CKII is released.

[Wise Emperor]

1. Invite to a court some Arab imam.
2. Wait.
3. Convert to Religion of Peace™
4. Profit.

 

[mondblut]

1. Invite to a court some Arab imam.

Dream on.

False religion -----

 

[JarlFrank]

Actually, in my current Byzantium game there was a crusade against Norway. I was like "wat" and checked the religion map.

The king of Norway had converted to Islam.
He had married a muslim wife and she somehow managed to convert him.
Epic lulz ensued.

 

[Kattze]

I think they should add naval combat (even a rudimentary one) for the republic dlc. You can't fight a maritime war with just the glorified transports known as CK2 navies.

 

[Commissar Draco]

SO what Russian pack bring to game except cool portraits and units? Always wanted to play as Rus Prince but Russias were never classic feudal states.

 

[Wise Emperor]

I think they should add naval combat (even a rudimentary one) for the republic dlc. You can't fight a maritime war with just the glorified transports known as CK2 navies.

Some posters on Paradox Forum are quite sure, that devs somewhere stated that naval combat will never be implemented in CK2.
But, hey game isn't even year old, so expect at least couple of big DLC's after Republic and who knows...

SO what Russian pack bring to game except cool portraits and units? Always wanted to play as Rus Prince but Russias were never classic feudal states.

I don't have it, but from what I red and saw on forums, there is nothing new, apart from graphical flavour and music.

 

[Mortmal]

I took it during steam sales, if only i knew , i had bought it earlier. This game is pure goodness, already spend 100 hours on it , plotting ,conquering, smashing countries with the religion of peace, assassinating too ambitious vassals , marrying my daughters to rich old farts. I dont know what makes it works, what is the subtle alchemy in some 4X that makes me want to play another turn, but at 6 am i was still playing it . Its not so easy to master , but now i am starting to do good , since i took byzantine empire i had two extra objectives, unite religion and rebuild the whole roman empire, not an easy task but finally managed it, now i am going to try to conquer the whole world, not sure if theres enough time left in the campaign to do it .
Only major flaw is the lack of naval warfare, if the ships dont fight each others, why even bother to put them in,having to micro every troops loading has no interest.

 

[mondblut]

You can't fight a maritime war with just the glorified transports known as CK2 navies.

I guess that's why there was no such thing as "maritime war" since roman times until, like, 16 century. Tying a thousand ships into the bridge across Kattegat doesn't really count.

 

[Malakal]

You can't fight a maritime war with just the glorified transports known as CK2 navies.

I guess that's why there was no such thing as "maritime war" since roman times until, like, 16 century. Tying a thousand ships into the bridge across Kattegat doesn't really count.

Yes, seriously, people asking for naval combat - it just doesnt suit the era. Not to mention that spotting another fleet without proper tools was nearly impossible at that time so fleets could search for each other in one sea province eternally.

 

[Merkwürdigliebe]

Well that multiplayer idea sort of fizzled out due to lack of organization (host mainly). I'm considering trying tunngle to see if it could be used for this purpose, it has worked out quite well with all games I've played with it so far. Any one with a copy of the game and the program installed want to try out if we can set up a game?

 

[IDtenT]

I'm available almost any time.

 

[RedScum]

Paging Trash. Just wondering if your mod works with all the recent patches & DLC's. And if so, could i have a link to kind sir?

http://www.mediafire.com/?stote70360e3t5c

There you go. Feel free to ploink that link down wherever you want. It's for the 1.07 version and copatible with the main dlc's. Think it should also work with the last patch. I'll update the mod when they release the republic dlc.

Thanks man, been without internet for 4 days now but now i can get my hands on it!

 

[Trash]

You're more than welcome. I'll update Memento Mori with the next patch and dlc and will also put the mediafire here*.

*And I'll check if it then works with my fav mods and put links to them here as well.

 

[Wise Emperor]

Rather underwhelming Republics Dev Diary #3

 

[Borelli]

People i have a technical problem with this game. The 1.05 works perfectly but when i install ANY of the newer patches and start the game the interface is invisible, what gives?

 

[Wise Emperor]

Well either try to install 1.05->1.06->1.07->1.08 or ask at Paradox forum.

 

[RedScum]

Perhaps a complete reinstall followed up by only installing the latest patch might fix it. Do you have any mods or DLC installed?

 

[Average Manatee]

1. Invite to a court some Arab imam.

Dream on.

False religion -----

Works just fine if you replace inviting the Arab with inviting his non-infidel wife, who came from your court and just married him yesterday. Bringing him along, of course. As long as they aren't Content or specially hating you/loving their new lord they will either do it as soon as you ask or require a mere 20 gold donation first. Another nice thing is that family members get a huge bonus to the chance to come back to court, meaning you can use any shitty daughter to bring in the next Saladin who has 30 in a stat at 20 years of age to be a ridiculously good councilor.

You can't fight a maritime war with just the glorified transports known as CK2 navies.

I guess that's why there was no such thing as "maritime war" since roman times until, like, 16 century. Tying a thousand ships into the bridge across Kattegat doesn't really count.

Yes, seriously, people asking for naval combat - it just doesnt suit the era. Not to mention that spotting another fleet without proper tools was nearly impossible at that time so fleets could search for each other in one sea province eternally.

Yeah, but at this point why even bother with needing fleets? It's really just a lot of busywork micromanagement if there are zero ways to actually lose the ships. If you play a coastal game (I'm fond of the Batatzes in Achaia myself), you'll spend 2 or 3 minutes on the first 3 days of every way just loading units up correctly. Might as well just have them seamless and behind the scenes at this point if there is going to be no counter to ships. Make troops able to cross water on their own and increase the upkeep by 50% when this is going on.

Also, naval transports should be slowed down a bit if the AI isn't going to use it properly. It's really overpowering to have something like 10-100x more maneuverability. Attrition needs to be added in some form as well, should not be able to throw around 50k deathstacks nearly anywhere in the world without any attrition just because they are standing on a ship.

 

[Average Manatee]

Attrition needs to be added in some form as well, should not be able to throw around 50k deathstacks nearly anywhere in the world without any attrition just because they are standing on a ship.

They used to have attrition on ships, It started at around 6k I believe. This was way to easy to circumvent though. Just break your army up and send it in 6k waves that are kept a sea zone or two apart. So all it really added was a lot more micromanagement and you could still move armies of any size around rapidly while taking no naval attrition. They went ahead and removed the naval attrition in a patch in order to get rid of needless micromanagement. You could imagine that the massive navies and the armies they transport are abstracted and are actually broken up into smaller fleets to better facilitate travel and logistics. I suppose you could make naval attrition always occur and not be dependant on the size of the army transported so choosing to use naval transport incurs the cost of attrition in order to get better strategic mobility. Of course then a person could just make their naval journeys less than a month long hops in order to avoid naval attrition. So you get another case of micromanagement beats attrition.

Actually that significantly depowers naval armies. One of the biggest points in favour of them is that while the enemy (in my case the ERE) takes over a month to gather its doomstack together my forces are ready in a week to drop their 50k on scattered groups of 10-15k and eat away 3/4ths of their strength before the ERE is prepared. If you were forced to send things in 6k chunks you would face much more expensive naval landings trying to only land 6k units every few weeks against the 10k-15k stacks. That said, I agree it's an absolute PITA.

Naval attrition would probably also further complicate the AIs use of Navies and you are definitely right about the AI not taking advantage of navies. That has been a reoccurring problem in almost every Paradox title though. It's been a reoccurring problem in almost every Total War title as well for that matter. I guess there is just something hard about naval transport AI. Probably has to do with how every coastal location has every other coastal location as a potential destination. So I don't know if we are gonna get competent naval transport AIs anytime soon. It might just have to remain one of those things that is an advantage for the player(like all features introduced in games that AIs can't figure out how to use properly).

Which is why I think it would be a good ideas to simply let land units travel across the sea and abstract out the navy. The biggest problem with designing AI for this is the somewhat complex planning ahead needed to get the navy and army to work in tandem. Removing the navy from the equation and treating sea provinces the same as land provinces with regards to movement (adding on attrition/upkeep/combat modifiers as needed) basically solves the problem. At this point the mechanic doesn't add anything to the game, and it's one that the AI can't use and the player doesn't want to use except for the fact that it lets you beat an AI that can't use it.

I don't think that getting rid of navies and abstracting naval transport is the solution though. The way it works now, the more coastal holdings a nation/power has the better their sea transport capacity. Landlocked folks are entirely dependent on mercenaries for naval transport. If navies are abstracted away the naval capacity of different countries wouldn't be taken into account. I suppose they could base the gold cost/upkeep increase on the number of coastal holdings you have or something like that but I think the current system does a better job of accomplishing that and communicating it to the player.

Well, the mercs are basically an upkeep system (and a fucking expensive one at that, by the time you can afford to blow 75 gold a month to transport 10k troops the game should be considered "won"). That's not a bad idea, but I think attrition would be better to balance this out. Say, every coastal province raises the supply limit for all water provinces by 250 troops? I think that sounds about right.

Paradox games communicating things to the player? . But seriously, simply adding a tooltip when you hover over the supply limit statistic for coastal provinces would be par for the course.

Wasn't one of the patches/DLCs supposed to have armies raised appear in larger chunks instead of spread all around every county? That should help reduce the micromanagement of gathering up your armies before war. I suppose that wouldn't do anything for coastal counties not connected to the rest of your territory though.

Only inasmuch as that vassals that have other vassals raise their army all in one chunk (which merely saves you the need to press the button to combine armies, once in a while). Doesn't really do anything unless you perform a semi-exploit to make all vassals with vassals have their main holding in a central location so that their troops across the map appear magically next to your capital when you summon them.

One game whenever I raised my son's/daughter's levy it spawned as a 100k uber-group on the province next to my capital. I considered it the nuclear option to be spawned ontop of any invading army, then despawned before attrition kicked it. Or shuttled into a fleet to quickly do the same to another province, but my child's income went to several negative hundred a month from it being raised so I didn't want to prolong this. It's funny how every time you play you find new ridiculously funny exploits to perform. (How my children got 100k-sized levies is another amusing exploit by the way...)

 

[Wise Emperor]

In first CK armies where travelling by sea paying for transport that materialized from thin air. It wasn't actually fun and for the sake of gameplay I think the current system is optimal. And don't forget that attrition still happens when army is loaded on a docked ship.

Without that gamey system(no attrition), there wouldn't be any viable strategy to destroy hordes doomstacks.

 

[Average Manatee]

I've never actually seen the hordes since I've always started my games at the beginning, but no-attrition doomstacks walking around from hordes should probably be changed in the first place as it sounds like a blight upon every mechanic in the game. Give them double supply limit or whatever, but 100k stacks should not be marching or sailing around anywhere in the game, whether by player or AI.

 

[mondblut]

And don't forget that attrition still happens when army is loaded on a docked ship.

Not really. I spent a couple of months keeping a 100k retinue loaded on a docked fleet in a province that just turned nahuatl, in anticipation of asstec landing (only to find out it misfired because the game goes all the way back from 1.04, and somebody had to be given e_mexikha via console first in order to enable the stupid invasion), and it did not suffer attrition. Any disembarked troops in the same province, however, no matter how few, did suffer full attrition as if the entire army was landed. Moreover, reloading a saved game caused embarked docked army to disembark. It cost me about 10k in losses to notice Eventually I gave up and sent them sailing outside.

 

[Wise Emperor]

I had in my mind that other/rest of the doomstack NOT embarked on the ship suffers attrition, even if there is only 1000 of them. My fault.

 

[Average Manatee]

Actually that significantly depowers naval armies. One of the biggest points in favour of them is that while the enemy (in my case the ERE) takes over a month to gather its doomstack together my forces are ready in a week to drop their 50k on scattered groups of 10-15k and eat away 3/4ths of their strength before the ERE is prepared. If you were forced to send things in 6k chunks you would face much more expensive naval landings trying to only land 6k units every few weeks against the 10k-15k stacks. That said, I agree it's an absolute PITA.

You didn't have to wait weeks between waves. If you landed in several counties and assaulted to gain a foothold quickly(so you troops directly in the port) it took very little time to get even a very large army landed with very few losses(whether due to attrition or assaulting). Naval attrition sounds like a good idea it is just far to easy to micromanage your way around it. That is why they got rid of it.

No, I'm not talking about landing and assaulting. I'm talking about easily smashing an army 3x your size after 2 weeks of declaring war because you can massively overpower local, fragmented armies before the AI forms a doomstack (and as far as I'm concerned, doomstack isn't neccesarily 100k, it's any huge stack that would hurt your troops). As a coastal power you can fight 3 to 1, 4 to 1, 5 to 1 odds easily and come out with almost no losses this way. We're talking straight up landing your entire army on 1/10 of the enemy's army, killing it in 5 days or so, getting back on the boat and going off to snipe another. That's the biggest exploit of naval armies, and one that attrition at sea would fix.

Which is why I think it would be a good ideas to simply let land units travel across the sea and abstract out the navy. The biggest problem with designing AI for this is the somewhat complex planning ahead needed to get the navy and army to work in tandem. Removing the navy from the equation and treating sea provinces the same as land provinces with regards to movement (adding on attrition/upkeep/combat modifiers as needed) basically solves the problem. At this point the mechanic doesn't add anything to the game, and it's one that the AI can't use and the player doesn't want to use except for the fact that it lets you beat an AI that can't use it.

...

Well, the mercs are basically an upkeep system (and a fucking expensive one at that, by the time you can afford to blow 75 gold a month to transport 10k troops the game should be considered "won"). That's not a bad idea, but I think attrition would be better to balance this out. Say, every coastal province raises the supply limit for all water provinces by 250 troops? I think that sounds about right.

Paradox games communicating things to the player? . But seriously, simply adding a tooltip when you hover over the supply limit statistic for coastal provinces would be par for the course.

The current system serves as a hard limit. There is a maximum you are able to move based on your coastal holdings, or how many overpriced(and limited in quantity) mercs with ships you can afford. So a largely landlocked power will just not be able to move many(possibly none) troops by ship, no matter how rich and powerful they are. Not just that but it is able to take into account things like vassal relationships, recently conquered province penalties, how developed the holdings are, and if naval levies have recently been depleted. Abstracting away the ships will lose most of that. And it is communicated very well to the player how better/more coastal holdings = more naval levies = more naval transport capacity. It doesn't use a hidden formula to calculate what kind of increased upkeep/attrition penalties you will take and is so intuitive it doesn't need even a tooltip to communicate the concept.

Except it also limits the AI to never using ships effectively, which kills the game for all non-landlocked nations.

The exploits will always exist in Paradox title.

Heh, certainly. That was just a funny side-comment on what the system does. It's fun to find exploits but after using them once I'm done. The problem comes in when clearly intended mechanics are essentially an exploit because the AI is unable to use them properly and are vastly underpowered because of it.

If I was in charge I would change the way the navies work in CK2 like this.

-Reduce the size of naval levies(or the number of troops transported per ship). Reduce it to between a quarter and half of what it is right now, maybe even reduce it a little more if that is still too much. That way the only people that will be able to move their entire realms levies in one go are ones that are made up almost entirely of coastal provinces with well developed cities. Everyone else will have to contend with only being able to transport a portion of their armies by boat.

That makes micromanagement worse. The loading and unloading is the PITA of the ship micromanagement when it needs to be done constantly. Granted, it reduces the power of exploits, but not in a good way.

-Introduce time based naval attrition. That is so you can't just have armies sitting out in the water or in the port not having to worry about attrition. You should get a month or two free(should be long enough for most journeys) but after that it starts ramping up quickly.

Would be good, fix a lot of weirdness (Sicily sailing up to Norway? Yeah totally legit). I would say that the attrition should depend on the troop/ship ratio. i.e., 100% loaded = 1 or 2 months before attrition, 10% loaded = a year or more. The problem if that there is also constant loading/unloading of troops in the tactic/exploit I mentioned above. IIRC EU3 had both distance from friendly province and time at sea penalties, no reason CK2 couldn't copy those.

-Have how long it takes armies to embark and disembark be effected by how large the army is. Larger armies take longer to load on boats and longer to disembark. Of course you would have to make sure that that all the armies embarking/disembarking in a county/sea zone are totaled for the purpose of determining how long it takes.

Don't really like this. Doesn't make much sense logically. Better just to make the disembark take a longer time, independent of army size. It's like, what, 3 days? Enemy armies in the province you are moving into should always have a chance to get away, but nothing can react to that. Moving from sea to land should take about as much time as a land to land movement.

 

[Borelli]

OK full reinstall fixed it so now i can play the game but i have another problem. It lags, and i am not talking about framerate issues, the game runs smoothly for 30 in-game days then it takes full 2 seconds to pass one in-game day (at fastest speed). Changing the resolution to lowest doesn't work. How to fix this?