People News Chris Avellone gives his blessing to inXile's Torment successor, probably won't join

[Gondolin]

It's nice that InXile has now the Torment brand. Makes sure nobody else will release a game under that name and make it a third-person cover shooter with romanceable gay elves, or something.

<shudder> That silver lining is pretty important. Too bad the rest sounds like compromising across the line.

 

[Rake]

Let's face it, Planescape: Torment was a one-time thing. There will never be another one. We can get great CRPGs, spiritual successors, games branded Torment or maybe even - at some time - a direct sequel set in the Planescape universe. We can get awesome, eerie game with pimped-out settings, companions wackier than Jack Sparrow on meth, and dialogue trees the size of Yggdrasil. We will however never again get this perfect mash-up of setting, story, characters, art direction, music and dialogues (combat could use some work, though it also wasn't bad IMO, fuck the haters). I might be wrong, and very much would like to, but I'm probably not.

It's nice that InXile has now the Torment brand. Makes sure nobody else will release a game under that name and make it a third-person cover shooter with romanceable gay elves, or something. Does it matter in the slightest when it comes to quality of the (probably) upcoming InXile game? No.

It's great that Colin McComb will be a part of this. He knows a lot about kitchen sink settings like Planescape, and I would gladly see a game in such a setting. The setting alone won't be enough for a good game, though. Also, InXile still has their credit of trust to pay back. If Wasteland 2 actually turns out good, Im going to be optimistic about this new Torment. Right now, whatever.

Pity that MCA won't be involved, but that means he will focus his time on Something Else = that Something Else will benefit from it. Since I'm buying all the Obsidian games like a mindless zombie, I will benefit from that (unless I don't have time to play them which seems to be the case for the last 3 years, ha!, sucks to be me), so no harm done.

I want another Torment. I will never get it, but that's ok. I'm more than happy to have experienced the original one, as it may have never happened. It is extremely hard to make such a game, otherwise someone else would have succeeded by now.

I don't think there were many tries to do something similar. Remember,PS:T wasn't a huge success back in the day. It's fame was developed in a time period of 10 years

 

[MicoSelva]

I want another Torment. I will never get it, but that's ok. I'm more than happy to have experienced the original one, as it may have never happened. It is extremely hard to make such a game, otherwise someone else would have succeeded by now.

I don't think there were many tries to do something similar. Remember,PS:T wasn't a huge success back in the day. It's fame was developed in a time period of 10 years

Well, the difficulty to make this kind of game begins at pitch level, but it does not end there.

 

[l3loodAngel]

For those of you concerned about my writing ability, I'll point out that you can read the first book of Oathbreaker for free via Amazon or iTunes. I don't mean this to be a commercial, I should add (buy the second book) - I'd like you to see that I can actually deliver a story. If you download the first one, I don't get any money, and I don't receive any particular benefit except for the possibility that you like the story and want to continue reading the series. If you think it sucks, then you've got a fair basis for wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of clothes.

That is to say: You've got a right to be skeptical. I would be too.

I don't have anything against you, but I am a huge fan of MCA and PS setting. What am I exactly buying with your KS/game?

 

[General Maxson]

For those of you concerned about my writing ability, I'll point out that you can read the first book of Oathbreaker for free via Amazon or iTunes. I don't mean this to be a commercial, I should add (buy the second book) - I'd like you to see that I can actually deliver a story. If you download the first one, I don't get any money, and I don't receive any particular benefit except for the possibility that you like the story and want to continue reading the series. If you think it sucks, then you've got a fair basis for wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of clothes.

That is to say: You've got a right to be skeptical. I would be too.

I don't have anything against you, but I am a huge fan of MCA and PS setting. What am I exactly buying with your KS/game?

Dude WTF? It's just an idea, it won't even be pitched for a looong time. What information do you think he can give you now?

 

[l3loodAngel]

Dude WTF? It's just an idea, it won't even be pitched for a looong time. What information do you think he can give you now?

A rhetorical question?

 

[FeelTheRads]

A rhetorical question?

More like a dumbfuck retarded question.

But yeah, oh my, a game untouched by the god MCA obviously isn't even worth looking at!

 

[l3loodAngel]

A rhetorical question?

More like a dumbfuck retarded question.

But yeah, oh my, a game untouched by the god MCA obviously isn't even worth looking at!

Moral dilemmas, skills, color poll, crabs, scientists, unending stream of bullshit ... It broke my bullshit meter some time ago.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Moral dilemmas, skills, color poll, crabs, scientists, unending stream of bullshit ... It broke my bullshit meter some time ago.

You're talking about the Codex, right?

 

[Murk]

I don't have anything against you, but I am a huge fan of MCA and PS setting. What am I exactly buying with your KS/game?

Playing along here -- he wrote a lot for PS: T, and on top of that, worked on making the actual PS setting. So.. to be perfectly clear, if we are talking about PS influence spcifically -- he had more to do with it than MCA did.

 

[l3loodAngel]

I don't have anything against you, but I am a huge fan of MCA and PS setting. What am I exactly buying with your KS/game?

Playing along here -- he wrote a lot for PS: T, and on top of that, worked on making the actual PS setting. So.. to be perfectly clear, if we are talking about PS influence spcifically -- he had more to do with it than MCA did.

I have a question then. Can he recreate the setting and create a story that is not much worse, alone? I would be happy if they could find some NEW and gifted writers/designers that could then continue their legacy, but I somehow don't see this happening.

 

[Moribund]

He made the setting in the first place. We'll see on the rest, but considering there's never been another game like Torment from MCA maybe he doesn't deserve all the credit. After all like a dozen guys worked on it.

 

[Brother None]

I have a question then. Can he recreate the setting and create a story that is not much worse, alone? I would be happy if they could find some NEW and gifted writers/designers that could then continue their legacy, but I somehow don't see this happening.

Alone? He's not alone. They'll reveal more of the team as it solidifies and we come closer, but there's a number of core veteran guys whose work we are or should be familiar with. If all they had was McComb I might be a little more skeptical too, with all due respect to McComb, but video games tend to be high quality because of *numerous* very talented, creative people. That was the case for Planescape: Torment too, if less so than for other titles.

Young/new talent? Yes, I believe inXile has those too, albeit not in core roles. That's not really so interesting for the community though. Fargo can go "I'm really excited about this kid, he shows great potential!" but what would that mean to us? Until we see some proven work, young talent is just that, young unknown talent. It's not like you could sell Planescape: Torment at the time with MCA's name, or Fallout with Tim Cain's. Gotta build up your rep before you spend it.

He made the setting in the first place. We'll see on the rest, but considering there's never been another game like Torment from MCA maybe he doesn't deserve all the credit. After all like a dozen guys worked on it.

David "Zeb" Cook made the setting. But Colin McComb and Monte Cook were the creative leads after Zeb left, so his impact on the setting is indeed very big.

Zeb worked at Interplay for a while too. Zeb, Colin and MCA all had their own Planescape projects, but Zeb's turned into Stonekeep 2 and Colin's was cancelled. Zeb also worked on Fallout 2 but, as far as I know, not on Torment. Monte was important in this period too, he was at TSR and was one of the people acting as a liaison (I believe), since he and Colin were (and are, I think) good friends.

 

[Moribund]

Seems like if nothing else Fargo is good at spotting talent so I am interested to see how this works out.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Fargo can go "I'm really excited about this kid, he shows great potential!" but what would that mean to us?

About 20 pages ripping Fargo a new one for ever saying so?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Monte was important in this period too, he was at TSR and was one of the people acting as a liaison (I believe), since he and Colin were (and are, I think) good friends.

Cool. Maybe my hope for this game taking place in Numenera isn't that far off. It would benefit both of them, I think.

 

[skuphundaku]

Monte was important in this period too, he was at TSR and was one of the people acting as a liaison (I believe), since he and Colin were (and are, I think) good friends.

Cool. Maybe my hope for this game taking place in Numenera isn't that far off. It would benefit both of them, I think.

That would be pretty awesome!

 

[Murk]

I have a question then. Can he recreate the setting and create a story that is not much worse, alone? I would be happy if they could find some NEW and gifted writers/designers that could then continue their legacy, but I somehow don't see this happening.

Can? We are dealing with purely hypotheticals here. Brother None gave a better response, but I'd just restate that I believe a legitimate possibility is there without MCA's involvement. What will happen is a different matter and, in my opinion, pointless to speculate about.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Everything else aside, I do feel like we're too hung up on the Planescape setting as a necessary component of the kind of game that Torment was. While I'm a definite proponent of not having every RPG take place in medieval highfantasyland, you can just as well tell a similar story there too. You just need one thing, and that is to treat the metaphysics of your world seriously, following their moral and practical implications to their logical end, bitter as it may be.

This is how both KotoR2 and MotB have come to pass. It's not like the setting in MotB is particularly clever or novel, the writers just looked at the whole arrangement seriously, and exposed the depth of its injustice through the plot. It does take a certain measure of talent to do this, and most fantasy writers either fail miserably or don't even try, but it's not like you need to be fucking Dante or Milton to think up a good story for a videogame. The InXile dudes should do fine, so long as they remember what is truly important for the kind of game they're making.

A good example of not needing a supremely original setting for this kind of thing is Lesifoere's favourite writer, R.Scott Bakker. On the surface, his world is a fairly uninspiring combination of 11th century Europe (+ Mediterranean basin etc) and Middle Earth. However, he actually treats his metaphysics seriously - damnation is an objective reality (made all the more fun by there being no consensus on the specifics of it, just like it is for us); magic being expressed through spoken language implying the possibility of speaking a paradox (incidentally, all sorcerers are irretrievably damned); elves driven mad by their immortality, constantly losing memories of their past life, and intentionally seeking worse and worse traumas, because that's what they remember best; and so forth.

You can find an interesting theme for a story in the most generic of fantasy cliches if you look with the right mindset.

 

[l3loodAngel]

Alone? He's not alone. They'll reveal more of the team as it solidifies and we come closer, but there's a number of core veteran guys whose work we are or should be familiar with.

I use actions as benchmark, not PR bullshit. So far they have produced anything, but a solid news/ideas/design decisions. I refuse to get wet just because he is making WL2.

Do an experiment. Insert Fargo's news in to the mouth of any Bio employee and it will be met with mockery. So far he only proved that he is Todd Howard of Interplay.

inXile

Brian Fargo: A game division is obviously only as good as the talent it employs.

Fargo can go "I'm really excited about this kid, he shows great potential!" but what would that mean to us?

Fargo will say anything to get sales going. Your ugly? No problem! He will tweet to death that you are the hottest person on earth.

Until we see some proven work, young talent is just that, young unknown talent.

One half decent idea would be a good start.

David "Zeb" Cook made the setting. But Colin McComb and Monte Cook were the creative leads after Zeb left, so his impact on the setting is indeed very big.

Adding stuff to the created setting is not the same thing as creating stuff from scratch. You could call not spoiling stuff also a talent, but that's a different thing.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Adding stuff to the created setting is not the same thing as creating stuff from scratch

And how did Avellone do anything different ever? I could argue that without the strength of the Planescape setting, Torment wouldn't have been what it is, Avellone or not.

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if some dumbfuck 16 year old would think that Avellone invented the setting and did the whole game by himself.

By the way, isn't it time already to go suck off VD? He must be getting jealous with all this MCA worship?

 

[tuluse]

Do an experiment. Insert Fargo's news in to the mouth of any Bio employee and it will be met with mockery. So far he only proved that he is Todd Howard of Interplay.

"Squad based turn based combat"

When's the last time you heard someone use those words?

 

[Jasede]

What we really need is a good new Dark Sun, Ravenloft or Planescape game.
Or better yet, all three.

How can a setting as cool as Dark Sun have only have so few games?

 

[Mrowak]

Alone? He's not alone. They'll reveal more of the team as it solidifies and we come closer, but there's a number of core veteran guys whose work we are or should be familiar with.

I use actions as benchmark, not PR bullshit.

So far they have produced anything, but a solid news/ideas/design decisions. I refuse to get wet just because he is making WL2.

Someone has double standards.

Do an experiment. Insert Fargo's news in to the mouth of any Bio employee and it will be met with mockery. So far he only proved that he is Todd Howard of Interplay.

Funny thing, I used the exact same example with certain other party we'd discussed before.

 

[LeStryfe79]

It's almost retarded how many great settings 2e AD&D had. Man, I wish I hadn't taken that stuff for granted back then.