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Cyberpunk 2077 Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

DalekFlay

Arcane
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Not really sure where did you get that idea, but now I have a feeling that you have no clue what immersive sim is.

It's a malleable term with different people focusing on different aspects, but it's my understanding of what it generally means that causes me to separate the original Deus Ex and Human Revolution as different "levels" of it. My point was, you're not going to have Deus Ex's level of options and emergent gameplay in a modern AAA open world game, but Human Revolution's level is much more feasible. So we... agree, I guess? You can see a very Human Revolution style system in the demos, where you have say a warehouse and you need to get to point A, and you can get there through planned routes via combat, stealth or hacking.

DalekFlay So it was my fault expecting quality RPG and believing to publicly made promises by CDPR in time where amount of trannies per quest is hallmark of good RPG design in eyes of media and AAA devs who slurp any poison that comes from twitter's ass?

I mean, yeah kinda. People set themselves up for disappointment and rage when they expect the world to be different than it's obviously going to be. We're in a time of great incline because of indie games that cater to us like Pathfinder and Gloomwood, but you can't expect AAA games advertised on MTV to be loyal to 70's pen and paper RPGs, no matter what brief PR statements you might read. It's like Lyric Suite thinking the zoomers will ignite a Christian revolution to smite the non-believers... temper your expectations.
 

Semiurge

Cipher
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Apr 11, 2020
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7,703
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Asp Hole
I didn't expect a 1:1 adaptation, I'm still disappointed with the direction they've gone in though.
Starting with "We want to make an ambitious RPG that's an adaptation of a tabletop setting" and looking at what it is now is frustrating, because it feels like a rerun of Dragon Age 2 era Bioware, just instead of developers outright saying stupid shit like "We want the Call of Duty audience." and that they don't even like how RPGs play, we're seeing it with the decisions they keep making.

That they bit off more than they could chew is as depressing as the possibility that they decided that a deep RPG wasn't worth it when massive early development days hype (thats slowly deflated as more is revealed of the end product) and pandering to all target segments will suffice and make them rich(er).

Nobody has the right talent or experience anymore. Innovation in the industry is fucking dead.

The former innovators (Meier, Molyneux, Miyamoto) are either boomers or gen-x'ers :negative:

Cyberpunk 2077 being a video game adaptation of Cyberpunk 2020 (and therefore not 1:1 translation) was to be expected. That's not the problem. Not sure why people keep bringing up this.

The problem is they keep shedding tabletop elements all the time over time, and for bullshit reasons. Why you can't develop cyberpsychosis (or even some adverse effects)? Not because tabletop elements aren't compatibile with it, but because they don't want player to, because of the story. Same goes for forcing implants on the player. I am of the opinion that this could easily became an achievement - you know, The Meatbag, style one - and 95% of people would still pack enhancements on themselves on their first/second run, because enhancements are cool. Some people would even have to balance the cyberpsychosis aspect. But no, you can't have it. Period.

Strong story and freedom of play are a bit mutually exclusive.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,429
Strong story and freedom of play are a bit mutually exclusive.
Are they?

There are games that focus very heavily on the story elements (aka choices), but in other games the story elements are largely on a separate layer from the basic gameplay. Usually you need to reach a fixed spot or a certain character in order to trigger them. At this point the only limit is "Can you reach it?" (open the vent, climb the wall, repair the elevator, etc.), but HOW you do it rarely has anything to do with the story itself as such (unless done through some pre-planned "Decision time!" dialogue boxes). So if the story is contained to "narrative points", then there is no reason why players shouldn't have the freedom to play outside of it.
 

Avarize

Magister
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Nov 17, 2019
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Handmaid's Tale
DalekFlay So it was my fault expecting quality RPG and believing to publicly made promises by CDPR in time where amount of trannies per quest is hallmark of good RPG design in eyes of media and AAA devs who slurp any poison that comes from twitter's ass?

Ok, I agree. It was foolish ever expecting anything from CDPR. Their Morrowind was Witcher 1, their Skyrim was Witcher 3. We know what shit comes next. FUCK! I so much fucking hate modernity
Witcher 2 was their best game.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
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Witcher 1 was their best game.

I like Witcher 1, don't get me wrong. I recently replayed it and it was much better than I remembered. However the combat still sucks (sorry JDR13 ) and it can get pretty drawn out and repetitive, especially around the middle. Witcher 2's setup just works much better for me, with hub style areas that are richly designed and combat that while nothing special is at least competent. The story is better in 2 as well. I do like both though.

Witcher 3 annoyed the shit out of me with its open world checklist design, but maybe I just wasn't in the mood for it since I can enjoy those games sometimes. Maybe I'll love it on round 2 someday. Still, give me proper area design like the first two games any day over copy and paste "MASSIVE OPEN WORLD!!11!!!1!!" bullshit.
 

Latelistener

Arcane
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
2,625
It's a malleable term with different people focusing on different aspects, but it's my understanding of what it generally means that causes me to separate the original Deus Ex and Human Revolution as different "levels" of it. My point was, you're not going to have Deus Ex's level of options and emergent gameplay in a modern AAA open world game, but Human Revolution's level is much more feasible. So we... agree, I guess? You can see a very Human Revolution style system in the demos, where you have say a warehouse and you need to get to point A, and you can get there through planned routes via combat, stealth or hacking.
We agree that we won't have Deus Ex and we agree that we can expect some part of Human Revolution in this game, but I disagree that they are different levels of one thing. In my opinion they are different entities.

I also gave an example of a modern open world game that does emergent gameplay very well (I can think of other games too). It's just that CDP was never into that.
 

Jenkem

その目、だれの目?
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Vatnik
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An oasis of love and friendship.
Make the Codex Great Again! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I helped put crap in Monomyth
the "gameplay" demonstration will start with a cutscene before moving into generic dialogue choices. then there will be shooty shooty bang bang. then they will talk about all the choices you can make and replay the same mission stealthy wealthy. both will have the same outcome. the gaming press will hail it as revolutionary and very spectacular.
 

mk0

Learned
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
113
the "gameplay" demonstration will be start with a cutscenes. before moving into generic dialogue choices. then there will be shooty shooty bang bang. then they will talk about all the choices you can make and replay the same mission stealthy wealthy. both will have the same outcome. the gaming press will hail it as revolutionary and very spectacular.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
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Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
the "gameplay" demonstration will start with a cutscene before moving into generic dialogue choices. then there will be shooty shooty bang bang. then they will talk about all the choices you can make and replay the same mission stealthy wealthy. both will have the same outcome. the gaming press will hail it as revolutionary and very spectacular.
It's still gonna be better than Death Stranding
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,851
the "gameplay" demonstration will start with a cutscene before moving into generic dialogue choices. then there will be shooty shooty bang bang. then they will talk about all the choices you can make and replay the same mission stealthy wealthy. both will have the same outcome. the gaming press will hail it as revolutionary and very spectacular.
It's still gonna be better than Death Stranding

I take shits more entertaining and with more cohesive narratives than Death Stranding, so....
 

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