in screen space

How many samples per pixel to match photogrammetry or texture space shading at >200meter? That just happens to be available on demand? And why would that ever work on consumer cards?

In other SAD news someone is still mad about not getting his GRAND car game (like this glamorous dynamic lighting stuff even allows that ) :

stay mad Gerrard

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I didn't feel like waiting till 2023 for the next expansion, so I figured I'd start a second playthrough and go through some of the side content slowly. Started as a Nomad, ran over the sheriff and the guards with my car. Even though I hadn't even met Jackie at this point, he randomly spawned in my car and began spraying the locals. For some reason, the guards didn't open fire and just walked around yelling as I crashed into them one by one. Thought I'd found a pretty cool exploit when I picked up the rare loot they dropped, only to realize I must be level 30 to use any of them.

Managed to reproduce it for posterity. Also, the driving mechanics have improved considerably as you can see.

Half a billion dollars spent for this.

 

[Bad Sector]

How many samples per pixel to match photogrammetry

Photogrammetry is irrelevant here, you are confusing two separate things. Photogrammetry is used to scan models, the models however can (and really most often are) be lit by the engine.

or texture space shading

Texture space shading is orthogonal to deferred shading. You can have one, the other or both.

at >200meter?

Distance is irrelevant as deferred shading computations are done in screen space so as long as you have the correct values in the g-buffer you can perform shading on them.

That just happens to be available on demand?

Why on demand?

And why would that ever work on consumer cards?

What wouldn't? That stuff is already available and working on consumer cards.

 

[tritosine2k]

How many samples per pixel to match photogrammetry

What wouldn't? That stuff is already available and working on consumer cards.

Why is this a feature if it "works" ? Neither photogrammetry shimmers and megatexture+streaming enables photogrammetry for example of a complete racetrack.


serbian guy made this in 5 day on bicycle with ghetto go-pro setup.

 

[MichaelB]

Managed to reproduce it for posterity. Also, the driving mechanics have improved considerably as you can see.

kino

 

[Bad Sector]

Why is this a feature if it "works" ? Neither photogrammetry shimmers and megatexture+streaming enables photogrammetry for example of a complete racetrack.

Dude, you are jumping from point to point without making any sort of coherent connections between them and then add in unrelated stuff. Stop for a moment and read the entire discussion from the moment i replied (and to what i replied) up to this point and try to realize that you are writing makes little sense.

serbian guy made this in 5 day on bicycle with ghetto go-pro setup.

Sure, but this doesn't have much to do with anything discussed so far except perhaps something that is in your head that you haven't bothered to put it in clear and coherent writing.

My entire point with these replies was that i think it is very unlikely for UE6 specifically to go towards network streaming baked virtual geometry since pretty much everything in the industry nowadays goes more and more towards realtime processing, from the developers' own goals (working in realtime is faster even when making the game) to the hardware itself (HW accelerated raytracing, etc) to pretty much all the research focus around games (see all the presentations in GDC, etc being increasingly about realtime approaches). Yes, you can do it and yes it is technically possible to scan 3D scenes, precalculate volumes/points/voxels/whatever with lighting and stream data that requires very little processing power GPU-wise, this is nothing new, people did it even back in the 90s - it is how the qsplat algorithm for streaming and rendering point clouds was invented - but my point wasn't if it was technically feasible, it was about what i think UE6 would do in the future based not only on UE's but also the entire industry trajectory so far.

 

[tritosine2k]

entire industry trajectory so far.

https://twitter.com/UnrealEngine/status/1521485488024166407

they put this out today, it's full of remote and streaming references

https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/03/intel_siru_innovations/?td=keepreading-btm

Intel acquires graphics tech biz founded by ex-AMD, Qualcomm engineers

The Twitter account for Intel's graphics team had a slightly less buzzword-filled description of the areas it expects help from Siru: mobility-as-a-Service, advanced driver assistance systems, gaming, and hyperscale datacenters, which are run by large companies like Meta and Amazon.

doesn't seem like they are hell bent on supplying you with the discrete graphics "fix". And that's no use anyway for the average consumer because this "temporal reconstruction" stuff was hardly ever a solution.

 

[Kjaska]

at this point I rate the probability that tritosine is a chat-bot made by Carmack at above 40%

 

[Bad Sector]

they put this out today, it's full of remote and streaming references

There is no "remote" reference anywhere in the tweet or the linked page and the only reference to streaming is in a linked PDF about Google Stadia-like streaming and the existing (for UE4 even) plugin to stream data assets - from what i can tell - based on world position. Network streaming of data assets is old news for UE games.

doesn't seem like they are hell bent on supplying you with the discrete graphics "fix". And that's no use anyway for the average consumer because this "temporal reconstruction" stuff was hardly ever a solution.

What does that have to do with anything? What the hell does even "temporal reconstruction" has to do with anything in the discussion?

Dude, i give up, it is technically impossible to communicate with you.

 

[Bad Sector]

at this point I rate the probability that tritosine is a chat-bot made by Carmack at above 40%

I think AI-generated text makes more sense, e.g. this is from here (bold text is a bit of text tritosine2k wrote):

RTX doesn't hit any sensible framerate at sensible resolution in unreal5 "thanks to" dynamic lighting and that's with cascaded shadows stuff so it's already sub-optimal even below 48 fps and not as smooth distance gradiation as RAGE. Not to mention temporal "reconstruction" .

I'd love to be proven wrong but there are games using AA (f.i. in Skyrim the sky appears to be rendered in AA even though no AA is applied)

So I agree but I'm saying that I doubt the game developers are trying to emulate that for a reason because it looks like shit. I can't tell if the shadow distance is caused by some strange lighting mode but I can assure you it's not what game developers are trying to do.

But I agree it looks shit. Because it's not what game developers are trying to do. Games are trying to render all the details, which results in a different lighting mode that looks like crap if you render all the details at a higher resolution.

So the next step is to try and emulate more details with different lighting modes. It's just a problem that most game developers are not able to come up with a more "advanced" lighting model that looks even better at lower resolutions.

or

How many samples per pixel to match photogrammetry or texture space shading at >200meter? That just happens to be available on demand? And why would that ever work on consumer cards? Why not just take them as is, given that the average consumer probably won't bother to change the brightness and contrast?

If you're asking about the textures on the objects themselves, then if you want a "perfect" texture, you are going to have to use the photogrammetry, because texture space is just a single representation, while the photogrammetry model represents it as a collection of separate samples. This can sometimes lead to slight variations that are not noticeable. For example, a texture pattern that repeats itself over all of the surfaces of a model, may end up appearing more blurry at some places than others. (this actually makes more sense than anything written so far by tritosine)

I don't think the average consumer has the skills or the tools required to do this. Many of us don't have time to even go through those extra steps, but if you want to do it correctly, you have to.

I can think of 3 levels of details:

1. No details (like the default in some games

(yes it stops at 1 :-P though i think that is a character limit from the site)

 

[tritosine2k]

What does that have to do with anything? What the hell does even "temporal reconstruction" has to do with anything in the discussion?

Apparently to you neither shimmering or temporal smear is a problem and if that's so I'm not quite sure what you have to do with the discussion either.

 

[GhostCow]

Infinitron I think we need a thread split please

 

[lukaszek]

to whoever it might interest tested monowire against tech weapon feats and couldnt see much difference.
However, there is this cyberware that heals you when you hit enemy with fully charged tech weapon. That one works with monowire even when its not 100%. Paired with wire being aoe weapon it can heal you nicely.
Get poison feats, poison wire mod and you will be doing quite nicely. Bleeding feats could come into play against bosses i guess... not tested.