People News Chris Avellone gives his blessing to inXile's Torment successor, probably won't join

[Alex]

No. I'm arguing that it doesn't have to be as interactive as MCA seems to be indicating. I definitely felt that the PS:T story was interactive enough. Yes, I know that PS:T has taken some flack here in the past for being half adventure game--some kind of cRPG-Adventure hybrid or just an interactive story. Some have gone so far as saying that it isn't a real RPG. I don't really have an argument with any of that. All I want to do is point to whatever PS:T was and say, "That is what I want to see again."

Colin seems to have the right idea in focusing on philosophy and central riddles. MCA's comments make me nervous. If he can't be relied on to sell the idea of novel-rpgs then who can? Having said that I don't want to see the opposite extreme with jrpgs and non-interactive cut scenes dominating the narrative or god forbid EAware's idea of RPG-as-movie. Or some hybrid half assed film meets Harlequin romance novel. There's always a balance between interactivity, choice, non-linearity and story and it's a delicate one.

I usually am the first to criticize Mr. Avellone. He frequently disavows a lot of the things I loved about PS:T in interviews, and his infatuation with "cinematics" gave use Alpha Protocol, a game whose the only good point it has going with me is that I didn't waste my money on it. Still, the text you quoted seemed perfectly fine with me. I think one of the biggest problems with the original Torment was that it was too static, too written in stone for what it was trying to do. Having the game react more to what you do could make it that much better, I think, and adding more dynamic systems seem like a very good way to do that.

 

[ghostdog]

So, without the Planescape setting and lore, without MCA and with the story of the original game getting a definite end --exactly how it should end-- I really don't see the reason for a Torment sequel.

I'm sure Colin MC Comb is a great writer, but the game doesn't have to be titled Torment 2. Actually it shouldn't be titled Torment 2, or in any way be advertised as a sequel to Torment.

Frankly, the only reason for using the Torment IP, that I can see right now, is to create hype... And I don't like that.

 

[darkling]

It's all good. I haven't read Oathbreaker yet but I've recently re-read pretty much the entire PS campaign setting and Beyond Countless Doorways and well, we're good for the setting. That said, I imagine everyone involved is paying a bit of attention to these early reactions and are taking notes. After this flurry of hyperbole, they'll find a way to wedge MCA in.

edit: Of course it's for hype. These projects need real hype to meet their goals. KS isn't magic, great things fail at getting funding all the time because they lack the required 'hype' that brings in the nerds with the cash. And really, why could it not be a successor? One of the original designers is right here, in the project. And it's conceptually similar. This is all a project needs.

If you really fear the lack of Planescape, check out BCD or the more recent Dark Roads & Golden Hells from Open Design. DR&GH wasn't written by McComb, but his quote is being used to sell it and it's certainly great. Planar-styled settings/stories don't need the PS logo on them just to be interesting. They just take quality writers.

 

[Roguey]

I usually am the first to criticize Mr. Avellone. He frequently disavows a lot of the things I loved about PS:T in interviews, and his infatuation with "cinematics" gave use Alpha Protocol, a game whose the only good point it has going with me is that I didn't waste my money on it.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/98564-chris-avellone.html

Chris: If I could go back and start on the project from the outset? Sure, absolutely - and don't take anything I say as this would somehow magically be a better game, it would just be different, and most likely have other things people hated about it. Anyway, I'd make a spy version of Kill Bill (if it had to be a spy game at all and not just a real world RPG title, which would be great), change the main character to not be a set character, screw the realism and focus on the fantastic, add more mission reactivity between missions and between cities, change the mission structure to the honeycomb mission structure our Systems Designer proposed 2 years in (and what our Exec Producer originally wanted), remove cinematic conversations, screw trying to compete with other stealth or shooter games that have already mastered those areas and look for ways to make the player feel like spies in other ways - again, assuming a spy game is what you'd want to do with a real-world RPG at all.

Wasn't his call.

 

[Jaesun]

So just to clarify (we have too many fucking threads on this) this will be a "spiritual successor" NOT a sequel to Planescape:Torment correct?

As in here is a new world, and story that is using a setting similar to the Planescape like setting, but will NOT involve TNO or his companions or his story (because that story was and has already been told).

I am OK with this (if this is the case). I still need more info though.

 

[Murk]

PS: seriously tho the dude does have way too much on his plate. I often wonder how he juggles it all.

Why, with those big strong manly arms of his, of course /ho ho hooo.

I uh... I never did get the MCA obsession here.

Oathbreaker looks interesting -- I'll probably pick it up and see what it's like in the coming week.

 

[agentorange]

PS: seriously tho the dude does have way too much on his plate. I often wonder how he juggles it all.

Why, with those big strong manly arms of his, of course /ho ho hooo.

I uh... I never did get the MCA obsession here.

Oathbreaker looks interesting -- I'll probably pick it up and see what it's like in the coming week.

A handsome, muscular man with a dark and lonely soul, who cries out through his writings in the video games. Some Codexers want to be him, some Codexers just want him.

Have they said anything concrete about whether they plan to continue the Nameless One's story? They better not do that, it's over and done. Considering the Planescape setting, and how many possibilities it offers, it would be horrifyingly retarded to try and retread that same ground.

 

[Alex_Steel]

This somewhat lowers my enthusiasm. Anyway, I will ignore the whole idea until I see Wasteland 2. If inXile proves they can make a good RPG, I will then start cautiously.

 

[Oesophagus]

If inXile proves they can make a good RPG, I will then start furiously.

fixed

But yeah, I'm still to play a kickstarted game, so I reserve judgement for now

 

[treave]

For those of you concerned about my writing ability, I'll point out that you can read the first book of Oathbreaker for free via Amazon or iTunes. I don't mean this to be a commercial, I should add (buy the second book) - I'd like you to see that I can actually deliver a story. If you download the first one, I don't get any money, and I don't receive any particular benefit except for the possibility that you like the story and want to continue reading the series. If you think it sucks, then you've got a fair basis for wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of clothes.

That is to say: You've got a right to be skeptical. I would be too.

Sounds like it needs to be read concurrently with Dragon Age: The Stolen Throne. Will do.

 

[alkeides]

MCA's involvement in MotB was limited to mostly writing Gann-of-Dreams and Kaelyn IIRC, and the story was pretty great not to mention the release being the most stable in Obsidian's history.

 

[tuluse]

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/98564-chris-avellone.html
Wasn't his call.

Co-owner of the company, had design input on the game.

I think it's fair to assign some of the blame to him.

 

[Irxy]

I personally can't imagine a PS:T successor in a different setting. A dialog heavy fantasy rpg with some metaphysical context?.. Planescape is about half of the magics the game has.
Its not some generic fantasy like Forgotten Realms.

 

[LeStryfe79]

This is gonna need one hell of a kickstarter campaign.

 

[Brother None]

Have they said anything concrete about whether they plan to continue the Nameless One's story? They better not do that, it's over and done. Considering the Planescape setting, and how many possibilities it offers, it would be horrifyingly retarded to try and retread that same ground.

Not doing TNO. Colin would never do that without MCA. As he said, if MCA wants to do a sequel to TNO or the companion stories, he has that right, but no one else does, and as far as both of them are concerned, right now, that story is closed.

So just to clarify (we have too many fucking threads on this) this will be a "spiritual successor" NOT a sequel to Planescape:Torment correct?

As in here is a new world, and story that is using a setting similar to the Planescape like setting, but will NOT involve TNO or his companions or his story (because that story was and has already been told).

That's pretty much it. Not saying much yet on how similar the world is to Planescape but it will definitely not be any kind of standard fantasy setting. Then tell a similar type of story, philosophical and personal, subvert RPG tropes, and you got yourself a successor. I think they'll be pretty damn explicit about it not being any kind of direct sequel.

 

[ghostdog]

Not doing TNO. Colin would never do that without MCA. As he said, if MCA wants to do a sequel to TNO or the companion stories, he has that right, but no one else does, and as far as both of them are concerned, right now, that story is closed.



That's pretty much it. Not saying much yet on how similar the world is to Planescape but it will definitely not be any kind of standard fantasy setting. Then tell a similar type of story, philosophical and personal, subvert RPG tropes, and you got yourself a successor. I think they'll be pretty damn explicit about it not being any kind of direct sequel.

So what does PST has do do with all this ? This is like if Obsidian bought the IP of Baldur's Gate without the Forgotten Realms License, unable to use even the city of baldur's gate, and then they named Project Eternity : Baldur's Gate 3.

 

[Brother None]

So what does PST has do do with all this ? This is like if Obsidian bought the IP of Baldur's Gate without the Forgotten Realms License, unable to use even the city of baldur's gate, and then they named Project Eternity : Baldur's Gate 3.

Sure. Only Baldur's Gate didn't really offer the opportunity to be a thematic franchise like Torment does. And your comparison doesn't fully work, because they're not using the name Planescape while unable to use the location Planescape, as with your Baldur's Gate comparison. Torment isn't a place or a setting. Planescape is. I get your viewpoint though, I don't disagree with it. Why us the name Torment when the relation is tangential?
(Dark Alliance is separate from Baldur's Gate. Interplay might still do a Dark Alliance action-RPG)

IPs are tricky things in this sense. What inXile wants to do here is pretty novel, from an IP standpoint. Colin will talk about it more later, explain what they're doing and why, how a Planescape game isn't going to happen anyway but that offers the opportunity to take Torment's themes and approach into a new setting. And if most people still feel this way, still don't like the idea, then one can reconsider. We'll see how it goes.

 

[DwarvenFood]

So just to clarify (we have too many fucking threads on this) this will be a "spiritual successor" NOT a sequel to Planescape:Torment correct?

As in here is a new world, and story that is using a setting similar to the Planescape like setting, but will NOT involve TNO or his companions or his story (because that story was and has already been told).

I am OK with this (if this is the case). I still need more info though.

I think the proper way to see this, is like Kieślowski's Trois couleurs trilogy. Same main theme, but different characters (and in this case, different setting). Beyond Countless Doorways sounds quite interesting, there is more besidec Planescape. And I'm sure for the planned game McComb can come up with something real good story-wise. It will probably take quite a while before we get to know any details, technically we don't even know the genre it will be in.

 

[ghostdog]

Sure. Only Baldur's Gate didn't really offer the opportunity to be a thematic franchise like Torment does. And your comparison doesn't fully work, because they're not using the name Planescape while unable to use the location Planescape, as with your Baldur's Gate comparison. Torment isn't a place or a setting. Planescape is. I get your viewpoint though, I don't disagree with it. Why us the name Torment when the relation is tangential?
(Dark Alliance is separate from Baldur's Gate. Interplay might still do a Dark Alliance action-RPG)

IPs are tricky things in this sense. What inXile wants to do here is pretty novel, from an IP standpoint. Colin will talk about it more later, explain what they're doing and why, how a Planescape game isn't going to happen anyway but that offers the opportunity to take Torment's themes and approach into a new setting. And if most people still feel this way, still don't like the idea, then one can reconsider. We'll see how it goes.

Yeah, I don't know, maybe they have some great ideas and actually manage to make something unique, and Colin McComb must be a very good writer and world designer, but right now I just don't see what the Torment IP can give them, except for the name. Exploring the themes of Torment can be easily done in a completely new game.

Maybe by using the torment IP they can actually get away with creating a setting very similar to Planescape ?

 

[skuphundaku]

Yeah, I don't know, maybe they have some great ideas and actually manage to make something unique, and Colin McComb must be a very good writer and world designer, but right now I just don't see what the Torment IP can give them, except for the name. Exploring the themes of Torment can be easily done in a completely new game.

Maybe by using the torment IP they can actually get away with creating a setting very similar to Planescape ?

The Torment IP that inXile got is just the name "Torment". What they've got is the "Torment" trademark, nothing more, nothing less. What I understand from what Colin and Brother None are saying is that the idea is to use the "Torment" brand in order to define the thematic of a series of games (some of them unrelated to each other in any way except the thematic and the brand name). You seem to be hung up on the Planescape setting and that's what's tripping you up. Forget about it. It's going to be a completely new game (or so I understand).

 

[Brother None]

I think he gets that, he's just asking "so why use the Torment name at all?" Which is a valid question, and inXile knows it's a valid question. It does help to get the project noticed, that's one thing, no point in denying that, but I also think Colin has a pretty solid creative idea on - as you say - using it define the theme of a series. That's also a unique idea though, so it's not like you can just say that and then expect people to accept it. It's been done in novels and movies, things like Trois couleurs or Paulo Coelho's And on the Seventh Day, but I think it'd be a first for gaming. Does it fly here? Is this something people are interested in seeing? I like idea, inXile likes the idea, but if it doesn't fly it doesn't fly. We'll see over the coming months whether the critics can be persuaded or if they feel the reasoning just doesn't work.

Maybe by using the torment IP they can actually get away with creating a setting very similar to Planescape ?

Don't really need any IP for that. But using Torment does let people know what they should expect, including a setting that is very non-standard. They'll talk more about the setting later though. No rush.

 

[skuphundaku]

That's also a unique idea though, so it's not like you can just say that and then expect people to accept it. It's been done in novels and movies, things like Trois couleurs or Paulo Coelho's And on the Seventh Day, but I think it'd be a first for gaming. Does it fly here? Is this something people are interested in seeing? I like idea, inXile likes the idea, but if it doesn't fly it doesn't fly. We'll see over the coming months whether the critics can be persuaded or if they feel the reasoning just doesn't work.

I like the idea too, so, if you're keeping score, increment by one.

 

[Kirtai]

Sounds like they're angling to make "Torment" a label for a (very) loose series of games all with offbeat settings, philosophical, subversive themes and tormented main characters.

 

[Don Peste]

It's time to bring down your MCA statues.

 

[MicoSelva]

Let's face it, Planescape: Torment was a one-time thing. There will never be another one. We can get great CRPGs, spiritual successors, games branded Torment or maybe even - at some time - a direct sequel set in the Planescape universe. We can get awesome, eerie game with pimped-out settings, companions wackier than Jack Sparrow on meth, and dialogue trees the size of Yggdrasil. We will however never again get this perfect mash-up of setting, story, characters, art direction, music and dialogues (combat could use some work, though it also wasn't bad IMO, fuck the haters). I might be wrong, and very much would like to, but I'm probably not.

It's nice that InXile has now the Torment brand. Makes sure nobody else will release a game under that name and make it a third-person cover shooter with romanceable gay elves, or something. Does it matter in the slightest when it comes to quality of the (probably) upcoming InXile game? No.

It's great that Colin McComb will be a part of this. He knows a lot about kitchen sink settings like Planescape, and I would gladly see a game in such a setting. The setting alone won't be enough for a good game, though. Also, InXile still has their credit of trust to pay back. If Wasteland 2 actually turns out good, Im going to be optimistic about this new Torment. Right now, whatever.

Pity that MCA won't be involved, but that means he will focus his time on Something Else = that Something Else will benefit from it. Since I'm buying all the Obsidian games like a mindless zombie, I will benefit from that (unless I don't have time to play them which seems to be the case for the last 3 years, ha!, sucks to be me), so no harm done.

I want another Torment. I will never get it, but that's ok. I'm more than happy to have experienced the original one, as it may have never happened. It is extremely hard to make such a game, otherwise someone else would have succeeded by now.