Civilization VII - coming February 11th

[Infinitron]

 

[Hellraiser]

Not surprising coming from T2, between them being strapped for cash, GTA VI too far away from release and their recent history with release prices (Civ VI included) I would be shocked if it wasn't 70 bucks.

Still it seems the train is building up speed...



...and I'm eagerly waiting to see it crash.

 

[ArchAngel]

It is more complex and more interesting while not going overboard so it gets too much focus.

Explain how it is more complex.

It has its own arena that has non passable terrain, elevation and such. It has unit customizations and units have interesting unique abilities and are not just HP, damage and range.
Also each faction having unique units makes it much more interesting.

 

[sebas]

Mechanically I didn't mind VI all that much though the districts and dirty socks workers always felt clumsy to me. What I was hoping for in VII was some of the ideas from Old World to make their way, like turn orders which sound clumsy but end up adding an amazing layer of depth to turn-by-turn strategy.

And what they come up with is this shit?! Civ morphing, tech tree gutting, removal of workers and barbarians...jesus fucking christ!

 

[ropetight]

It is more complex and more interesting while not going overboard so it gets too much focus.

Explain how it is more complex.

It has its own arena that has non passable terrain, elevation and such. It has unit customizations and units have interesting unique abilities and are not just HP, damage and range.
Also each faction having unique units makes it much more interesting.

And reinforcements from the whole city territory, and almost endless upgrades, and heroes... it was very exciting as first, resembling weird HoMM3.
You could upgrade your units until stupid AI (that would not upgrade them properly, even when it could) would pose no threat, no matter the terrain.
Somehow, the ineptitude of AI in simpler games as HoMM3 was better hidden, but Endless Legend was The Emperor Has No Clothes after couple of rounds.

After struggle at the beggining, nothing except level/numbers matter at all, because unit/terrain tactical advantages were trumped by "progress".
We can argue that it is realistic that such wild tech advances made units obsolete fast, but we can hardly argue that it becomes tedious and boring very fast.
It is almost as if someone designed tactical combat in complete separation from the strategic gameplay and never properly tested how they meld and interact with each other, besides of great gimmick of "it is happening on the same map".

Amplitude should be thrown to tactical jail how bad combat their strategies have.
You have all that great asymetrical factions, beautiful designs and stories behind them, their beautiful ships/units and then you get draw-a-card animation (Endless Space) or turn-based Space Rangers land combat level of we-don't-give-a-fuck/it's-over-our-heads (Endless Legend).

I gave them a lot of slack because I really liked their creative and original approach to the settings and world building, but then they made Humankind, blandest 4X woke manifesto containing unforgettable failures of "nothing about your culture really matters in the end, so you can switch it like Shakira Whenever" and "you win ancient era by popularity contest on ancient Instagram".
Shameful.

 

[ArchAngel]

It is more complex and more interesting while not going overboard so it gets too much focus.

Explain how it is more complex.

It has its own arena that has non passable terrain, elevation and such. It has unit customizations and units have interesting unique abilities and are not just HP, damage and range.
Also each faction having unique units makes it much more interesting.

And reinforcements from the whole city territory, and almost endless upgrades, and heroes... it was very exciting as first, resembling weird HoMM3.
You could upgrade your units until stupid AI (that would not upgrade them properly, even when it could) would pose no threat, no matter the terrain.
Somehow, the ineptitude of AI in simpler games as HoMM3 was better hidden, but Endless Legend was The Emperor Has No Clothes after couple of rounds.

After struggle at the beggining, nothing except level/numbers matter at all, because unit/terrain tactical advantages were trumped by "progress".
We can argue that it is realistic that such wild tech advances made units obsolete fast, but we can hardly argue that it becomes tedious and boring very fast.
It is almost as if someone designed tactical combat in complete separation from the strategic gameplay and never properly tested how they meld and interact with each other, besides of great gimmick of "it is happening on the same map".

Amplitude should be thrown to tactical jail how bad combat their strategies have.
You have all that great asymetrical factions, beautiful designs and stories behind them, their beautiful ships/units and then you get draw-a-card animation (Endless Space) or turn-based Space Rangers land combat level of we-don't-give-a-fuck/it's-over-our-heads (Endless Legend).

I gave them a lot of slack because I really liked their creative and original approach to the settings and world building, but then they made Humankind, blandest 4X woke manifesto containing unforgettable failures of "nothing about your culture really matters in the end, so you can switch it like Shakira Whenever" and "you win ancient era by popularity contest on ancient Instagram".
Shameful.

It is not like AI in civ games presented any challenge later.. at least this combat in EL was fun.

 

[ropetight]

It is more complex and more interesting while not going overboard so it gets too much focus.

Explain how it is more complex.

It has its own arena that has non passable terrain, elevation and such. It has unit customizations and units have interesting unique abilities and are not just HP, damage and range.
Also each faction having unique units makes it much more interesting.

And reinforcements from the whole city territory, and almost endless upgrades, and heroes... it was very exciting as first, resembling weird HoMM3.
You could upgrade your units until stupid AI (that would not upgrade them properly, even when it could) would pose no threat, no matter the terrain.
Somehow, the ineptitude of AI in simpler games as HoMM3 was better hidden, but Endless Legend was The Emperor Has No Clothes after couple of rounds.

After struggle at the beggining, nothing except level/numbers matter at all, because unit/terrain tactical advantages were trumped by "progress".
We can argue that it is realistic that such wild tech advances made units obsolete fast, but we can hardly argue that it becomes tedious and boring very fast.
It is almost as if someone designed tactical combat in complete separation from the strategic gameplay and never properly tested how they meld and interact with each other, besides of great gimmick of "it is happening on the same map".

Amplitude should be thrown to tactical jail how bad combat their strategies have.
You have all that great asymetrical factions, beautiful designs and stories behind them, their beautiful ships/units and then you get draw-a-card animation (Endless Space) or turn-based Space Rangers land combat level of we-don't-give-a-fuck/it's-over-our-heads (Endless Legend).

I gave them a lot of slack because I really liked their creative and original approach to the settings and world building, but then they made Humankind, blandest 4X woke manifesto containing unforgettable failures of "nothing about your culture really matters in the end, so you can switch it like Shakira Whenever" and "you win ancient era by popularity contest on ancient Instagram".
Shameful.

It is not like AI in civ games presented any challenge later.. at least this combat in EL was fun.

Civ AI is a stupid cheater from the beggining from the series, and it got worse - barely bearable in the last two games.
But there is no opportunity for Civ AI to present its stupidity in such gross manner as EL.
When you put combat in the zoomed hexagon amphiteatre, expectations rise and AI is barely capable to make tactical decisions besides "that enemy is wounded, let's try to finish him"... AI uncanny valley hits harsher, you know.

I always hoped there will be EL2 to fix these bad decisions or inexperience, but then they made ES2 with cardgame animation combat (again) and Humankind, in the process they lost half of the founders and old guard (some of them made Solasta), so I'm not holding my breath.

 

[ArchAngel]

It is more complex and more interesting while not going overboard so it gets too much focus.

Explain how it is more complex.

It has its own arena that has non passable terrain, elevation and such. It has unit customizations and units have interesting unique abilities and are not just HP, damage and range.
Also each faction having unique units makes it much more interesting.

And reinforcements from the whole city territory, and almost endless upgrades, and heroes... it was very exciting as first, resembling weird HoMM3.
You could upgrade your units until stupid AI (that would not upgrade them properly, even when it could) would pose no threat, no matter the terrain.
Somehow, the ineptitude of AI in simpler games as HoMM3 was better hidden, but Endless Legend was The Emperor Has No Clothes after couple of rounds.

After struggle at the beggining, nothing except level/numbers matter at all, because unit/terrain tactical advantages were trumped by "progress".
We can argue that it is realistic that such wild tech advances made units obsolete fast, but we can hardly argue that it becomes tedious and boring very fast.
It is almost as if someone designed tactical combat in complete separation from the strategic gameplay and never properly tested how they meld and interact with each other, besides of great gimmick of "it is happening on the same map".

Amplitude should be thrown to tactical jail how bad combat their strategies have.
You have all that great asymetrical factions, beautiful designs and stories behind them, their beautiful ships/units and then you get draw-a-card animation (Endless Space) or turn-based Space Rangers land combat level of we-don't-give-a-fuck/it's-over-our-heads (Endless Legend).

I gave them a lot of slack because I really liked their creative and original approach to the settings and world building, but then they made Humankind, blandest 4X woke manifesto containing unforgettable failures of "nothing about your culture really matters in the end, so you can switch it like Shakira Whenever" and "you win ancient era by popularity contest on ancient Instagram".
Shameful.

It is not like AI in civ games presented any challenge later.. at least this combat in EL was fun.

Civ AI is a stupid cheater from the beggining from the series, and it got worse - barely bearable in the last two games.
But there is no opportunity for Civ AI to present its stupidity in such gross manner as EL.
When you put combat in the zoomed hexagon amphiteatre, expectations rise and AI is barely capable to make tactical decisions besides "that enemy is wounded, let's try to finish him"... AI uncanny valley hits harsher, you know.

I always hoped there will be EL2 to fix these bad decisions or inexperience, but then they made ES2 with cardgame animation combat (again) and Humankind, in the process they lost half of the founders and old guard (some of them made Solasta), so I'm not holding my breath.

I did notice that in EL once I upgraded my troops combat got easier but I assumed I out-teched AI just like I do in all my Civ games. I either die to AI rushing or out-tech and out greed AI. So for me in all Civ like games AI is bad as if I survived to late game it is mop up time. I've yet to see AI play the same greed game I like to do.

 

[ropetight]

It is more complex and more interesting while not going overboard so it gets too much focus.

Explain how it is more complex.

It has its own arena that has non passable terrain, elevation and such. It has unit customizations and units have interesting unique abilities and are not just HP, damage and range.
Also each faction having unique units makes it much more interesting.

And reinforcements from the whole city territory, and almost endless upgrades, and heroes... it was very exciting as first, resembling weird HoMM3.
You could upgrade your units until stupid AI (that would not upgrade them properly, even when it could) would pose no threat, no matter the terrain.
Somehow, the ineptitude of AI in simpler games as HoMM3 was better hidden, but Endless Legend was The Emperor Has No Clothes after couple of rounds.

After struggle at the beggining, nothing except level/numbers matter at all, because unit/terrain tactical advantages were trumped by "progress".
We can argue that it is realistic that such wild tech advances made units obsolete fast, but we can hardly argue that it becomes tedious and boring very fast.
It is almost as if someone designed tactical combat in complete separation from the strategic gameplay and never properly tested how they meld and interact with each other, besides of great gimmick of "it is happening on the same map".

Amplitude should be thrown to tactical jail how bad combat their strategies have.
You have all that great asymetrical factions, beautiful designs and stories behind them, their beautiful ships/units and then you get draw-a-card animation (Endless Space) or turn-based Space Rangers land combat level of we-don't-give-a-fuck/it's-over-our-heads (Endless Legend).

I gave them a lot of slack because I really liked their creative and original approach to the settings and world building, but then they made Humankind, blandest 4X woke manifesto containing unforgettable failures of "nothing about your culture really matters in the end, so you can switch it like Shakira Whenever" and "you win ancient era by popularity contest on ancient Instagram".
Shameful.

It is not like AI in civ games presented any challenge later.. at least this combat in EL was fun.

Civ AI is a stupid cheater from the beggining from the series, and it got worse - barely bearable in the last two games.
But there is no opportunity for Civ AI to present its stupidity in such gross manner as EL.
When you put combat in the zoomed hexagon amphiteatre, expectations rise and AI is barely capable to make tactical decisions besides "that enemy is wounded, let's try to finish him"... AI uncanny valley hits harsher, you know.

I always hoped there will be EL2 to fix these bad decisions or inexperience, but then they made ES2 with cardgame animation combat (again) and Humankind, in the process they lost half of the founders and old guard (some of them made Solasta), so I'm not holding my breath.

I did notice that in EL once I upgraded my troops combat got easier but I assumed I out-teched AI just like I do in all my Civ games. I either die to AI rushing or out-tech and out greed AI. So for me in all Civ like games AI is bad as if I survived to late game it is mop up time. I've yet to see AI play the same greed game I like to do.

Since modern devs don't give a fuck about AI's in their games (as opposite to AI anywhere else), we will have to wait for Google to train AI to play Civ and EL at least at intermediate amateur (king) level.

 

[RobotSquirrel]

 

[Hellraiser]

FYI in case anyone is wondering that's 48 bucks in [current year] dollars after adjusting for inflation.

 

[civac2]

Archangel:

I did notice that in EL once I upgraded my troops combat got easier but I assumed I out-teched AI just like I do in all my Civ games. I either die to AI rushing or out-tech and out greed AI. So for me in all Civ like games AI is bad as if I survived to late game it is mop up time. I've yet to see AI play the same greed game I like to do.

Civ4 has accelerating bonuses for each era. That means you have to kill at least some AIs in the midgame to gain more territory. If you are not bigger than the leading AIs you can't keep up with their tech in the lategame.

 

[Storyfag]

I have somehow missed this thread all this time. Will the game be shit?

 

[Malakal]

It is more complex and more interesting while not going overboard so it gets too much focus.

Explain how it is more complex.

It has its own arena that has non passable terrain, elevation and such. It has unit customizations and units have interesting unique abilities and are not just HP, damage and range.
Also each faction having unique units makes it much more interesting.

And reinforcements from the whole city territory, and almost endless upgrades, and heroes... it was very exciting as first, resembling weird HoMM3.
You could upgrade your units until stupid AI (that would not upgrade them properly, even when it could) would pose no threat, no matter the terrain.
Somehow, the ineptitude of AI in simpler games as HoMM3 was better hidden, but Endless Legend was The Emperor Has No Clothes after couple of rounds.

After struggle at the beggining, nothing except level/numbers matter at all, because unit/terrain tactical advantages were trumped by "progress".
We can argue that it is realistic that such wild tech advances made units obsolete fast, but we can hardly argue that it becomes tedious and boring very fast.
It is almost as if someone designed tactical combat in complete separation from the strategic gameplay and never properly tested how they meld and interact with each other, besides of great gimmick of "it is happening on the same map".

Amplitude should be thrown to tactical jail how bad combat their strategies have.
You have all that great asymetrical factions, beautiful designs and stories behind them, their beautiful ships/units and then you get draw-a-card animation (Endless Space) or turn-based Space Rangers land combat level of we-don't-give-a-fuck/it's-over-our-heads (Endless Legend).

I gave them a lot of slack because I really liked their creative and original approach to the settings and world building, but then they made Humankind, blandest 4X woke manifesto containing unforgettable failures of "nothing about your culture really matters in the end, so you can switch it like Shakira Whenever" and "you win ancient era by popularity contest on ancient Instagram".
Shameful.

It is not like AI in civ games presented any challenge later.. at least this combat in EL was fun.

It did in 4 with doomstacks. Tokugawa could capture your machine gun defended cities with waves of samurai so big the turn lagged.

It was cheating, of course, but AI at least wasnt instantly eliminated by 1UPT.

 

[ropetight]

It is more complex and more interesting while not going overboard so it gets too much focus.

Explain how it is more complex.

It has its own arena that has non passable terrain, elevation and such. It has unit customizations and units have interesting unique abilities and are not just HP, damage and range.
Also each faction having unique units makes it much more interesting.

And reinforcements from the whole city territory, and almost endless upgrades, and heroes... it was very exciting as first, resembling weird HoMM3.
You could upgrade your units until stupid AI (that would not upgrade them properly, even when it could) would pose no threat, no matter the terrain.
Somehow, the ineptitude of AI in simpler games as HoMM3 was better hidden, but Endless Legend was The Emperor Has No Clothes after couple of rounds.

After struggle at the beggining, nothing except level/numbers matter at all, because unit/terrain tactical advantages were trumped by "progress".
We can argue that it is realistic that such wild tech advances made units obsolete fast, but we can hardly argue that it becomes tedious and boring very fast.
It is almost as if someone designed tactical combat in complete separation from the strategic gameplay and never properly tested how they meld and interact with each other, besides of great gimmick of "it is happening on the same map".

Amplitude should be thrown to tactical jail how bad combat their strategies have.
You have all that great asymetrical factions, beautiful designs and stories behind them, their beautiful ships/units and then you get draw-a-card animation (Endless Space) or turn-based Space Rangers land combat level of we-don't-give-a-fuck/it's-over-our-heads (Endless Legend).

I gave them a lot of slack because I really liked their creative and original approach to the settings and world building, but then they made Humankind, blandest 4X woke manifesto containing unforgettable failures of "nothing about your culture really matters in the end, so you can switch it like Shakira Whenever" and "you win ancient era by popularity contest on ancient Instagram".
Shameful.

It is not like AI in civ games presented any challenge later.. at least this combat in EL was fun.

It did in 4 with doomstacks. Tokugawa could capture your machine gun defended cities with waves of samurai so big the turn lagged.

It was cheating, of course, but AI at least wasnt instantly eliminated by 1UPT.

Somehow I miss doomstacks.
Not fun when AI gangbangs your most experienced unit.
But combat was more tense, and harder to predict what opponent does.

 

[ArchAngel]

It is more complex and more interesting while not going overboard so it gets too much focus.

Explain how it is more complex.

It has its own arena that has non passable terrain, elevation and such. It has unit customizations and units have interesting unique abilities and are not just HP, damage and range.
Also each faction having unique units makes it much more interesting.

And reinforcements from the whole city territory, and almost endless upgrades, and heroes... it was very exciting as first, resembling weird HoMM3.
You could upgrade your units until stupid AI (that would not upgrade them properly, even when it could) would pose no threat, no matter the terrain.
Somehow, the ineptitude of AI in simpler games as HoMM3 was better hidden, but Endless Legend was The Emperor Has No Clothes after couple of rounds.

After struggle at the beggining, nothing except level/numbers matter at all, because unit/terrain tactical advantages were trumped by "progress".
We can argue that it is realistic that such wild tech advances made units obsolete fast, but we can hardly argue that it becomes tedious and boring very fast.
It is almost as if someone designed tactical combat in complete separation from the strategic gameplay and never properly tested how they meld and interact with each other, besides of great gimmick of "it is happening on the same map".

Amplitude should be thrown to tactical jail how bad combat their strategies have.
You have all that great asymetrical factions, beautiful designs and stories behind them, their beautiful ships/units and then you get draw-a-card animation (Endless Space) or turn-based Space Rangers land combat level of we-don't-give-a-fuck/it's-over-our-heads (Endless Legend).

I gave them a lot of slack because I really liked their creative and original approach to the settings and world building, but then they made Humankind, blandest 4X woke manifesto containing unforgettable failures of "nothing about your culture really matters in the end, so you can switch it like Shakira Whenever" and "you win ancient era by popularity contest on ancient Instagram".
Shameful.

It is not like AI in civ games presented any challenge later.. at least this combat in EL was fun.

It did in 4 with doomstacks. Tokugawa could capture your machine gun defended cities with waves of samurai so big the turn lagged.

It was cheating, of course, but AI at least wasnt instantly eliminated by 1UPT.

As I said, if AI rushed me I could lose and not to.that AI but overall because it stopped my greed play and forced me to waste turns building units.

 

[whydoibother]

The game already up for sale on Steam, but no listed minimal system requirements.
While I am 90% sure I can run it (its also released for consoles), I will still wait to see at least some system requirements or some benchmark tests before I pay for software that has a chance of literally not running on my machine.
The fact that they are not explicitly mentioning expansions included in deluxe edition leads me to believe they may take a break from the 2 big expansion model they used from Civ4 to Civ6. I hope not, these games are always shit on release and benefit massively from their big DLC expansions.

 

[ArchAngel]

The game already up for sale on Steam, but no listed minimal system requirements.
While I am 90% sure I can run it (its also released for consoles), I will still wait to see at least some system requirements or some benchmark tests before I pay for software that has a chance of literally not running on my machine.
The fact that they are not explicitly mentioning expansions included in deluxe edition leads me to believe they may take a break from the 2 big expansion model they used from Civ4 to Civ6. I hope not, these games are always shit on release and benefit massively from their big DLC expansions.

Why do you want to waste money on this shit? If you really want to try it, pirate it.

 

[whydoibother]

Why do you want to waste money on this shit? If you really want to try it, pirate it.

I have (eventually) paid for all the other Civilization games, both for the convenience of Steam for multiplayer and out of some lame ethics consideration.
Unless things are comically bad, I'll end up buying this one too. If not on release, then when its patched up, with a discount.

 

[Malakal]

Why do you want to waste money on this shit? If you really want to try it, pirate it.

I have (eventually) paid for all the other Civilization games, both for the convenience of Steam for multiplayer and out of some lame ethics consideration.
Unless things are comically bad, I'll end up buying this one too. If not on release, then when its patched up, with a discount.

why do you bother?

 

[Dark Souls II]

"Everything you build is multicultural now"

That's a literal quote from the receded jawline bugman who is this game's executive producer, I did not change a word.

And just a few pages back there were faggots arguing with me that I have no proof Civilization VII will be a complete dogshit pile of woke mess, well here's your proof faggots.

 

[ArchAngel]

"Everything you build is multicultural now"

That's a literal quote from the receded jawline bugman who is this game's executive producer, I did not change a word.

And just a few pages back there were faggots arguing with me that I have no proof Civilization VII will be a complete dogshit pile of woke mess, well here's your proof faggots.

During one of the interviews they asked him how did they implement climate change into the game LOL

 

[Malakal]

"Everything you build is multicultural now"

That's a literal quote from the receded jawline bugman who is this game's executive producer, I did not change a word.

And just a few pages back there were faggots arguing with me that I have no proof Civilization VII will be a complete dogshit pile of woke mess, well here's your proof faggots.

During one of the interviews they asked him how did they implement climate change into the game LOL

Been there since Civ2 no idea about 1 since I only played a little of that.

 

[Elttharion]

snip

How those leaders are chosen has evolved dramatically over the years, Beach told me. "It's way more complex and multi-layered now than it was in the beginning. In the beginning, if a designer just thought that a certain historical character was cool, they were probably making the game with it without any problem at all," he explained.

"Now, we have marketing data as to which territories are buying our game, and they want that to be a factor in it. We still have strict guidelines on gender diversity between our leaders and we never violate those. We purposely have hired two PhD historians, one with a specialty in Southeast Asian history and another one in sort of northern European history, so that they can balance each other out and give us good recommendations on things to include."

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

if everything is multicultural, what about CULTURAL borders? i demand an "i identify as a winner, i won this game" button.