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Civilization II is the best strategy and might be the best game of all time

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Makabb, Aug 23, 2019.

  1. axx Learned

    axx
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    Dang I wish I could make units like these. A fine piece of art on a 64x48 pixel frame. Years ago I tried to make a dinosaur scenario, in the spirit of the officially released one in FW, but my artwork wasn't up to the standards.
     
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  2. Blake00 Learned

    Blake00
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    yeah I can't draw new units either.. all I can do is import other peoples stuff and play with them a bit haha.

    I never did play the Dinosaur scenario in Civ2.. played plenty of the Dinosaur missions in C&C1 though lol.

    Oh and thanks to Storyfag 's post making me think of the old Apocalypse scenario.. I'm now playing it again instead of working on my mods haha.

    .
     
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  3. index.php Arcane

    index.php
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    https://github.com/FoxAhead/Civ2-UI-Additions/releases
     
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  4. Blake00 Learned

    Blake00
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    Cheers, I think I'm a few versions behind so will go and update.
     
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  5. Lagi Savant

    Lagi
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    as we all know the best civ2 is SMAC. But what would be the second best civ2 like experience? Any mod compilation recommendation?
     
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  6. Blake00 Learned

    Blake00
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    For anyone wondering it looks like axx has been posting more about his opensource rebuild of Civilization 2 over at CivFinatics here:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/making-a-clone-of-civ-ii.649543/page-3#post-15983617

    Civ2's original source files were apparently lost in the downfall of Microprose, so it would be interesting to see what the fan community could do with an opensource Civ2 rebuild. Before anyone says it yes there's FreeCiv and C-Evo but they're not 1:1 Civ2 clones (that attempt to replicate everything Civ2 does). They're their own Civ games that have a bit of Civ2 feel to them but are written completely differently and contain bits from multiple Civ games as well as using their own unique features & ideas.

    Screenshots from his project:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. TemplarGR Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Bethestard

    TemplarGR
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    It was great for 1996, as there wasn't much competition, although to be honest i prefered Conquest of the New World and Lords of the Realm II at that time period, didn't care much about Civ II other than the funny FMV advisors.

    Problem was that by Civ III there was better competition, and despite the production values of IV+, it has been greatly surprassed as a game design.

    When your AAA developer studio is forced to adopt fundamental changes to your 30 year old formula from a game that was literally the first land map 4X its indy studio ever made (Endless Legend), then you know your product is beyond stale....

    I agree that Civilization franchise in general is overrated. There are many better 4Xes out there that don't sell nearly as much and it is a shame.
     
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  8. RayF Arcane Patron Developer

    RayF
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    Civ 1 was the same game but tighter. I played them both extensively. Civ 2 was prettier and moddable, but the game design was much more bloated and micro-intensive than Civ1. The sequel is what started my tendency towards playing on small maps just so I could finish a game.
     
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  9. Nutria Liturgist

    Nutria
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    I played this again recently. It really does not hold up because like almost all 4x games not from Microprose in that era, the AI just doesn't know how to compete with you.

    I tend to agree with you that MOO2 went too far in just adding stuff that wastes your time versus MOO1, but I have to disagree with you here. Civ2 was very restrained. There was tweaking of the tech tree, units, etc. but nothing too drastic. The only new mechanics I can think of that they introduced are stuff like the peace treaties where the AI can't just sneak a settler past you and the hitpoint system, both of which were what players felt fixed problems from Civ1.
     
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  10. TemplarGR Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Bethestard

    TemplarGR
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    I know, but still, in 1997 it was a great game to play. It didn't have the stone age to modern age shenanigans of Civ II, but it was way more focused, and had a cool battle system too. Obviously it is obsolete these days apart from nostalgia reasons.
     
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  11. Nutria Liturgist

    Nutria
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    The tactical battles in Conquest of the New World are pretty damn good if you're fucking blasting the Last of the Mohicans soundtrack at the same time.
     
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  12. RayF Arcane Patron Developer

    RayF
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    It's been so long that I went back and looked up the tech charts... looks like it grew from about 67ish techs with Civ 1 to 89 or 90 with Civ 2. That alone is >30% growth in the tech charts. I would expect there would be a similar increase in the number of units.

    The games worked over the same timespans so that meant the pace of discovery was 30% or so faster. Which meant you had less time to build and use your military units before they became obsolete. I played both Civ 1 and Civ 2 quite a bit and I do distinctly remember just skipping unit types entirely because of this.

    I think I modded Civ 2 a bit to try and slow it down. It was a great game and I loved it, but Civ 1 just felt like a tighter design to me.
     
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  13. TemplarGR Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Bethestard

    TemplarGR
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    IIRC you could even play just the battles without playing a full blown 4X game. Lots of fun.
     
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  14. Nutria Liturgist

    Nutria
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    This is a legitimate criticism. Like they clearly intended knights to be a big deal, and pikemen as a counter to them, but it was easier just to bypass them. I slightly prefer Civ 2 but both of them still hold up well today and are much better than the bloated 4x games we're told we have to like now.
     
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  15. Lagi Savant

    Lagi
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    there is clone of Civ2, C-evo. where you can design your own military units, and add them abilities abilities (pretty cool). Problem is the technological advance is soo fast. You have no chance to create any military expedition, without them being obsolete when they disembark from the boats. [other thing is it not worth to create an expedition army, just spam a line of your best troops, because the support cost is laughably low, and you can lower it to zero with Fundamentalism]

    If technology advance would be slower, you would have more times to create and move your units, to reach the enemy empires, before the gunpowder is invented.
     
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  16. Storyfag Perfidious Pole Patron

    Storyfag
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    Civ III easily solves this issue by allowing you to grant a unit multiple moves or setting a minimum research time to something like 16 turns.
     
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  17. Blake00 Learned

    Blake00
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    I guess it's time to finally show my Red Alert project I've been mentioning! All the skills I've learned making the Heroes of Might & Magic and Command & Conquer scenarios above is now being put into the hardest scenario I have ever attempted! A Red Alert 2 Siege of New York scenario where you'll be battling it out in city streets between huge sky scrapers.. and yes I know I'm crazy as that's totally something the Civ2 engine wasn't built for hahaha!

    No new HoMM2 scenario dev diaries atm but there will be one soon as I'm about to do final testing.

    Here are the first 3 dev diaries on the Red Alert 2 Siege of New York scenario. Disclaimer - Hopefully the final product will be waaaaay better than all these WIP test shots but I gotta start somewhere haha.

    In this first dev diary we look at experimenting with Civ2's terrain limits & using some sneaky tricks to begin creating a Red Alert 2 style city map with Liberty island, bridges and buildings.

    RA2 Dev Diary 01 - Liberty Island, Bridges & Buildings in the Civilization 2 - Red Alert 2 Scenario
    https://www.moddb.com/mods/civiliza...cenario/news/liberty-island-bridges-buildings
    [​IMG]

    .

    In the second dev diary we look at adding bigger buildings, Command centers with walls, and lots of other nice decoration trying to push Civ2's terrain limits.

    RA2 Dev Diary 02 - Bigger Buildings & More Decoration in the Civilization 2 - Red Alert 2 Scenario
    https://www.moddb.com/mods/civiliza...cenario/news/bigger-buildings-more-decoration
    [​IMG]

    .

    In the third dev diary we look at adding special fun buildings like the McBurger Kong and Petrol Station, while overhauling all previously made small buildings to much better quality.

    RA2 Dev Diary 03 - McBurger Kong & Better Quality Buildings in the Civilization 2 - Red Alert 2 Scenario
    https://www.moddb.com/mods/civiliza...-scenario/news/mcburger-kong-better-buildings
    [​IMG]

    .
     
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  18. Gnidrologist CONDUCTOR

    Gnidrologist
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    Me too. Didn't even have my first PC yet and despite what some may think, it was amazing on it. Years later i tried to play it on PC and it didn't have the charm that i remembered from psx version. I think it's graphics and sound design was "warmer", while don't think it lacked any of the functionality of the original. It also had nice music tracks. I think there was only 4 of them, but they were all atmospheric and memorable. The PC versions i tried have no in game music at all, sounds are robust and graphically it feels like playing a word document than being immersed in ancient world.
    Found a vid that shows of the psx version with all the music and stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY8HpbL1tig&ab_channel=GazShadowplay Feel nostalgic now. Thinking of getting me some emulator.
     
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  19. Blake00 Learned

    Blake00
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    Yeah I own the psx copy of Civ2 in my playstation collection (along with the lesser known 2.5D japanese conversion of Civ1!). The psx version has nicer sound quality and it certainly has a nice warm and colourful titleset however there was no title rastering so it could get a pretty bad 'patchwork quilt' look on those random maps, whereas on PC different terrains blended better thanks to the rastering and it had better multi tile connected forest/hill/mountain formations. The PC version had 17 music tracks, so thats impressive that you could try multiple versions of it and somehow miss that you didn't have the cd with all the music and videos on it (and come to the assumption that the game never had one???) considering the game asks for/forces it lol, so presumably you were trying cracked bare bones copies then. The psx tracks are nice but 4 tracks gets pretty lousy when you're playing a big long game which is what usually happens in Civ games lol. Biggest thing for me is that psx version came with no scenarios or mod support (since such things would have been a bit difficult on a playstation lol) however even the vanilla bare bores day 1 release of the PC version came with the popular World War 2 and Rise of Rome scenarios built in, so I was surprised they didn't even bother to do that with the psx release. Scenario and mod support has lead to 25 years of literally thousands of custom maps and stunning total conversion scenarios ensuring the PC version has infinitely more replayability than the psx version. Finally as someone who's put a lot of hours in playing console versions of Civ games with a controller accessing menus inside of menus for things I could do with 1-2 clicks in the pc versions I can say the mouse with a mouse based interface is just so much better lol.
     
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  20. Blake00 Learned

    Blake00
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    I've been finding the craziest civ2 modpacks lately lol

    eg.. Doom
    [​IMG]

    Judge Dredd
    [​IMG]

    Also finding so many freaky total conversion mods I didn't know about.. have been rescuing them from apolyton archive backups and posting them at civfinatics.

    I realise i should be working on finishing my own scenarios but god its fun treasure hunting for other peoples masterpieces lost over time haha!

    .
     
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  21. Dzupakazul Arbiter

    Dzupakazul
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    Nice thread. Reminds me that during 2020 I have been trying to launch a really fast spaceship on Deity. I ended up not approaching the crazy launches of the old Apolyton posters, but I did hit a fairly comfortable landing in 1700 AD.

    Game is still rather fun and complex, although the AIs don't pose enough of a challenge so I pick it up specifically to speedrun a victory condition. Knocking out 2 techs per 1 turn with a properly set up Democracy is good, but so is turning off research post-Monotheism and killing everything with Triremes and Crusaders.
     
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  22. Israfael Arcane

    Israfael
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    Always loved Civ2 because of the Fundamentalism option (kinda very IRL, amirite), but I think Civ4 and SMAC are clearly superior to it in terms of diplomacy / general game mechanics. 1UPT is cancer though and should die along with nu-xcom
     
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  23. axx Learned

    axx
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    Civ1&2 lack AI logic, not surprising as the 1st was made by 2 guys, and civ2 by a handful of programmers. I guess overall the later civs improved on this.
    Fundamentalism was OP. Looking at rapid expansion of ISIS there are parallels, at least in terms of no revolts in cities :)
     
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  24. catfood AGAIN

    catfood
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    Yep, especially once you have all the tech there's not reason not to switch over to fundamentalism.
     
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  25. Dzupakazul Arbiter

    Dzupakazul
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    To me, Fundy is a tech that looks great on paper but the game ends before I bother to employ it - it's either a ride-it-out Monarchy conquest or a Republic->Democracy all the way. Democracy can also be set up for warfare (though heavy world wonder support helps, particularly anchoring all units to a Shakespeare's Theatre city) and it still produces ridiculous amounts of population and trade for pumping more production and cashrushing huge armies and infrastructure.
     
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