People News Chris Avellone grows a pair and fights back against being cancelled

[Outlander]

Are they tagging Greg Doucette the bodybuilder? WTF?

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

It's over, the accusers truly have an A-team supporting their cause, an actor/comic/video game journalists/boxer/attorney and a dude who made a mobile game once.

 

[Roguey]

Are they tagging Greg Doucette the bodybuilder? WTF?

No, this guy: "Ex-computer scientist, now criminal defense & 1A attorney in NC+TX. Host of @fsckemall. Dog lover. #NeverTrump conservative. Proud alum of @NCCU and @NCSt"

 

[Derringer]

Maybe. But given what Kotario posted up above and this other prog-activist lawyer's thoughts, it could be the right conclusion.

https://twitter.com/thewolflawyer/status/1409054608639463429



I'm not a lawyer or a legal expert so I have no idea if they're just plain wrong because their brains have been broken by their progressive politics or if they're just trying to do their part to intimidate Avellone into dropping the suit (DARVO since they're accusing him of trying to intimidate his accusers) or if they are in fact legally right (in which case I would absolutely believe it was intentional sabotage).

Is this what living in US is like? A complete loss of optimism and faith in humanity?

I don't think bolshevist faggots typing inane bullshit to deflect libel accusations with proof care about that, no.

 

[Lord of Riva]

The games he lists are exclusively mobile and he claims he lives in Berlin and Vienna so I have no idea why he's the recipient of American RPG dev gossip. Apparently some's been going around though? Peculiar how such allegedly-career-killing gossip wasn't made public back when everyone was piling on him.

Do not underestimate the feminist Whisper network twitter is a hotspot in which social hierarchies are enforced by Gossip all the time. Imagine High-school just apocalyptic in nature. The whole cesspool can enforce the hivemind only through fear of cancellations.

 

[Dexter]

Seems like it would be pretty easy to prove "malicious intent" if there's a digital trail of it in those ~60000 Twatter messages saying he doesn't deserve a job, deserves to be run out of the "games industry" and to be brought down? Would be a lot harder if these people were private about their thoughts and wouldn't be living every waking moment on Twatter. Also presumably some of the people named as witnesses, like whoever this "Scott" person is and presumably people who were there at the point of said incident are ready to speak about it?

 

[DeepOcean]

There's no reason for the Codex to be proud - the vast majority of people supported Chris out of a cult of personality and for political reasons because of who was accusing him. Chris could be accused of mass genocide with public proof and the Codex would still back him up.

We also supported that developer guy that suicided because Zoe Quinn also made similar bs claims like Karyssa did and of course we support Chris based that we know him, that is pretty self evident, if some random Ubisoft executive was accused of the same, it is hard to care about people that delivered such hits like Just Dance 2020. Also, if Sawyer was accused of the same, despite me hating his frozen in smugness San Francisco face, I would also support him but that would be hard because by the way that dude is... well, if his bike also accuses him of rape on twitter, I will support him.

 

[bionicman]

Chris endured false accusations for 1 year. In enduring them, he grew strong.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Oh, and for the people who say Chris wasn't harmed by this: Bullfuckshit.

Anyone making that argument is either a degenerate materialist or a retard. Probably both. There's more in a life than its fucking finances.

 

[mondblut]

Someone archive these twits. There will be a lot of deletions once Chris skins the skanks. Would be a shame if their employers and clients saw these as a proof of their competence, ain't it?

 

[Larianshill]

I don't think anyone will care.

 

[Eli_Havelock]

https://twitter.com/thewolflawyer/status/1409054608639463429

I'm not a lawyer or a legal expert so I have no idea if they're just plain wrong because their brains have been broken by their progressive politics or if they're just trying to do their part to intimidate Avellone into dropping the suit (DARVO since they're accusing him of trying to intimidate his accusers) or if they are in fact legally right (in which case I would absolutely believe it was intentional sabotage).

That account reads like a career ambulance-chaser. A honking career ambulance-chaser.

 

[Absinthe]

Maybe. But given what Kotario posted up above and this other prog-activist lawyer's thoughts, it could be the right conclusion.

Eh, I looked her up, and found a conspicuous absence of social media accounts, with LinkedIn being the closest thing. No Facebook, no Twitter, no Instagram/whatever. Considering how internet attention whoring is the backbone of SJWism, I tend to rate that as a pretty solid indicator that she is probably not a part of that crowd.

As for Kotario's embedded twitter thread (Link), I am not a lawyer but I've looked at US defamation of character cases before and I have to say Schmeyer comes off as a tool.

First of all, while I strongly expect an anti-SLAPP motion to be filed since it seems to be the kind of "worth a try" activity anyone who has to defend against these suits will attempt on the off chance it succeeds, Chris Avellone obviously has a strong enough case (he has significant real ("special") damages, clear reputational ("general") damage, and clearly hostile character attacks from the defendant that can be pointed to as causing the damage) to make that sort of summary dismissal extremely unlikely unless he proceeds to misbehave so badly in public and in court that the court gets sick of his shit. Not to mention he waited an entire year before suing so the argument that he is just trying to "silence the story" isn't going to be quite as persuasive to the courts since he obviously waited long enough for the entire story to get out there before suing.

The complaint that he shouldn't've filed it in California owing to anti-SLAPP laws is therefore dumb as his case is obviously going to overcome such a motion and because Chris Avellone indeed lives in California and conducts his business in California so he should file it in California instead of engaging in the dubious practice of venue shopping (which most courts tend not to appreciate, and the more you attempt to game the legal system, the less likely the courts are to rule in your favor because it annoys the shit out of them and being an asshole who abuses the legal process is considered an acceptable basis for a judge to screw over your case regardless of its merits - this is why you usually don't want to try playing stupid games with the legal process). Trying to sue elsewhere is much more likely to get him pointed back to California courts over jurisdictional issues and have him end up suing in CA anyway only with the courts being less favorably inclined for the attempted venue-shopping. So this is shitty advice.

He also argues that his lawyer shouldn't be attempting to argue that Chris Avellone is a public figure. The lawyer isn't actually going that far, but it also doesn't matter so much, since actual malice is provable in this case (not only are there tweets from Karissa herself at the time having a distinctly more positive recollection of her interactions with Chris Avellone, lending considerable weight to the notion that she was knowingly lying about what happened, but there is a 2014 tweet of Karissa saying she has no abuse story of her own which Avellone himself cites in his medium article, which makes her retroactive abuse story in 2012 and 2013 also demonstrably deliberate lies and deceptions - provided you can prove that her recent version of events is indeed factually wrong - and you have her publicly delighting in getting Avellone fired from his workplaces) and they are indeed going for proving actual malice. Since the entire problem of being a "public figure" in a defamation of character suit is having to prove the higher standard of actual malice, this isn't really an issue in this case anyway.

Calling Avellone as belonging to the "gaming industry predator garbage pile" might be held as an opinion rather than a statement of fact, but that opinion can still be pointed to as indicating malice on the part of Karissa towards Avellone.

Schmeyer's argument that all Karissa needs to prove is that she was drinking Midori Sours to dispute the filing is also wrong, as you can disprove "on the company dime," "pouncing on her in front of other guys," "doing the same to other girls," and probably more.

This stuff goes on a bit. The part where he ridicules Avellone about literally pleading hurt feelings is also dumb, because things like emotional distress and reputational harm are in fact part of the general damages you can and will seek redress for in a defamation of character lawsuit. It's amazing how as a lawyer this guy doesn't seem to be aware of that fact, and it leads me to suspect that he doesn't actually have expertise in defamation of character lawsuits.

Basically Schmeyer dislikes Avellone and is deliberately trying to find fault with his filing, but that's kind of obvious from his conclusion.

 

[Sentinel]

There's no reason for the Codex to be proud - the vast majority of people supported Chris out of a cult of personality and for political reasons because of who was accusing him. Chris could be accused of mass genocide with public proof and the Codex would still back him up.

We also supported that developer guy that suicided because Zoe Quinn also made similar bs claims like Karyssa did and of course we support Chris based that we know him, that is pretty self evident, if some random Ubisoft executive was accused of the same, it is hard to care about people that delivered such hits like Just Dance 2020. Also, if Sawyer was accused of the same, despiting me hating his frozen in smugness San Francisco face, I would also support him but that would be hard because by the way that dude is... well, if his bike also accuses him of rape on twitter, I will support him.

You're completely proving my point. "I wouldn't support a guy that made shit games" (ubisoft) and "We supported that guy accused by zoe quinn" (political reasons). Exactly, I know that. That's exactly what I said. 95% of people here support Avellone out of reflex, either for political reasons or for a cult of personality. It's nothing to be ashamed of, just don't pretend it's an achievement, lol.

I have that tendency as well, even though I recognize the possibility that Avellone's nigh-alcoholic past erased some thing from his memory. Every time he says "I don't remember any of this" in his post I can't help but think "does he not remember because it didn't happen, or does he not remember because he was drunk out of his mind?"

My skepticism doesn't mean I believe the woman's accounts of the events btw. She's 100% personally motivated and only wants to destroy his life.

 

[Eli_Havelock]

There's no reason for the Codex to be proud - the vast majority of people supported Chris out of a cult of personality and for political reasons because of who was accusing him. Chris could be accused of mass genocide with public proof and the Codex would still back him up.

We also supported that developer guy that suicided because Zoe Quinn also made similar bs claims like Karyssa did and of course we support Chris based that we know him, that is pretty self evident, if some random Ubisoft executive was accused of the same, it is hard to care about people that delivered such hits like Just Dance 2020. Also, if Sawyer was accused of the same, despiting me hating his frozen in smugness San Francisco face, I would also support him but that would be hard because by the way that dude is... well, if his bike also accuses him of rape on twitter, I will support him.

You're completely proving my point. "I wouldn't support a guy that made shit games" (ubisoft) and "We supported that guy accused by zoe quinn" (political reasons). Exactly, I know that. That's exactly what I said. 95% of people here support Avellone out of reflex, either for political reasons or for a cult of personality. It's nothing to be ashamed of, just don't pretend it's an achievement, lol.

Or maybe it's a history of the industry pushing back against "cancel culture" whether it was the Satanic Panic or another religion decades later.

Does ANYONE believe your low-info retardo? Seriously, I gotta know.

Edit: Read their post again to see how it was said they would support even those they didn't care about if the same happened to them, so their position wasn't cult of personality nor was it political. So thanks for proving MY point.

 

[Cat]

Chris, I am sorry for calling you a spineless cuck. I take it all back.

 

[Tiger]

Chris, I am sorry for calling you a spineless cuck. I take it all back.

He'll see you in court. Deus Vult motherfucker.

 

[DeepOcean]

You're completely proving my point. "I wouldn't support a guy that made shit games" (ubisoft) and "We supported that guy accused by zoe quinn" (political reasons). Exactly, I know that. That's exactly what I said. 95% of people here support Avellone out of reflex, either for political reasons or for a cult of personality. It's nothing to be ashamed of, just don't pretend it's an achievement, lol.

And you are just proving your lacking of reading comprehension, it isnt hard to come to the shocking conclusion that a site that likes RPGs care more about people who make RPGs than some random dude we dont know about, what you expect? Lets go talk about the case of Mr. Ubisoft middle manager we never heard about and was too busy making microtransactions to Ass Creed? If MRY, BlackThorne, Pike and all other developer dudes we actually care about suffered the same fate we would be pissed but on your world, caring about someone you actually give a shit is cult of personality.

And, duh, Mr. Obvious, political ideology that says demanding proof of claimed crimes is equal to be a white male supremacist nazi killer of puppies and openly defend trial by mob actually is known of doing: trail by mob and being full of bs crime claims, sure, you totally should trust any stranger that says you are a nazi because you dont believe on their claims, if you dont, you are a nazi out for the blood of the poor SJWs.

 

[Lord of Riva]

You're completely proving my point. "I wouldn't support a guy that made shit games" (ubisoft) and "We supported that guy accused by zoe quinn" (political reasons). Exactly, I know that. That's exactly what I said. 95% of people here support Avellone out of reflex, either for political reasons or for a cult of personality. It's nothing to be ashamed of, just don't pretend it's an achievement, lol.

It is something to be ashamed of, but go right ahead and tell yourself that it isn't. If you believe that justice should only come to those you like (or are in your tribe), you are an Animal.

In fact it is the other why around, because your instinct, of course does that, you need to take a step back and give the benefit of the doubt, otherwise we can just go start hanging people again randomly.

EDIT: and don't get me wrong, thats goes for everyone who believes that.

 

[Gruncheon]

If someone is a lawyer with no personal involvement, and they have the time+desire to go through a minor civil case about a relatively obscure guy—right on the edge of what's considered a public figure—all to post their take on it on Twitter, I sincerely doubt they're a particularly successful lawyer. Imagine actually reading Chris' paperwork without being paid to do so.

Absolutely screams "I graduated from a low tier toilet where I was not on law review, and now spend my days on legal work so soulcrushingly dull that I must desperately chase Twitter clout to stave off the growing realization that I made a terrible mistake."

Perhaps it isn't the case, but it's what my gut tells me about most Twitter lawposters who aren't talking about things of serious import or academic/comedic interest.

Not an American lawyer, so can't comment on the intricacies of American civil pleading but in my jurisdiction (and I believe this is an pretty frequent feature of common law systems) you typically plead every possible defendant and every possible claim in a lot of different permutations at the outset of a suit. From a plaintiff's perspective, it makes a lot more sense to plead everything at the outset as, if you fail to name the correct defendants or fail to take the correct action at law, the result can be disastrous. So you want to plead every possible defendant, every possible head of liability, and the judge will simply strike out some of these claims as the suit proceeds, which doesn't cost you anything. I would assume that's what's happening here with the agency stuff that this 'Wolf Lawyer' is criticising, and it has very little to do with what is obviously the meat and potatoes of the action (false accusations of sexual misconduct causing reputational damage).

As a more general point, I've learned not to trust twitter lawyers who effect this faux-exasperated argot that's a mixture between Chuck Wendig, Reddit, and a flaccid middle aged white man's idea of what a sassy black teen talks like: "Le sigh, logging onto twitter dot com to see some chucklefuck getting the law on agency ass backwards. That's a yikes from me, y'all. Time to slurp up some coffee (yum) and drop some legal knowledge bombs on all y'alls timelines. Btw, if I were a successful middle-aged game developer, I simply would not sexually harass my (underpaid) female colleagues. But I guess that's just too much to ask in 2021?"

You'll notice in his twitter post that there's a slightly histrionic tone, where he's clearly trying to portray the suit as something so completely ridiculous that no sane person could think that Avellone has a chance. I assume many of us have been following the evidence in Avellone's case as it's emerged and I think it's clear, on even the briefest review of the facts, that these accusation are very flawed. You don't have to subscribe to the idea that these women are just outright lying (though I think that's obviously the case here) to admit that Avellone's case clearly has a certain degree of weight behind it - it's not a crazy or frivolous claim. It's a very persistent pattern with the online left in particular - completely misrepresent the other side's position and ridicule that position as if it were so ridiculous that it deserves no scrutiny. And do it all while pretending that you're oh so aghast at having to even deign to engage with the argument. It's pathetic and, at its core, a very effeminate, faggy way of engaging in conflict.

 

[DeepOcean]

You're completely proving my point. "I wouldn't support a guy that made shit games" (ubisoft) and "We supported that guy accused by zoe quinn" (political reasons). Exactly, I know that. That's exactly what I said. 95% of people here support Avellone out of reflex, either for political reasons or for a cult of personality. It's nothing to be ashamed of, just don't pretend it's an achievement, lol.

It is something to be ashamed of, but go right ahead and tell yourself that it isn't. If you believe that justice should only come to those you like (or are in your tribe), you are an Animal.

In fact it is the other why around, because your instinct, of course does that, you need to take a step back and give the benefit of the doubt, otherwise we can just go start hanging people again randomly.

EDIT: and don't get me wrong, thats goes for everyone who believes that.

How can you give the benefit of the doubt if the person that makes the accusation refuses to make a clear point, refuses to use the law and totally depends on mob pressure to silence those who question her?

 

[Sentinel]

You're completely proving my point. "I wouldn't support a guy that made shit games" (ubisoft) and "We supported that guy accused by zoe quinn" (political reasons). Exactly, I know that. That's exactly what I said. 95% of people here support Avellone out of reflex, either for political reasons or for a cult of personality. It's nothing to be ashamed of, just don't pretend it's an achievement, lol.

And you are just proving your lacking of reading comprehension, it isnt hard to come to the shocking conclusion that a site that likes RPGs care more about people who make RPGs than some random dude we dont know about, what you expect? Lets go talk about the case of Mr. Ubisoft middle manager we never heard about and was too busy making microtransactions to Ass Creed? If MRY, BlackThorne, Pike and all other developer dudes we actually care about suffered the same fate we would be pissed but on your world, caring about someone you actually give a shit is cult of personality.

And, duh, Mr. Obvious, political ideology that says demanding proof of claimed crimes is equal to be a white male supremacist nazi killer of puppies and openly defend trial by mob actually is known of doing: trail by mob and being full of bs crime claims, sure, you totally should trust any stranger that says you are a nazi because you dont believe on their claims, if you dont, you are a nazi out for the blood of the poor SJWs.

You don't care about MCA because you like RPGs, you care about MCA because you like him and he posted here, so he's part of your "tribe" and you must defend him no matter what, which is why you also pointed out other RPG-devs that post here. He retired nearly 10 years ago. He has nothing to do with RPGs anymore.

but on your world, caring about someone you actually give a shit is cult of personality.

No, immediately believing someone you care about without even questioning anything is a cult of personality.

You're completely proving my point. "I wouldn't support a guy that made shit games" (ubisoft) and "We supported that guy accused by zoe quinn" (political reasons). Exactly, I know that. That's exactly what I said. 95% of people here support Avellone out of reflex, either for political reasons or for a cult of personality. It's nothing to be ashamed of, just don't pretend it's an achievement, lol.

It is something to be ashamed of, but go right ahead and tell yourself that it isn't. If you believe that justice should only come to those you like (or are in your tribe), you are an Animal.

In fact it is the other why around, because your instinct, of course does that, you need to take a step back and give the benefit of the doubt, otherwise we can just go start hanging people again randomly.

EDIT: and don't get me wrong, thats goes for everyone who believes that.

Ashamed is a heavy word. You shouldn't feel ashamed, but you should reevaluate your thought process because tribalism makes you look like a retard.

 

[kalganoat]

Probably just lighting and makeup but it seems this bitch hit THE WALL hard in 2013.

 

[deuxhero]

Roguey, real-life immigration rights has fuck-all to do with SJW style "diversity and inclusion." I'll give you a hint: One works with actual immigrants and actual problems, pursuing actual solutions. The other stays the fuck away from people like that in life but goes on twitter tirades complaining about fictional representation and language on behalf of imaginary persecuted minorities and imagines herself a champion of truth and justice for it because her circlejerk of fair-weather friends said so. And the former group usually dislikes the latter group because they make the struggle for human rights seem petty and retarded.

You're just jumping to conclusions and being judgmental, really.

Maybe. But given what Kotario posted up above and this other prog-activist lawyer's thoughts, it could be the right conclusion.

https://twitter.com/thewolflawyer/status/1409054608639463429

These Plaintiff’s lawyers at Johnson & Johnson are lucky they’re a media law firm without a twitter presence because I would be dragging them so hard right now. Neville Johnson ought to be ashamed of this pleading. Utter garbage.

So the firm’s website contains these counters. I suspect this litigation will result in an increase in the number of media articles and features. Possibly a few media articles and features about how apparently their client, Chris Avellone, is a sex pest. Good move geniuses.

There are 100 defendants who are all agents of one another. So either, the most convoluted agency authority in history was drafted for the express purpose of creating a paper trail of a conspiracy to defame this bloke or they’re relying on ostensible agency.

Ostensible agency requires that the principal, not the agent, did something which conveyed that the agent was within the scope of their authority. I wonder what these 100 anonymous people did which suggests, objectively that they authorised the others to speak on their behalf.

That seems near impossible to prove. I’m sure the brilliant lawyers at Johnson & Johnson are up to the task and this isn’t just some censorious nonsense designed to chill anyone who would otherwise be anonymously critical of their client into silence. Surely not.

Obviously it’s impossible to conspire with yourself. Can an agent, acting on behalf of their principal and within the scope of their agency, therefore be conspiring with their principal? I’ve never thought about it. Can 100 agents who are also principals be conspiring together?

Christ on a bike: I’m innumerate so maybe I’m wrong but it seems to me that they need to prove about 20,000 agency relationships based on objective facts. If they’re very efficient and the court takes no days off that should only take about 50 years.

I'm not a lawyer or a legal expert so I have no idea if they're just plain wrong because their brains have been broken by their progressive politics or if they're just trying to do their part to intimidate Avellone into dropping the suit (DARVO since they're accusing him of trying to intimidate his accusers) or if they are in fact legally right (in which case I would absolutely believe it was intentional sabotage).

The self proclaimed "lawtwitter" group are known to be retards at best if not intentionally intellectually dishonest. Most of the ones that are actually licensed to practice are academics who have never actually practiced law, and more still are paralegals or students and not actual lawyers. It turns out actual lawyers have better things to do than whine on Twitter all day. These "people" are so laughable just calling them fat makes them shit themselves.

 

[Eli_Havelock]

You're completely proving my point. "I wouldn't support a guy that made shit games" (ubisoft) and "We supported that guy accused by zoe quinn" (political reasons). Exactly, I know that. That's exactly what I said. 95% of people here support Avellone out of reflex, either for political reasons or for a cult of personality. It's nothing to be ashamed of, just don't pretend it's an achievement, lol.

And you are just proving your lacking of reading comprehension, it isnt hard to come to the shocking conclusion that a site that likes RPGs care more about people who make RPGs than some random dude we dont know about, what you expect? Lets go talk about the case of Mr. Ubisoft middle manager we never heard about and was too busy making microtransactions to Ass Creed? If MRY, BlackThorne, Pike and all other developer dudes we actually care about suffered the same fate we would be pissed but on your world, caring about someone you actually give a shit is cult of personality.

And, duh, Mr. Obvious, political ideology that says demanding proof of claimed crimes is equal to be a white male supremacist nazi killer of puppies and openly defend trial by mob actually is known of doing: trail by mob and being full of bs crime claims, sure, you totally should trust any stranger that says you are a nazi because you dont believe on their claims, if you dont, you are a nazi out for the blood of the poor SJWs.

You don't care about MCA because you like RPGs, you care about MCA because you like him and he posted here, so he's part of your "tribe" and you must defend him no matter what, which is why you also pointed out other RPG-devs that post here. He retired nearly 10 years ago. He has nothing to do with RPGs anymore.

but on your world, caring about someone you actually give a shit is cult of personality.

No, immediately believing someone you care about without even questioning anything is a cult of personality.

You're completely proving my point. "I wouldn't support a guy that made shit games" (ubisoft) and "We supported that guy accused by zoe quinn" (political reasons). Exactly, I know that. That's exactly what I said. 95% of people here support Avellone out of reflex, either for political reasons or for a cult of personality. It's nothing to be ashamed of, just don't pretend it's an achievement, lol.

It is something to be ashamed of, but go right ahead and tell yourself that it isn't. If you believe that justice should only come to those you like (or are in your tribe), you are an Animal.

In fact it is the other why around, because your instinct, of course does that, you need to take a step back and give the benefit of the doubt, otherwise we can just go start hanging people again randomly.

EDIT: and don't get me wrong, thats goes for everyone who believes that.

Ashamed is a heavy word. You shouldn't feel ashamed, but you should reevaluate your thought process because tribalism makes you look like a retard.

I get it. This is a bad comedy act that pretends it can't read worth a shit. Thanks for bringing me up to speed on that.