Grand Strategy Crusader Kings III

[Zariusz]

That language addon looks interesting, something so obvious but absent both in CK2 and CK3.

 

[Average Manatee]

CRUSADER KINGS 3: ROYAL COURT HANDS-OFF PREVIEW - THRONE ROOM, GRANDEUR, CULTURE SYSTEM REWORK

They were kind of inconsistent in CK2, the game in general got harder (you get way less troops from vassals and factions/revolts are way stronger and more likely)

No not really. Unless you're not using Retinues, which made raising levies completely pointless in most cases.

CK3 definitely gives way too many levies (which are useless compared to Space Knight spam) but at least caps your MAA. Whereas CK2 Retinue doomstacks were just stupid OP especially if you know the meta.

CK2 retinue only armies are lategame (in terms of tech, even if you rush it its still midgame) and only for big empires with a lot of money to burn. It used to be that large Kingdoms or Empires started the game with 4x or more levies than they do now, which made factions completely ignorable.

CK3 MAA is way, way more overpowered than CK2 retinue due to how CK3 buildings apply global MAA bonuses and MAA is only limited by tech. CK3 dukes can produce superhuman MAA armies that can stackwipe entire empires of levies. CK2 retinue are essentially unusable until you have multiple kingdoms worth of wealth and retinue cap.

It also used to be that stats and traits were a lot more powerful in CK2, the +opinion of all virtue traits was halved across the board at some point and powerful stats like stewardship used to be vastly stronger, with genius min-maxed stewardship emperors having a demesne of 20-25 vs. the 12 or so they can have now (and this was before the centralization law that adds up to +4). I think the chance of inheriting Genius and other good genetic traits was similarly nerfed around the same time. So genius rulers with good traits were both massively stronger and much easier to get previously.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

On the one hand I appreciate that the expansion appears to be generic and (Relatively) universal. On the other hand, those back of the box bullet points don't sound that thrilling on paper. Fingers crossed I guess.

 

[LizardWizard]

CK2 retinue only armies are lategame

lol nope

CK3 MAA is way, way more overpowered than CK2 retinue due to how CK3 buildings apply global MAA bonuses and MAA is only limited by tech.

CK2 retinue are essentially unusable until you have multiple kingdoms worth of wealth and retinue cap.

Exactly, MAA is capped by tech, not size. Which counters your claim 'CK2 becomes harder'. MAA bonuses were already nerfed to only apply to direct demesne holdings. You claim lategame, which is curious. You could easily have a Retinue doomstack hundreds of years before what I would consider 'lategame'. Acquiring a Kingdom or two is completely trivial in CK2.

Both games are a joke difficulty-wise though.

 

[Average Manatee]

Exactly, MAA is capped by tech, not size. Which counters your claim 'CK2 becomes harder'. MAA bonuses were already nerfed to only apply to direct demesne holdings. You claim lategame, which is curious. You could easily have a Retinue doomstack hundreds of years before what I would consider 'lategame'. Acquiring a Kingdom or two is completely trivial in CK2.

Both games are a joke difficulty-wise though.

Lategame = King/Emperor rank stage, at least a hundred years in with a maxed size demesne that is well upgraded. Don't think I've ever played more than 200 or so years in a CK2 game.

CK3 is completely trivial from the start. MAA are mad overpowered. I'm pretty sure they always applied bonuses only from direct demesne holdings? Just those are enough to make basic MAA to be worth 10 or 20x their number in levies. To say nothing of how overpowered the siege MAA are. Siege MAA are more powerful than fighting MAA, you win wars incredibly quickly just by outsieging your enemy.

The problem of capping MAA by tech rather than size/wealth is that you can have hugely powerful MAA armies that can beat anything on the map regardless of whether you are a duke or the emperor of the restored roman empire. What's even the point of expanding past the duchy stage in CK3? You get only marginally more/stronger MAA. Maybe the Roman Emperor's MAA is 20% stronger and 20% larger than it would be if he was just duke of Bohemia. That takes away basically any incentive to actually play the game except as a meme genetics/incestual breeding simulator.

Also it needs to be said that even starting as an OPM count that CK3 is still way easier due to the far lower cost of mercs and just how much money you can easily generate through ransom/blackmail/etc.

 

[karoliner]

They're actually making Victoria 3...

 

[Catacombs]

How will you rule when your subjects come to you with their complaints? Building the grandest court in the world may please your vassals and attract interesting people, but it also gives your complaining courtiers a place to find you. Make decisions that will smooth the troubled waters in your kingdom, while impressing visitors with your collection of masterpieces and relics.

The Royal Court expansion to Crusader Kings III adds new ways to interact with the characters in your kingdom or empire, as well as major changes to the cultural system of the game, adding greater dynamism and historical fluidity.

Features of Crusader Kings III: Royal Court include

• Throne Room
  A visual representation of your royal court will reflect all the accumulated majesty and prestige of your dynasty.
• Hold Court
  Interact with vassals and courtiers as they come to you with their problems, seeking a royal judgment.
• Grandeur
  Increase the quality of life at your court with fancier trappings and better food, all the better to impress your rivals and attract higher quality guests.
• Inspired People
  Talented artists, craftspeople and thinkers can work on new projects, adding treasures and artifacts to your court.
• Hybrid Cultures
  Make the most of a multicultural realm, developing a new way of life that is specifically adapted to your population and geography.
• Cultural Divergence
  Split from your traditional culture, adapting it into something new that better fits your aspirations.

This crap should've been in the base game.

 

[LizardWizard]

Lategame = King/Emperor rank stage, at least a hundred years in with a maxed size demesne that is well upgraded.

It doesn't take a 100 years to becomes King/Emp with an unbeatable Retinue.

CK3 is completely trivial from the start.

So is CK2

I'm pretty sure they always applied bonuses only from direct demesne holdings?

Uhh, no? They were way more broken at release, since the MAA boni applied to everything not directly held by you. Outremer Light Cav spam was the most broken thing ever.

Just those are enough to make basic MAA to be worth 10 or 20x their number in levies. To say nothing of how overpowered the siege MAA are. Siege MAA are more powerful than fighting MAA, you win wars incredibly quickly just by outsieging your enemy.

Siege MAA would be filtered by Vassal Knight spam. Nobody is claiming the paradox AI competent

The problem of capping MAA by tech rather than size/wealth is that you can have hugely powerful MAA armies that can beat anything on the map regardless of whether you are a duke or the emperor

Your logic also applies to CK2 retinue, once you start stacking tech/wonder bonuses.

What's even the point of expanding past the duchy stage in CK3? You get only marginally more/stronger MAA.

Nope. You get better renown gain for even better shit. Compared to CK2, where you get well, nothing. Just paint more map.

 

[Zariusz]

They're actually making Victoria 3...

Yes, we already have Vicky 3 thread with over 70 replies

 

[vonAchdorf]

I hope that Throne Room and Hold Court don't become busy work.

 

[Theodora]

I bought it on sale and I paid less than 15€ what the fuck are you even rambling about

Way too many people come to Paradox threads to just be angry in the most ill-informed way possible. Don't see the appeal personally.

 

[Larianshill]

I don't really get what cultures bring to the table. Say, you're a viking lord. Your Asatru faith makes certain character traits virtuous and desirable (like Vengeful), while others (Craven) not so much. It also enables blots and makes the vikings more warlike. But what would Norse culture define about you?

 

[IDtenT]

I don't really get what cultures bring to the table. Say, you're a viking lord. Your Asatru faith makes certain character traits virtuous and desirable (like Vengeful), while others (Craven) not so much. It also enables blots and makes the vikings more warlike. But what would Norse culture define about you?

Nothing prevents them from taking from religion and adding to culture. It sounds like free patch stuff, so shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Zariusz]

I don't really get what cultures bring to the table. Say, you're a viking lord. Your Asatru faith makes certain character traits virtuous and desirable (like Vengeful), while others (Craven) not so much. It also enables blots and makes the vikings more warlike. But what would Norse culture define about you?

Probably something with larping.

 

[vonAchdorf]

I don't really get what cultures bring to the table. Say, you're a viking lord. Your Asatru faith makes certain character traits virtuous and desirable (like Vengeful), while others (Craven) not so much. It also enables blots and makes the vikings more warlike. But what would Norse culture define about you?

Nothing prevents them from taking from religion and adding to culture. It sounds like free patch stuff, so shouldn't be a problem.

Aren't some abilities (like raiding?) tied to the culture, not religion (at least in CK2)?

 

[NJClaw]

Honestly, I think they don't do enough WITH culture. It would be interesting to see, for example, combat terrain bonuses relating to culture - for example, mountain peoples like the Basque, Asturians and the inhabitants of the Caucasus should be better at fighting at mountains and hills, while Tuaregs and Arabs should have a bonuses to fighting in deserts.

The mechanics to do that are already in the game: different cultures have access to different men-at-arms with their specific terrain bonuses.

 

[Kem0sabe]

The easy CB and not needing navies to invade over sea were the two biggest factors for me to stop playing the game. It's just too easy to paint the map.

 

[Zariusz]

Someone tried to recreate Ck2 trade roads
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2493459927&searchtext=
I wish that someone tried to mod ships back

 

[Theodora]

New DD on the royal court mechanic: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...nt=post&utm_campaign=crki3_ck_20210525_for_dd

Spoiler

Greetings!



Welcome to the first Dev Diary for the Royal Court expansion! As we mentioned in a previous DD, we’ll go back to Azure patch DD’s for a few weeks after this one. But do not fear, there will be some more Royal Court DD’s before the summer holidays - and when we’re back from holidays we’ll have many, many Royal Court diaries for you!



It’s really hard to pick a topic for where to start, but we decided upon a dive into the namesake feature of the expansion - the Royal Court itself, your seat of royal majesty and power! The Royal Court consists of many features, all collected within a 3D scene that we call the Throne Room.



Here’s an early Work in Progress screenshot of the throne room - do note that it’s a very early version, but we just can't wait to show you what we have been working on!

[Image: An early WIP western-style Throne Room, not indicative of final quality]



Now, there are many things that go into the Royal Court itself. It interacts with numerous new features that’ll come with the expansion - we won’t go into detail on all of them today, if we did this DD would become much too long!



It's worth noting that this isn’t just a graphical feature; while we admit the importance of immersion, we don't want any features to feel tacked-on or superfluous. The Throne Room is there to show what’s happening; what artifacts you’ve collected, which courtiers are having a fight, etc. This allows us to place your character in a scene together with others, showing that you’re actually present in the same world! We’re trying to bridge the gap between your character and the map, all while representing a side of medieval history we’ve never previously explored in detail - the importance for a ruler to show their power, their grandeur, to their subjects and peers.



Every Feudal/Clan King and Emperor has a Royal Court. Tribal Rulers do not have one, as this feature primarily models the formality and ceremony surrounding the court, as well as the need for spending Gold, while Tribal rulers use Prestige as their main resource. If a ruler is demoted to a lower rank (through war, election, or just sheer bad luck) their Royal Court and everything therein will either stay dormant until you regain your lost status, or follow the character who now rules in your stead.



Grandeur

The key concept that enables this is called Grandeur - a measurement of your standing in the eyes of your peers. While it’s measured on a scale from 0-100, it’s not necessarily a simple system. Increasing your grandeur will lead to direct political benefits, such as increased opinions, marriage acceptance, etc. It will also unlock new Council Jobs, such as being able to peacefully demand De Jure land with the ‘Convince De Jure Territory’ job, or gain Knight Effectiveness while also decreasing enemy Scheme Success Chance with the ‘Manage Royal Guards’ job. These effects motivate you to aim for a high level of Grandeur, but naturally comes at a monetary cost. How much are you willing to spend on artifacts, amenities, or on positions within your court? You have to balance your political needs with your temporal ones, such as warfare or development. Sacrificing your grandeur entirely will cause instabilities both internal and external.



Grandeur is not really a resource, and is not actively ‘spent’ - unlike something like Prestige. It works on a much slower timescale, and is something you must balance and work towards increasing over a longer period of time. Though there are of course choices in events that make Grandeur increase or decrease, with various trade-offs.



Grandeur Effects

As mentioned in the previous section, Grandeur has several different effects and modifiers. It is divided into 10 separate levels with their own effects. For example, the very first level of Grandeur unlocks the ability to Hold Court - which is a crucial component in achieving the higher Grandeur levels. The second level unlocks a Council Task called ‘Bestow Royal Favor’, which is a powerful single-target task that increases a vassal’s opinion of you while granting them, and you, prestige.



One of the most significant effects of Grandeur is its effect on attraction of Inspired characters - the higher your Grandeur is compared to that of your neighbors, the likelier you are to have these creative travelers visit your court first, giving you an opportunity for patronage (more on Inspirations in a future DD).



Some of these levels will give courtiers who stay within it a flavorful trait, which will increase their skills and attributes based on the type of court they’re staying at. A particularly grand court might even see a more powerful trait appear, making such characters excellent for various jobs and Court Positions (more on Court Positions in a later DD).



Several Grandeur levels have effects and modifiers based on your Court Type - a type of flavorful perk for your court. Depending on your cultural Ethos you’ll get access to a few different types, such as a Diplomatic or Warlike Court. All royal courts have a type, and among other things it affects the type of trait that courtiers get (see previous paragraph). The bonuses granted from these types are varied and aim to enhance a certain style of play. The AI will tend to go for the Court Type most reflective of their Cultural Ethos and situation - for example, Indian Kings will often tend to want a Scholarly Court since many Indian cultures have a spiritual Ethos.



As an example, having a Diplomatic Court Type will grant you bonuses to Vassalization acceptance, tyranny gain, opinion, and potentially even unlock a Personal Scheme slot. A Warlike Court Type might instead see bonuses to MaA counter efficiency, knight efficiency, and the maximum size of MaA regiments. As not all cultures can access all Court Types, this is another reason to pursue Hybridization or Divergence (more on that in a later DD).



How Grandeur is Gained

Grandeur is divided in two; baseline, and direct gain. The baseline decides the ‘trend’, with you passively (and slowly) either gaining or losing grandeur over time, until the baseline is met. The baseline is affected by many things; what Court Artifacts you have, what Court Positions you have filled, etc (more on Court Artifacts in a later DD). The rate of grandeur change can be modified by many things, such as Cultural Ethoses or Traditions, but is as a rule of thumb slow. It takes time for word of your glory to spread, after all!



The most simple way to increase your Grandeur baseline is by investing in Amenities. Now, Amenities are simple and straightforward; but they’re still central to the concept of having a grand court! There are four different types; Lodgings, Food, Clothing and Servants. There are four levels to each, with each progressive level costing more gold to maintain, but giving more Grandeur baseline. They all come with a selection of flavor effects, for example; spending on food will slightly increase the disease resistance of your courtiers, but higher levels might also cause them to gain weight! Spending on clothes will increase their prestige, and will even cause them to wear fancier clothes at higher levels of expenditure (commoners will wear low nobility clothes, and so on). If your court is lacking in artifacts, spending on Amenities is the way to go.



Worth noting is that the cost of amenities is relative to your size and income; a small realm won’t have to pay as much as a prosperous one - the intent here is to allow smaller kingdoms and empires to ‘punch above their weight’ diplomatically, making choosing between expansion and consolidation a more relevant matter.



Reaching your baseline might take a long time, unless you decide to take action in order to speed it up - to gain grandeur fast, you need to Hold Court! Performing this decision invites your vassals and subjects to bring their issues, requests, and questions before you. The mere act of Holding Court will give you a one-time boost to your Grandeur, but the opportunities within the activity itself might give you opportunities to increase it further (or you could decide to lose grandeur for some temporal gain that is just too good to pass up!). The issues brought forth when Holding Court are many and varied, with many of them reacting to the state of your realm (more on Hold Court in a later DD).



Grandeur Expectations

Now, Grandeur isn’t only about reaching the level that gives the effect you desire, it’s also about managing expectations!



Depending on a number of factors, such as your tier or the size of your realm, you will have a certain expectation put upon your Royal Court. This expectation is a double-edged sword - if your grandeur is below expectations you’ll suffer increasing diplomatic penalties as people lose respect, while if it’s exceeded you might see powerful diplomatic bonuses.



These are scaled based on how powerful you are - a rather small Kingdom that undershoots its expectations won’t be hit particularly hard, while a massive empire such as the Holy Roman Empire or Byzantium will be punished much harder if they fail to live up to the expectations put upon them.



The effects of not living up to your expectations are many; reduced prestige, renown, and a hefty hit to opinion with both foreign rulers, courtiers and vassals. A large realm might easily find itself facing significant unrest unless its ruler starts spending on grandeur! On the other hand, a small kingdom that vastly exceeds the expectations put upon it might see significant bonuses to its diplomatic power, as well as renown and other bonuses.



Court Events

Now, the Royal Court isn’t all about Grandeur, of course. Another important role it holds is to show that there’s life in your court! This is done through Court Events; happenings contained within the court, taking place between those who live therein.



This new type of event uses the throne room as its backdrop, transforming the entire throne room into an event when they happen. Unlike normal events, this type of event is non-interruptive - you get notified that something is happening, whereby you can go into your Royal Court, inspect the scene, find whoever is involved, and trigger the event yourself. Usually these events are some sort of drama happening between your courtiers, which you can choose to simply ignore if you feel like you have more important matters to attend to.



These events come in many different flavors, mostly focusing on how it is to live in the court.



Some examples of court events that are being worked on currently include courtiers causing you embarrassment through their drinking or poor manners, or getting into arguments with your architect. Others involve things like rumors spreading about your predecessor on the throne, or popular and unflattering songs about you spreading within the court itself.

Court events might also be things like foreign ambassadors trying to uncover your secrets or devout courtiers shaming you and your court for your frivolous living.



---



Now, of course there’s more that goes into the Royal Court, but we’ll save going into details regarding Court Artifacts, the UI and graphical looks of the Throne Rooms, Court Positions and so on for future DevDiaries! Of course, this expansion isn’t all about the Royal Court; before the summer break starts you’ll get to read about some of the other features coming with the expansion and patch.



That’s all for now!

They're really pivoting CK to be as much an RPG as a grand strategy title, huh.

 

[TheEntitledOne]

Sims 3 with swords

 

[fantadomat]

Sims 3 with swords

Actually....sims 3 is more entertaining than ck3. At least you get to make yourself a sex dungeon and build a house.

 

[Average Manatee]

Sims 3 with swords

Actually....sims 3 is more entertaining than ck3. At least you get to make yourself a sex dungeon and build a house.

Pretty sure there's mods for that on the codex's favourite modding site.

 

[TheEntitledOne]

This game is something else. I made an uberviking with hawt chaste shieldmaiden wife.
Then I find that she is cheating on me.
With a woman.
Herself.

 

[BrotherFrank]

Sims 3 with swords

I like the direction of this dlc, I expect there won't be that many events at launch but this is where modders come in to pick up the slack once the skeleton of a cool feature is set up.
Wouldn't mind something similar for councils.

 

[Delterius]

This game is something else. I made an uberviking with hawt chaste shieldmaiden wife.
Then I find that she is cheating on me.
With a woman.
Herself.

you were supposed to knock, man