Civilization VI - Now available, so you can sink all your free time into it

[MadMaxHellfire]

I do like the eureka boosts for tech from Civ 6, though. I'll miss that.

don't. it's the classic korean browser game/cell phone game mechanics which rewards every little step you take but channels you in a very straightforward direction. think about it, if you ever want to progress in the most efficient way now you MUST obey the eureka triggers.

 

[Jimmious]

And what's the problem with that? You have a problem killing 3 barbarians in order to advance faster in warfare or with improving 3 tiles to make your improvements better in the future?
Eureka boosts are a good new system and makes you take moment to moment decisions depending on what is happening. Hm, I'm building a trader in 5 turns so I can start the research that gets a boost from that and it'll get a boost on the way etc

 

[Agame]

Yup. Wonders are something you have to plan way in advance, checking their requirements in the tech tree and making sure you have the right spot for it. But most of them are crap anyhow, you really only need to know the big ones like Ruhr Valley, Oxford etc.

Another big decline, lets make all the wonders banal boring batshit... Just one more 'new age game design' mechanic, make everything equally shit so that nothing is OP. Thanks MMOs! Its good to see your shitty design philosophy spreading into single player games.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

And what's the problem with that? You have a problem killing 3 barbarians in order to advance faster in warfare or with improving 3 tiles to make your improvements better in the future?
Eureka boosts are a good new system and makes you take moment to moment decisions depending on what is happening. Hm, I'm building a trader in 5 turns so I can start the research that gets a boost from that and it'll get a boost on the way etc

if you can't see how you're gated through a forced way of playing instead of carving your own path i can't say anything more.

 

[Jimmious]

And what's the problem with that? You have a problem killing 3 barbarians in order to advance faster in warfare or with improving 3 tiles to make your improvements better in the future?
Eureka boosts are a good new system and makes you take moment to moment decisions depending on what is happening. Hm, I'm building a trader in 5 turns so I can start the research that gets a boost from that and it'll get a boost on the way etc

if you can't see how you're gated through a forced way of playing instead of carving your own path i can't say anything more.

Don't say anything more then. I play the game and I'm not "gated" through any way of playing apart from the one I choose depending on situation, at least so far.
Maybe what you say has some point if you want to play with extreme efficiency but I don't see how the old research system was any better in that case.
The current system is much more interesting than just picking a path and letting it run its course as fast as you pump research points into it.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

I don't see how the old research system was any better in that case.

because if you want to do anything other than being bitchslapped you now MUST play how the game tells you so instead of following your own rules. double research speed is HUGE, several magnitudes bigger than any wonder in the game.

 

[Great Deceiver]

While I do agree to an extent that eureka boosts do "gate" you if you're after max efficiency, it's just a more responsive way of giving the player feedback. There's always been and there's always going to be an optimal build order an an optimal tech order - it's just more immediately intuitive and transparent now, and more rewarding too.

I am however in complete agreement with the argument that the AI is unable to use these boosts effectively and therefore players will always have a huge advantage in tech - which I did in my very first game on Prince without giving much thought to anything, and I was focusing on military and not science. I was still an order of magnitude ahead in research points compared to the nearest AI. Yes I realize that playing on Prince is for kids but it's just to illustrate a point - without significant cheats, there's no way the AI can keep up. Which is a shame, because it's already completely braindead when it comes to strategic positioning and handling attacks of anything other than basic melee units.

I also agree that the boost seems to be too much, perhaps a 25% tech bonus instead of 50% would be more appropriate.

I think the game has real potential after a complete UI makeover and an AI pass, but right now it's just too time consuming to play, too much micromanaging and struggling to get to simple information that should be immediately accessible. Oh, and all of my games bug out around turn 250 when I attack any city, so I'm giving it a pass until they fix it. Surprised more people aren't having this problem, or that it hasn't been mentioned by "reviewers" - that might be because they haven't really played 250 turns of a game or tried to attack anyone past that point.

 

[baturinsky]

Actually, these tech bonuses are primitive enough that even AI can learn to use them easily. All that's needed is to raise the priority of building stuff that will give the bonus - and it will cover 3/4 of them.
MadMaxHellfire is right - it's casual games mechanics, it's designed around giving a lot of small tasks to player to keep him occupied without demanding much from his intelligence.

 

[Agame]

Actually, these tech bonuses are primitive enough that even AI can learn to use them easily. All that's needed is to raise the priority of building stuff that will give the bonus - and it will cover 3/4 of them.
MadMaxHellfire is right - it's casual games mechanics, it's designed around giving a lot of small tasks to player to keep him occupied without demanding much from his intelligence.

It seems the design philosophy for civ6 was, "guys we need to recruit all the kids playing Freemium games."

Gotta get them monies...

 

[kris]

I don't see how the old research system was any better in that case.

because if you want to do anything other than being bitchslapped you now MUST play how the game tells you so instead of following your own rules. double research speed is HUGE, several magnitudes bigger than any wonder in the game.

If you are "bitchslapped" in this game then you have bigger issues than any techbonuses.

 

[Snorkack]

Slow down, guys... Are you telling me, Civ now rewards planning ahead for your research?! That there are strategies that are more effective than others? This is an OUTRAGE! Please hand me my pitchfork, Montgomery.


Also calling bullshit on 'mobile game mechanic'. Spending real monies to boost research - that would be a mobile game mechanics. Tech bonuses have been part of Civ games for quite a while now. It's just that now they're an actual engaging gameplay element. Are they overpowered in their magnitude? Maybe, can't tell for sure yet. Are they fun to play with? Personally, I think yes. Do they provide opportunities that make deviating/detouring from your initial strategy a viable and interesting option? Hell yeah!

 

[ArchAngel]

Slow down, guys... Are you telling me, Civ now rewards planning ahead for your research?! That there are strategies that are more effective than others? This is an OUTRAGE! Please hand me my pitchfork, Montgomery.


Also calling bullshit on 'mobile game mechanic'. Spending real monies to boost research - that would be a mobile game mechanics. Tech bonuses have been part of Civ games for quite a while now. It's just that now they're an actual engaging gameplay element. Are they overpowered in their magnitude? Maybe, can't tell for sure yet. Are they fun to play with? Personally, I think yes. Do they provide opportunities that make deviating/detouring from your initial strategy a viable and interesting option? Hell yeah!

Main advantage of tech boosts are that culture and science are connected now. Someone focusing on culture can keep up with those focusing mostly on science.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

it's not rewarding you for planning ahead, actually it punishes you: i had several cases of eureka requirements already met but too early so they didn't count. that's why the system is crap.

 

[Jimmious]

Yeah,I don't think there is a "meeting requirements too early". I've had techs "3 steps ahead" from my current research where I had already done their eureka and it worked just fine when their turn came.

 

[cvv]

Slow down, guys... Are you telling me, Civ now rewards planning ahead for your research?! That there are strategies that are more effective than others? This is an OUTRAGE! Please hand me my pitchfork, Montgomery.

You're new to Codex kid, this is a ritual, mass hating is good for you, raises your libido and improves blood circulation.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

then it must have been a bug, because i had several techs not eureka'd despite meeting the requirements already.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Well, let's not go too far the other way, eh? Treating arcade-like cheevo boosts as "this is serious strategizing that demands planning ahead, my brian feels so good right nao" is a bit ret... overenthusiastic. Especially when, like most stuff in modern firaxis games, it's completely arbitrary and disconnected. Kill a unit with a slinger to research archery 2x faster. Legit af in a serious 4X game in 2016.

 

[cvv]

then it must have been a bug, because i had several techs not eureka'd despite meeting the requirements already.

Sounds legit.


*****


Anyway from what I've heard and seen so far it seems mechanically this is the most solid and complete Civ game ever launched. Bashing the AI is for kids and edgelords, part of playing single-player strategy games is to get over the fact your AI opponents are retarded and always will be. Plus Firaxis will surely iron out the scripts and behavioral patterns in future patches, Civ isn't an early access game so they can't adjust these things before the launch.

However I've already decided - I'll never buy or play this game. I'll never forgive them for what they have done with the artstyle and the general vibe of the IP. When I saw the first screenshots I thought maybe I could get over it in time but the more I'm watching previews and LPs the more certain I am - it's fucking disgusting.

Realism has always been Civ's main selling point for me. Sure, as George Washington, the leader of the American tribe in 4000 BC, you still need some suspension of disbelief but the characters, buildings, units, wonders, techs, events - all that has always been firmly rooted in real stuff. Realism is probably the only reason why Civilization has always been the only mainstream turn-based strategy game, even in the age of konzoles and decline - for an average dude it's easier to larp as a real leader of a real nation than emperor Bzsrskfjsk of the great insectoid space reich. So why the fuck did Firaxis veered in the direction of Disney Channel maps, cartoony units and goofy leaders is completely beyond me. All I know is they're not getting MY money.

 

[Snorkack]

Kill a unit with a slinger to research archery 2x faster. Legit af in a serious 4X game in 2016.

Don't get your problem here. That's definitely less arbitrary than , for example, being completely landlocked yet be the first one to research caravels because you just happen to beeline straight to calendar.

 

[Jimmious]

cvv I find you PoV very interesting. I completely get your point I just find it very interesting that for me Civ was the exact opposite of realism even since Colonization.
I always had it in mind as the wild/comical alternate world were obscure civilizations take over the world by killing spearmen with their tanks and stuff like that.

Realism for me is more in the direction of EU but still the results can be funny there too(after all they are games)

 

[Gerrard]

Think I'll try the Vox Populi mod for Civ5 instead. Anyone know if the claimed AI improvements are actually good?

No, but I can tell you that after playing with it for 2 hours my game now crashes while trying to load the save. 10/10 would play again.

 

[rezaf]

I kinda lost touch with the whole heureka thing at some point.
Early on, I tried hard to get all the bonies, but eventually, I found myself unable to do so.
When a tech required me to build 3 universities or something I was in a prolonged war and couldn't spare the production. When I was asked to build 3 units of some type all my cities were busy building districts or wonders. Situations like these often resulted in me saying "screw this" and just researching an unboosted tech.

In some ways, yes, this is probably the best civ at release ever, but in some other ways...
As already discussed, the UI is just so terrible, it's a league of it's own. Important information is often hard, sometimes impossible to come by. There are many quirks like how clicking the attack with city option actually "closes" the attack and require you to deselect and attack again. Or how selection the option to move your spy closes down the side menu, but if you click on a city then it opens the diplomacy screen (you need to reopen the relocate spy menu and then pick a city).
Or the phase in/ phase out I mentioned earlier when the AI initiates a conversation. Or how cycling units will sometimes put the rug under your feet and select a different unit (and then give the order to that one). The list goes on and on. In that regard, probably the WORST civ release ever.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Kill a unit with a slinger to research archery 2x faster. Legit af in a serious 4X game in 2016.

Don't get your problem here. That's definitely less arbitrary than , for example, being completely landlocked yet be the first one to research caravels because you just happen to beeline straight to calendar.

I don't really have a problem, just lol'd a bit at treating them as proof of incline. Well, ok, it's obvious it wasn't really though out that good, getting to research stuff 2x as fast with little to no investment is way too big to ignore and gamey imo. Perhaps it was another shout out to EL and its legendary deeds, but that game did it in a more thoughtful way and the rewards were actually one-time unique stuff.

 

[cvv]

cvv I find you PoV very interesting. I completely get your point I just find it very interesting that for me Civ was the exact opposite of realism even since Colonization.
I always had it in mind as the wild/comical alternate world were obscure civilizations take over the world by killing spearmen with their tanks and stuff like that.

Um, modern armies clashing with dindus throwing spears has been a VERY real and very frequent part of our history. Civilization is an alternate world only in the sense it's a videogame and not a simulation of the real world. Apart from that it has always been real.

Also I don't see where is EU more real than Civ. More complex, more dry, more serious, sure but Civilization has never been anything but real (well except for the giant robots and XCOM squads from Civ5, I guess that's where it started to go wrong, a portent of things to come).

 

[Raghar]

I don't really have a problem, just lol'd a bit at treating them as proof of incline. Well, ok, it's obvious it wasn't really though out that good, getting to research stuff 2x as fast with little to no investment is way too big to ignore and gamey imo.

Have they increased research costs?