CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

[Rean]

A game so good and successful the thread would rather talk about shitty Japanese pornographic cartoons.

How much does it upset your seething e-persona that an an1me (which you've watched too) is literally able to change reality?
We could make an action show out of your sitting in front of your desk with your dog 24/7 and give you hope, too.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Well, having a surge in popularity isn’t going to save it from sucking pretty hard.

The game is fine

Not really. There’s so much of it that remains terrible regardless of the “fixes” applied so far.

Driving sucks, combat is terrible, controls in general have a terrible feedback, balance is something that wasn’t even attempted, the “role play” is utterly shallow with every important segment of the narrative being heavily railroaded, AI and NPC behavior remain abysmal even compared to decade-old titles, the progression system is bad (and ironically enough for a “videogame adaptation” in plenty of ways where the original ruleset wasn’t), the “levels” feel like an arbitrary immersion-breaker that Cyberpunk didn’t really need and last but not least the “looter shooter”-type itemization remains quite possibly among the worst I’ve experienced in the genre.

 

[Gradenmayer]

Really interesting interview about creation of edgerunners. It took them around 6 years total. Actual production around 3-4 years. Writting was mainly done by Creative director of Cyberpunk2077 and narrative lead which both left CDPR for blizzard in 2018 and now are both creative director and narrative lead for Diablo IV. Script was written by Trigger. They spend shitload of time to get theme right.

Its about everything from shopping ideas in japan to studios without any knowledge on how to make anyme etc.

Oof, I'd expect way more from 6 years of development. At least in writing department.

First episodes were Strong, but it devolves into generic Trigger story, where everything becomes watered down Gurren Laggan.

 

[Pink Eye]

We could make an action show out of your sitting in front of your desk with your dog 24/7 and give you hope, too.

Hmm. This sounds like Welcome to the NHK... Except main character didn't have cute dog, he had talking furniture instead.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Oof, I'd expect way more from 6 years of development. At least in writing department.

First episodes were Strong, but it devolves into generic Trigger story, where everything becomes watered down Gurren Laggan.

?

It goes pretty much in the OPPOSITE direction of the typical unabashed optimism that defines most of TRIGGER's works in the past.
To the point it becomes pretty damn obvious there's a different writer at work here (which is blessing, incidentally, since they have more misses than hits on their record at this point).

 

[Gradenmayer]

Oof, I'd expect way more from 6 years of development. At least in writing department.

First episodes were Strong, but it devolves into generic Trigger story, where everything becomes watered down Gurren Laggan.

?

It goes pretty much in the OPPOSITE direction of the typical unabashed optimism that defines most of TRIGGER's works in the past.
To the point it becomes pretty damn obvious there's a different writer at work here (which is blessing, incidentally, since they have more misses than hits on their record at this point).

I disagree, yeah mood is darker, but It still was a typical Trigger story,

Spoiler

where Smasher stops the space alien chapter from happening

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, the final episode felt really "Trigger" to me and kind of weak.
Sure it's more bitter sweet and has some dramatic moments (but nowhere near the level of Episode 6), but that whole cyberskeleton thing really jumped the shark and really no different from their over the top giant robot ending.
I dunno, the show felt weaker after the time skip. How they covered David falling to cyberpsychosis was neat though.

 

[ADL]

All that time and effort and that's the story they ended up with? I enjoyed the show for what it was but they should have kept that '6 years of development' bit a secret. I was thinking it was solid for a 1-2 year project. 6 years makes you think "that's it?"

 

[Pink Eye]

Wait. 6 years?! They could have made more episodes... That could have been at least two seasons right there. Your average anime production gets way less than 6 years.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

"6 years of development" is obviously hyperbolic retelling of what actually happened.
Even if the timespan itself was not inflated (which I doubt, anyway) it was most likely something like "4 years of getting a draft and looking around for options, Two years of planning and production".

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

"6 years of development" is obviously hyperbolic retelling of what actually happened.
Even if the timespan itself was not inflated (which I doubt, anyway) it was most likely something like "4 years of getting a draft and looking around for options, Two years of planning and production".

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of it was planning and writing a draft, trying to work out how to use the music from the game, etc.
How much of it is hand-drawn? because that would take up time too.

Does anyone know how long it took to make Kill-La-Kill as reference?

 

[lukaszek]

im not getting this '6 years to get it right' story, when most scenes are basically copy pasted from game

 

[Perkel]

"6 years of development" is obviously hyperbolic retelling of what actually happened.
Even if the timespan itself was not inflated (which I doubt, anyway) it was most likely something like "4 years of getting a draft and looking around for options, Two years of planning and production".

2 years of drafting inhouse/choosing studio, getting budget and greenlighting project - CDPR side
2.5 years of preproduction - CDPR and TRIGGER
1 year of production - TRIGGER
7 months of post production - CDPR
4 months of waiting for good tv series slot in year - CDPR and NETFLIX

So yeah 6 years.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

im not getting this '6 years to get it right' story, when most scenes are basically copy pasted from game

*Copy pasted into another medium
They still have to draw it. Which means they have to copy it exactly.

 

[Grunker]

So after having done a lot of "gigs" despite my better judgment (quests are broken down into main, side, gig, with gig being very small/copypasta a la question marks in TW3), I think I'm seeing at least one crucial development resource issue that could play a part in why one the main reasons TW3 succeeded - the fantastic side content - is way less impressive in Cyberpunk.

Basically, despite what I said ealier, gigs are vastly better Witcher question mark content (which doesn't say much since Witcher question marks is about the worst RPG content ever made). Despite being similar in gameplay gigs have voiced, unique dialogue and surprisingly often have story beats that stretch them out into "mini side quests." You'll even find the odd bit of reactivity or callbacks to prior discoveries in earlier gigs. It must have taken a pretty significant development effort to make so many all with unique content (there are almost a hundred of these and all of them have *at least* a bit of unique dialogue).

And it's a COMPLETE waste of effort. There's almost nothing gained here compared to Witcher questionmark hell. They're still boring, copypastaed missions that I ended up stealthing through most of the time, not because I'm a stealth character, but because it was just faster. Doing them ended up being a curiosity project - I definetely wouldn't recommend anyone else do it.

I might be totally wrong a producing these were little effort compared to question marks, and if that's so, well good on them I guess. But if this ultimately non-impactful improvement in any way took resources from actual side quests, it was a horrific move in my opinion.

 

[lukaszek]

im not getting this '6 years to get it right' story, when most scenes are basically copy pasted from game

*Copy pasted into another medium
They still have to draw it. Which means they have to copy it exactly.

havent seen the jurno vid so im relying on quotes posted in here. Im not negating pasting to another medium. Honestly I dig the new visuals.

My assumption/understanding was that they spend a lot of time trying to get atmosphere/feel of cyberpunk right. This is the part that raises my eyebrow and where copy\paste comment comes from. One thing would be throwing just a few scenes as a nod towards gaymers, but amount of locations straight from game is high.

 

[Gargaune]

So after having done a lot of "gigs" despite my better judgment (quests are broken down into main, side, gig, with gig being very small/copypasta a la question marks in TW3), I think I'm seeing at least one crucial development resource issue that could play a part in why one the main reasons TW3 succeeded - the fantastic side content - is way less impressive in Cyberpunk.

Basically, despite what I said ealier, gigs are vastly better Witcher question mark content (which doesn't say much since Witcher question marks is about the worst RPG content ever made). Despite being similar in gameplay gigs have voiced, unique dialogue and surprisingly often have story beats that stretch them out into "mini side quests." You'll even find the odd bit of reactivity or callbacks to prior discoveries in earlier gigs. It must have taken a pretty significant development effort to make so many all with unique content (there are almost a hundred of these and all of them have *at least* a bit of unique dialogue).

And it's a COMPLETE waste of effort. There's almost nothing gained here compared to Witcher questionmark hell. They're still boring, copypastaed missions that I ended up stealthing through most of the time, not because I'm a stealth character, but because it was just faster. Doing them ended up being a curiosity project - I definetely wouldn't recommend anyone else do it.

I might be totally wrong a producing these were little effort compared to question marks, and if that's so, well good on them I guess. But if this ultimately non-impactful improvement in any way took resources from actual side quests, it was a horrific move in my opinion.

Gigs were how CDPR attempted to improve on the concept of Radiant Quests/Activities and the idea's simple - make them static setpieces instead of systemically generated, thus allowing for more bespoke writing and design, and leverage that horde of employees to make boatloads of them and compensate for the non-recurring implementation. It's also why they didn't string them along in factional quest chains, because they were meant to fill that "free entry" Activity category between Side Quests and Random Encounters (Scanner Hustles) that you could just pick up roaming around the open world.

But while it all sounds good on paper, it backfired in practice. Because, firstly, Gigs have just enough narrative framing to make them look like Side Quests but they're not long enough to play like them, and secondly, they're as accessible as Activities but they're not dynamic enough to scratch that itch. So the player perceives them as low-effort, knockoff Side Quests rather than a better class of Activities, of which they don't see any. Factor in that actual Side Quests aren't as plentiful or extensive as they were in TW3, and frustration sets in.

There is one nice thing about Gigs, though, and that's that unlike main and side quests, they're gameplay-focused - you can go in and actually play a little Cyberpunk 2077 instead of watching Panam talk about it.

 

[tritosine2k]

So after having done a lot of "gigs" despite my better judgment (quests are broken down into main, side, gig, with gig being very small/copypasta a la question marks in TW3), I think I'm seeing at least one crucial development resource issue that could play a part in why one the main reasons TW3 succeeded - the fantastic side content - is way less impressive in Cyberpunk.

Basically, despite what I said ealier, gigs are vastly better Witcher question mark content (which doesn't say much since Witcher question marks is about the worst RPG content ever made). Despite being similar in gameplay gigs have voiced, unique dialogue and surprisingly often have story beats that stretch them out into "mini side quests." You'll even find the odd bit of reactivity or callbacks to prior discoveries in earlier gigs. It must have taken a pretty significant development effort to make so many all with unique content (there are almost a hundred of these and all of them have *at least* a bit of unique dialogue).

And it's a COMPLETE waste of effort. There's almost nothing gained here compared to Witcher questionmark hell. They're still boring, copypastaed missions that I ended up stealthing through most of the time, not because I'm a stealth character, but because it was just faster. Doing them ended up being a curiosity project - I definetely wouldn't recommend anyone else do it.

I might be totally wrong a producing these were little effort compared to question marks, and if that's so, well good on them I guess. But if this ultimately non-impactful improvement in any way took resources from actual side quests, it was a horrific move in my opinion.

It's disjointed on purpose. It was partially done by outside studio that's making their own game now.

And it's a COMPLETE waste of effort.

See above it's not just theirs.

 

[Grunker]

One thing that I don't really understand is all the criticism about background not being present enough. Yeah you're not playing three different games and there's not that much reactivity, but compared to most RPGs where your background is just three dialogues of someone saying something racist 'cause you're an elf or whatever, I've been able to talk Corpo shop in like 70% of the conversations (with a dabbling of easier skill checks, higher payouts or whatever). There's almost so much there it directs your convos a bit too much.

It's not mindblowing or anything, just seems like a weird thing to fixate on when there's so much else in the game more worthwhile critiquing.

 

[KVVRR]

It took 6 years to make peak mediocrity? The shitty Japanese pornographic cartoons industry is fucked.

That makes it even worse, because they most likely were willing to throw more money at it than Netflix does at their shows.

Throwing more money at 2D animation won't make the product inherently better, you need people that know what they're doing and more importantly, time for them to actually work. Arcane, while being 3D, took millions to make but what allowed the team to make it as visually great as they did was that Riot gave them as much time as they needed to polish it up, which meant that they could actually use a bunch of 2D techniques on it to make it look even better.

 

[bobocrunch]

So after having done a lot of "gigs" despite my better judgment (quests are broken down into main, side, gig, with gig being very small/copypasta a la question marks in TW3), I think I'm seeing at least one crucial development resource issue that could play a part in why one the main reasons TW3 succeeded - the fantastic side content - is way less impressive in Cyberpunk.

Basically, despite what I said ealier, gigs are vastly better Witcher question mark content (which doesn't say much since Witcher question marks is about the worst RPG content ever made). Despite being similar in gameplay gigs have voiced, unique dialogue and surprisingly often have story beats that stretch them out into "mini side quests." You'll even find the odd bit of reactivity or callbacks to prior discoveries in earlier gigs. It must have taken a pretty significant development effort to make so many all with unique content (there are almost a hundred of these and all of them have *at least* a bit of unique dialogue).

And it's a COMPLETE waste of effort. There's almost nothing gained here compared to Witcher questionmark hell. They're still boring, copypastaed missions that I ended up stealthing through most of the time, not because I'm a stealth character, but because it was just faster. Doing them ended up being a curiosity project - I definetely wouldn't recommend anyone else do it.

I might be totally wrong a producing these were little effort compared to question marks, and if that's so, well good on them I guess. But if this ultimately non-impactful improvement in any way took resources from actual side quests, it was a horrific move in my opinion.

I'm honestly glad gigs are there and they're one of my favorite parts of the game. Them being over quick makes the short stories not drag too long or just be small 'damn...crazy...' things with varied and interesting setpieces. Their integration into the game world is surprisingly well done like you said with some callbacks, like a random vendor NPC having 2 new options of dialogue regarding a gig in the area. Just hard to beat the Cyberpunk Immersion of taking a call in the rain outside the neon gleam of a pachinko parlor, casing the area and getting in and out. It's funny that you said you stealth because it's quicker, as I often as a stealth dude just walk in with a pistol because it's quick and a different change of pace, and sometimes fits the gig's vibe.

Maybe if they cut down on the NCPD scanners around every corner wasting side quest ideas they could've fleshed out the gigs more, converting them into actual side quests or expanding the ones that are there. But as an open world Dredd simulator, I'm super happy with Cyberpunk and never got the hate.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

you know what my favorite thing to do is when my brain is melting down and I'm hours away from having my body taken by me from some cyber ghost?
random gigs

 

[Heroic Liberator]

One thing that I don't really understand is all the criticism about background not being present enough. Yeah you're not playing three different games and there's not that much reactivity, but compared to most RPGs where your background is just three dialogues of someone saying something racist 'cause you're an elf or whatever, I've been able to talk Corpo shop in like 70% of the conversations (with a dabbling of easier skill checks, higher payouts or whatever). There's almost so much there it directs your convos a bit too much.

It's not mindblowing or anything, just seems like a weird thing to fixate on when there's so much else in the game more worthwhile critiquing.

That's not the main issue that people have with lifepaths (although the fact that the dialogue is just fluff and doesn't offer any real C&C makes them quite meh, most you get from lifepaths being a token lifepath-based quest), but the fact that the main story is tailored for a street kid V. And the lifepath intros don't really portray V's adjustment to the merc life (which is particularly egregious if he had started as a corpo). I think that it would have been much better if that cutscene you get with Jackie and V starting their journey up the merc ladder had been actually expanded into a proper post-lifepath intro prologue and given enough lifepath-based reactivity as to showcase V's settling into his new life (and it would've been great to get more interactions with Jackie, naturally).

 

[bobocrunch]

you know what my favorite thing to do is when my brain is melting down and I'm hours away from having my body taken by me from some cyber ghost?
random gigs

they couldve added arbitrary money requirements for main quests so you have a reason to like all the Classics but then you'd bitch about that

 

[Grunker]

I'm not saying it's amazing, I'm just saying most RPGs - even good ones - don't do that stuff much better. And I recall it being a main point of criticism here. when there is so much other stuff that works way more poorly